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MG MGF Technical - Key Remote FOB

Hi All,

I have only one remote key fob for my car. Recently I bought another one on ebay from the UK.
Mine is a Lucas 3TXA. The one I bought is a 3TXA also.
(used)

Can there be there fequency differences in the same type of lucas key fobs? I think it should be 433Mhz.

I got the dealer to reprogram it to the cars security system, but he advised it would not program.

Checked the battery, thats OK.

Anyone had this problem.?

cheers,
Branko.
Branko

Hi,

can't help at all, but just to say, that i'm in exactly the same position, i only have one key fob, and it fails to lock the car consistently, and ideas?

Cheers

Jak
j larter

There has to be some internal programme difference, I'm sure others cleverer than I will know what, otherwise any fob, when operated will lock/unlock a nearby MG.

Recently, on a TV programme about car security, or lack of, the TV crew and a "reformed" car thief parked themselves in a car park at Heathrow airport using airport transfers tunbridge wells, waited for a "quality" car to arrive. A few minutes later a BMW 7 series pulls in, about 40-50 metres away. The driver locks the car, we see the hazards flash, and walks away.

With the radio scanner in the TV car the frequency is logged, at this point you do not see what happens but a frequency is then immediately re-transmitted and the hazards flash again and the car is open and un-immobilized, they called the owner over who was rather perturbed to say the least.

Adrian
Adrian Clifford

Not sure if this applies to you, but cars built originally for the Japanese market work on the different frequency to the rest. Your dealer might not have thought of this.

Chris
Chris

Guys,

I had the same problem until recently, when I got my F only Fob worked and purchasing a replacement Fob (off eBay) couldn't be reprogrammed by my dealer, which I never understood why. However deciding that the situation was getting worse, I found an advert for Avon Electronics who did after market fobs for Lucas based units and send out a programming pod to plug into the car for 2 mins and the fob will work. The non technical explanation is that the ECU has a number count which must match with the fobs, every time you press the button, number count increases by 1 etc. The programming plug just syncs the fob to the correct number scheme.

After talking to Avon, they programmed the programming unit to reset all my Fobs. All I had to do was plug in the programming unit, and press the lock button 6 times on each fob I wanted to use (including my working unit) Once each fob was programmed, the horn would beep once :o)

After this procedure, my 2 original Fobs all worked, my replacement fob (from eBay, which the dealer couldn't program) worked and the after market fob worked :o)

I think I sent the instructions and description to Rob and Dieter but I can dig out the instructions/contact details if anyone is interested. Cost for the new fob and programming unit was £40. Branko, I had to pay a £50 deposit on the programming unit and I believe that they so send the units overseas.

Cheers

Les


Les Piggot

Hi Jak,
Sounds like it's time to change the battery in the key FOB.

Hi Adrien,
scary stuff. You tryin' to give me nightmares?

Hi Chris,
Mines an English model imported by the MG/Rover dealers in 1998. The frequncy for Australia should be 433Mhz as per the dealer mechanic. But, doing a bit of a search I found this....

http://www.remotekey.co.uk/FAQ.htm

Check out the frequency table on the botton of that page..
Now I am not sure of anything.

Hi Les,
That's great!
Yes, yes, yes. please send any info you can.


My original FOB has on the back:
LUCAS 3TXA KEY

The one I bought has on the back:
LUCAS 3TXA KEY
MPT 1340 W.T.LICENCE EXEMPT

Maybe there is difference?
Anyone know what?


Cheers,
Branko.
Branko

I only have one, but when if fails to open buy a new battery for it, works every time
sarah blunt

Thanks Sarah,
Mine is working OK, its the one that I bought which could not be programmed by the dealer.

I hope that you have your security code handy for your system.
You will need it if your only one goes faulty or the battery goes flat. You can get stranded.

Cheers.
Branko.

Branko

Branko,
Not trying to scare you, saw it myself.

My fob has got: Lucas 17TN KEY
SRD-MPT1340-GB

any help ?

Adrian
Adrian Clifford

Adrian,
Your FOB has a further range than 3TXA, 3TXB and 3TXC.
MPT1340. Interesting. Further investigation required.
Thanks.

Sarah,
here is some good info about EKA (Emergency Key Acess) code.
http://www.remotekey.co.uk/EKA.htm
Time to get a second FOB?

cheers,
Branko.


Branko

Well this confirms it.
http://www.admin.ch/bakom/zdb/zdb_bo_internet_index/zulindex/2910.htm

So its 433 Mhz.


Branko

Hi Branko,

check here for replacements aswell.
http://www.alarmremotes.co.uk/new_page_4.htm
Paul Jameson B.Eng.
Electronics Engineer / Director
Avon Automotive Diagnostics Ltd
Tel +44 (0) 1789 450808
Fax +44 (0) 1789 773262
*Rov 2 Fob* model.
Can be adapted to the ECU without a visit to Testbook.

Some more about the remotes
http://www.mgfcar.de/alarm_blipper/eblipper.htm

HTH
Dieter
Dieter K.

Branko,
Don't you ever sleep ?

Look out for us on TV Monday, the show of support at Longbridge, see general threads, tell us what coverage, if any, in Australia.

Adrian
Adrian Clifford

TV very little coverage only on pay TV. Radio ABC our BBC were the first to mention. Every thing at the moment is either the Pope or that wedding using wedding cars tunbridge wells nothing important!.
Andrew Regens

Hi Dieter,

yes that does help, and thanks for the info. It makes for good reading. (well for some of us anyway).
Dieter, please translate "Alarmsender MK1 bis Mitte 99". Is it "Alarmsender MK1 before 99" or something like that?

Hi Adrian,

I'm a bit of a night owl I'm afraid.
They say you need less sleep when u r over 50 don't they?

I watch lots of news but not too much is presented on free to air TV at all.

cheers,
Branko
Branko

I have an update about the no-go key fob.

I must extend a big thanks to David from Alarm Remotes http://www.alarmremotes.co.uk/index.htm for being so helpful and all this from the other side of the world.

I supplied him with the circuit board and transistor details and he advised that my original FOB works on 315Mhz (as does the car ecu) and not 433Mhz as thought. My new one works on 433Mhz.

That is why the dealer could not get it working.
The strange thing though is that the dealer said the car is on 433Mhz. I will go back and see him again and confirm all this next week.

Oh, FYI, if you have a 1239 transistor then its 315Mhz. If you have a 1207 transistor then its 433Mhz.

(For the electronically challanged, its the small
round silver component on the battery side of the 3TXA fob).

Cheers,
Branko.




Branko

Andrew,
that's right with "Alarmsender MK1 before 99"
3TXA/3TXB/3TXC all have the same principals of working. The latest for mgtf? I thinkn have the 'transponder' included.
However there's no relation according to the frequency.
See what Branko found with help of David from Alarm Remotes :-)
(Another update to my webside required and just done)

@Branco,
http://www.mgfcar.de/alarm_blipper/3txa_front.jpg

Regards
Dieter
Dieter K.

Dieter,

I had found this out from David but I forgot to add it to my last post. I think it could be useful info for someone.

______________________________________
The only way to tell reliably what frequency the fob uses is by the number on SAW resonator on the PCB. A lot of MGF's in the UK are 315 MHZ. But the majority are 433Mhz.

if you have a Lucas 5AS security ECU you will see on the label a black 25mm circle with a letter inside it.
Letters M/K/S/T all denote 315 mhz units. (There may be also be others)
Letters A/H/L/R all denote 433 mhz units.
______________________________________

PS. it was me re: "Alarmsender" :-)


Cheers,
Branko
Branko

:)
Yes, great hint. I think the letter in circle frame is the easiest mark to identify, which do I own :)
http://www.mgfcar.de/alarm_blipper/ywc105330_3861.jpg

This is 'A' :)
433MHz
Dieter K.

Looks like the info has got some truth in it. (Phew!)
I'll check mine out tonight after work.

I'll be selling my fob on ebay soon. (with details)
Then buying one from US or NZ.

At least now I know what I actually need and don't need.

cheers,
Branko
Branko

Good work guys - a really interesting thread! :o)
Rob Bell

Les wrote " The non technical explanation is that the ECU has a number count which must match with the fobs, every time you press the button, number count increases by 1 etc."

So if you have 2 fobs, then would they not get out of sync so only one would work?

GrahamH

HI GUYS, IVE LOST MY FOB FOR MY MGTF IVE GOT THE EKA CODE BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO WORK DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IT COULD BE? SOME1 TOLD THAT U HAVE A PUT A EXTRA DIGIT IN ON THE SECOND AND FORTH CODE. IS THAT CORRECT?
JASON

Rob,
Yes it makes for good reading.

Graham,
Too long to explain, but I found If I ask "How Stuff Works", I go here. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-entry2.htm Great site for almost anything.
Save to your favorites as it does come in handy.


Oh almost forgot, Ian Jameson from http://www.remotekey.co.uk/FAQ.htm told me that if Canada 1984 is written on the fob, it will be a 315mhz, the correct frequency for Australia, but the cases are sometimes replaced and this can mix things up.

Thanks Ian.

Cheers,
Branko.



Branko

Graham,

I sort assumed that the ECU batched the numbers, atleast thats how I would have done it (and do it else where for Database transactions)

FobA : 1 -> 10
FobB : 11 -> 20

Once press 10 has been made, ECU allocated the next available block, hence the Fobs should never require to be re-sync'ed, but then why did my Fob stop workking but after re-programming (sync-ing) start working immediately? Didn't even have to change the battery lol

Anyway stated, not a technical explanation but thats how it got explained to me by Paul @ Avon for my small brain to comprehend

Cheers

Les

Les @ Work

Dieter,
Last night I checked my ECU and it has a nice big "K" in a circle....that makes it at 315Mhz.
Looks like I'll be looking for a another fob from the US as they use 315Mhz as well.

Jason,
you don't need to shout, we can hear you. :-)

We would not know your EKA code. You will need to go to someone who has a "testbook" system or similar and extract the code. Maybe the code you have is not correct?

The EKA code is 4 digit number.
Have you followed this procedure?
http://www.remotekey.co.uk/EKA.htm

Cheers,
Branko.
Branko

sorry for shouting
the eka code is 6757 but it doesn't seem to work at all. does it have to be done really slowly
jason

Jason

1/- Don't publish your 'unique' code - any 'tea-leaf' reading this will now be able to access your car - ask Mike Plumsted (the webmaster) to remove that!

2/- The extra digit thingy you mentioned earlier applied only (I thought) to some earlier *F*s.

3/- The instructions for putting in the code should be in your security hand book and NO it should not be done really slowly and in fact must be done within a certain amount of time.
Ted Newman

But don't forget that the dealers sometimes change the EKA codes when selling cars on, so that the previous owners can't re-posess the cars. (Took me a long time to find that one out!). There is apparently a standard procedure/method of doing this, which I am aware of, but won't repeat here!

Mike H
Mike Hall

bit of a muppit aint i can u please remove my code.does that mean the code wont work?
jason

some1 take my code off please
jason

Jason,

don't be too concerned about your EKA code.
As you have logged in as a non-member there are limited details available. All we know so far is Jason in London has a non working EKA code and no remote FOB. :-)
Bit hard to track down your car with that.
However, when you do get a get a chance, you may want to get the EKA code changed. It looks like it doesn't work anyway.
When you get a new remote FOB do the EKA change at the same time. Any good dealer or remote place can reset the ecu and provide a remote. See 2 such places listed above.

The Web master is most likely not reading this thread, so you will need to contact him directly via email. Go to the link below and Mike Plumsted has an email there. (Top left of page)
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mginfo.html


Mike,

Good tip.!
Come on, you can tell me can't you??????? please...... LOL.


HTH
Branko.

Branko

Branko

You have mail.

Mike H
Mike Hall

Jason,
also found this.

Some of the Rover immobiliser ECU's have an internal program error. To overcome it do the following: add 2 to the second and fourth digit of the EKA code.

Example: EKA code 2571 use 2773

Give it a go by following the steps below.

The driver's door lock has a micro switch upon it. For the EKA (Emergency Key Access) code to work this micro switch must be operational. I would suggest that you do the following:

Insert the key into the driver's door lock and turn to the locked and hold it there for 5 seconds or so. Let the key return to the upright or central position.

Now enter the first number of the EKA code by turning the key to the unlock position and back to the upright position the number of times for the first digit.

Repeat for the second digit but this time turn to the locked position.

Repeat for the third digit to the unlocked position.

Repeat for the fourth digit to the locked position.

Turn key to the unlock position and look at the immobiliser light on the dash. If it has stopped flashing then the car should start.

If the sequence is repeated 3 times with no success then the system will lock for about 10 minutes.

I have sometimes come across a worn knob or button on the micro switch. Moving the key just past the upright position as you enter each number may help


HTH
Branko.
Branko

thanks Branko

ive tired the codes over and over again the light does stop flashin after the forth code and unlocking the car. but soon as you open the door the light comes back on. do u think its because i dnt have the orignal key as its a copy??
jason

sorry 1 more thhing the eka code was given to me by mg so do u think it might be the wrong 1?
jason

Jason,

Maybe there is a fault with the security system.

Take your car to the MG dealer and get them to connect up their "testbook" system.
You will need to provide them proof that you are the owner.
They will then check the code and give it to you.
While you are there, ask them to test it on your car.
If there is a fault with the alarm they should tell you from the codes that they will pull.

Good luck.
Branko.
Branko

morning

ok good news the eka code worked. had to do the code on the door and then leave the key in the ignition for 10 mins. the flashing led goes off and ur on ur way
JASON

Jason,

Good One!
Interesting procedure.
"leave the key in the ignition for 10 mins"

Whats all that about.? Do you need to just have the key in or do you turn it? or?

Sounds like you now need to get yourself a 2 button Lucas remote Fob and have it programmed to the car.
Seach on <alarm remote fob> in ebay..I'm sure you'll find something.

Cheers,
Branko.


Branko

put the key in teh ignition turn it once and leave for 10 mins after that the led will stop flashing. but everytime i lock the car and try to start it again it wont. have to do the eka code thing everytime
jason

Jason,

using the EKA code method is really designed to be used in emergencies and not for everyday use.

cheers,
Branko.

Branko

i know that but i cant move the car yet as sum1 has stolen my spare and front wheel lol
jason

Oh my g*d!!

How the heck did they get to your spare and get the front wheel off?
No lock nuts?

MGTF? what year?


Branko

Branko

god knows mate no damage was done to the car but those 2 things wer missing when i came back to the car after 2 days of leaving outside my mates place
jason

Just received in the mail a 2 button Lucas remote 17TN delivered today from the USA.
Will get the local Rover dealer to program it to the car's ecu.

I found the local dealer really great as they only charged me a small amount to initally get the first remote I bought programmed but it would not, as it was the wrong frequency. (433Mhz)
I will go back and now and try with this other one which is at 315Mhz.
He said he will not charge me again!
The dealer is in Melbourne and is called Zagame in Richmond. The service manager was very helpful and friendly. When I pickup the car up last time, he had installed a pair of front and rear licence plate protectors and left a nice metal case of musk sweets in the glove box.
I was very impressed with the service.

Cheers.
Branko.

Branko

I have a nissan 200sx. I purchased a 3txa fob from ebay as i hvelost both my key and fob. Is is true that the code needed to program the fob is written on the eprom inside the ecu. if so where is the ecu located on my car.
Richie

On a 200sx.....?

Sorry, no idea
Branko

Hip Hip, Hooray!!! (well, at least I'm excited!!)

I can finally post my result to this thread I started.
Today I picked up my car from Zagame in Richmond.
The dealer programmed it to the car and now I have 2 working remote fods instead of one.

The fob I had bought on Ebay from NY USA and it cost me all up $20AUS. (inc Delivery)

Dealer only charged me $30AUS. They did not charge me the second time (the first fob I bought was a UK one and does not work on my Aus delivered car (315Mhz) so I bought the lads some beers to enjoy after work. (I think they appreciated that)

I certainly have learned a lot about the luca fobs and I hope others have gained something on the way as well.

Cheers,
Branko.

Branko

my imobiliser will not go off my rover 400 i have changed the alarm ecu box to match with the same fob i have just bought them together the door are closing and and red light on the dash is going out but the car will not start
andrew

This thread was discussed between 08/04/2005 and 24/04/2005

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