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MG MGF Technical - K&N filter needs fresh air
| I'm considering fitting a K&N 57i air filter soon. I went to Rob's updated site (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robmidgleybell/index.htm) and it convinced me to get the filter. As it's explained, the colder (denser) the air comes to the filter, the better it works. That's why cool air ducts are to be used from under the car to the filter. My question is : can't we take some of the fresh air coming from the air intakes on each side of the car instead of attaching the cool air ducts under the car ? (I have no idea on where the fresh air is going to from the air intakes) Jérôme 121 CCK 92 |
| Jérôme |
| Jerome, you can ... and you can make loads of other experiance on getting the air colder. See http://cliotec.faithweb.com/MGF/ (only in German, but pictures are selfexplaining) click on [Luftfilter] for the side intake version and some interesting links. But dont get surprised because our friend Oliver used not the 57i kit, but 'only' a standard K&N filter. BTW.. Rob, something heard from Lesley regarding the MKII K&N kit ? Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Thanks for the link Dieter ! I think that's the way I'll do it. What does his conclusion mean ? ("Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr!! Dieser Filter hat KEINEN TÜV!!") Jérôme |
| Jérôme |
| ;-) forget it, typical German :) free translated: No warranty that all written data are right. This modification is not approved by the German MOT (TUEV) According to the 57i Set this TUEV-term is no longer true. The germans can purchase now an EC-Approval certificate for DM 30 !! ;-) at 'Racimex' (german importer)... Ehmm, ... nobody known recently, who purchased this paper ... LOL .. so no data online availiable :) Have fun and go for a nice 'RROOAaaaaar'. Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Be careful, this question has been asked many times before ... if you check not much air actually flows through the side air vents ... they are really more useful for letting air OUT. This is why the induction tubing dangles beneath the car in order to scoop air as the vehicle moves forward. Gaz P15VVC |
| Gaz |
| I know the K&N Panel filter is not as effective as the cone according to Rob's graphs. However, the setup on my F is as follows: K&N panel, bypass the resonance box and ducted directly to the NS intake pod. Personally i found this setup very effective, for the simple reason that at no time does any warm air mix with the intake air, as it does with the cone setup, where the ducting pipes simply blow there cool charge over the cone which is in a hot environment. Nick |
| Nick |
| Hick, I have no experiance with the panel filter, but your bypass version sounds much better then the standard long pipe to the cars rear area. Some chappies here did for a first check wether the sound can be approved nothing else the only removing the small flexi pipe between filter box (rear side) and that long hose. (not recommended in Summer !!) BTW I found this pipe really 'strangled' at my 96 MPI by a cable tie when I removed the filter box some weeks ago: see defects side, far below: row 14 http://www.fortunecity.de/hockenheim/senna/253/defects/index.htm dk http://mgf.tech.here.de |
| Dieter |
| Instruction on putting the induction tubes on the side intake look interesting. Dieter, I translated that webpage http://cliotec.faithweb.com/MGF/filter.html through altavista babelfish. Got most of the understanding, but just wanted to confirm one points which didn't come through the german-english translation well. Is the path from the engine bay to the side air duct fairly clear of obstructions for feeding the induction tube? Did K&N ever look into installing the induction tubes in the side air ducts? Or did they also deem that there wasn't sufficient airflow there? |
| Mike |
| Dieter, I forgot to say that it sounds pretty awesome too! Nick |
| Nick |
| Hi Mike, I just had a look at that 'translation problem section'... <grin> ... german slang.. and a try from a young german chappy to be perfectly .. No chance for altavista :( ---------- >Für die Kaltluftzufuhr die beiden Kreuzschlitzschrauben des fahrerseitigen Lüftungsgitters vor dem Hinterrad lösen und Gitter abnehmen. remove side intake (2 srews) on co-drivers side ( if RHD) > Jetzt den Luftschlauch von oben in den Motorraum einführen, bis er anstößt. Move air hose into engine bay from above 'until it stucks' > Nun folgt ein ziemlich fummeliger Teil, der sicher für einige Kratzer und blaue Flecke an den Armen sorgt. from now it gets fiddly and you may get some scratches at your own arms. > Aufgebockt oder auf einer Grube geht es vielleicht leichter. Its more easy if the car is lifted > Auf jeden Fall muß man jetzt versuchen, den Schlauch irgendwie von hinten in die Luftöffnung reinzubringen; Anyway, you should try to lead the hose 'in 'any way' from behind to the side intake .. > hat man es geschafft, dann zusehen, daß der Schlauch einen Abstand von etwa 10cm zum Seitengitter hat. Damit der Schlauch in der Öffnung gut fixiert ist habe ich ihn einfach mit einer Blechschraube im schwarzen Kunststoff der Öffnung unten festgeschraubt If you got it ;-) then keep a distance of app. 10cm to the sideintake and fasten the hose end with a metalscrew. ------------- LOL .. hope this helps :) I dont think that K&N tried this fiddly works, because it can't be 'sold' to a 'normal' customer. Neither I dont know wether it works on increasing temperature. Oliver promised to have temperature measures, but this MGF belongs to his father. And he has only low access to it. No wonder ehy? Its an MGF :) Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Gaz, Youre quite right, for the cone filter it wouldnt work having the pipe at the side intake. But with the panel filter it works fine, as the intake pipe is large enough to vitually block any air going out and around it! And the engine is drawing as much air as it needs directly through this pipe from outside of the hot engine bay area. Nick |
| Nick |
| >I forgot to say that it sounds pretty awesome too! LOL, in reverse from English to German its equal 'terrible' but funny !! :) If I want to look up single words in both directions I often use and may recommend http://dict.leo.org/ Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Hello gentlemen What I understand is that not enough air is coming through the side air intakes for a cone filter. So does it mean that K&N cone filter needs more air than the panel filter ? In that case, it's not worth spending too much time trying to translate Oliver's page from German to French ;o) Will the conclusion be : "the K&N cone filter needs MORE fresh air" ? Jérôme 121 CCK 92 |
| Jérôme |
| Jérôme, sorry probably multilingual misunderstandings ? :) Anyway, The engines air consumtion, measured in may be Liters/minute relates only to the revs and the engine type (i.e. 1.8 Liters). To valuate are also the actual athmospheric pressure and temperature. These parameters tell how much air in gramm/liter are included. (poor explained, but I miss some better physical spellings) Now, the airfilter can be seen as a more or less strange damper in this system which has influence on decreasing the airflow. OK, some small influences can be seen according to a resonating air cylinder, which provides a kind of airblast into the intake system. That relates to my humble opinion :) So, for me is the conclusion: >"the K&N cone filter needs MORE fresh air" ? is not right, but: any airfilter with less damping then the standard panel filter can provide MORE fresh air. At our MGF is this any large airfilter with a connection hose diameter of 70mm :) |
| Dieter |
| Jérome, E-mail moi à l'adresse ci-dessus et je te donnerai un petit conseil. ;-) Francis |
| Francis |
| Dieter, I did e-mail Lesley regarding the Mk2 K&N kit and she's looking in to it for us. No news yet. Regarding cold air supplies, this has attracted a number of comments and thoughts. From the initial reports that Spencer Planton put onto these boards regarding development of the 57i, K&N DID look into taking cold air supply from the side 'pods'. Unfortunately they were found not to flow particularly well (ie. air was not efficiently ducted through them into the engine bay). I am not sure as to the extent of the tests and whether they were performed with the car on the move- so maybe there are some question marks over this. However, the under body position for the cooling ducts was found to be ideal: Graeme Bishko has logged intake temperatures in a moving car and found them to be effective. For a cone filter installation, this is a solution that has been shown to work. It should also be said that drawing the air through the side duct with an *enclosed* filter induction system is very likely to work well, although the barometric intake pressure maybe low depending on whether the aerodynamics around the duct opening encourages air entry or air withdrawal. More tests are needed I think. With regard to the standard air intake position, in fact the boys at Rover have been cleverer than we have given them credit: Paul Sharpe has done some engine bay temperature recordings and found that that area of the engine bay is the coolest because of the natural air circulation when the vehicle is on the move. So if an engine bay air uptake is required- this is the best place from which to do it. What it isn't (quite) is outside ambient temperature. I believe that the best solution is an enclosed filter with ambient air intake (as Nick has strived to achieve). I personally would go for a cone filter (proven benefit)- and enclose that. I believe that Roger is working on a different approach. It will be interesting to hear about his final solution. Hmm, that's enough of my ramblings for now! Rob |
| Robert Bell |
| Hello! Apologies for the delay on the info about the Generation 2 kits. I now have a US catalogue which has these kits listed. They are presently only made for certain US vehicles,Chevrolet and Dodge being the main ones. This is straight from the catalogue: "K&N's Generation 2 represents yet another evolution in air take technology.These break-through engineering designs contain all the performance improvements you expect from K&N - but with even greater benefits. What is truly remarkable about the Gen 2 kits is that they consistently achieve incredible horsepower gains even under varying conditions. This process is accomplished by replacing the entire air intake tract, thus isolating the cold air and directing the air through this truly unique chamber delivery system. We have dyno test results showing torque increases through the towing ranges of no less than 23 ft lbs." The picture shows a K&N cone filter two thirds enclosed in an air box and some of the kits include heat shields if needed. It does not explain where the cold air feed comes from but I would imagine its taken from the top of the air box where it is not enclosed. K&N have also experimented with changing the design of the cold air feed pipe and the way its fed but its top secret at the moment and even with money bribes they won't tell me the results. The Gen 2 kits will be coming to the UK eventually but I don't know when. Hope this helps, Lesley |
| Lesley |
| :o) Lesley, thanks for your kindly information. I think we have enough stuff now to let this nice noisy empowering game go on. My suggestion for other 'airfilter gamblers'. Do not wait for the Generation 2 filter, but have your fun now, because 'we' surely will find any upgrade opportunities later on if it gets to market. :) Cheers Dieter PS. .. just thinking on a heatshield design :) |
| Dieter |
| Thanks for the info Lesley. Rather alot of, er, embellishment in that advertisement isn't there? ;o) I guess itsuits the American market. From the description, it sounds identical to the existing 57i kit (ie replacement of the entire intake tract)- the only exception being the heat shield. As Dieter says, might as well go for the current kit for the time being. Rob |
| Robert Bell |
| >, it sounds identical to the existing 57i kit I do not think so, Rob. (Lets keep the thread warm in this cold long winter nights) Its 'top secret' said Lesley :) and I suppose they use a special material 'secret' for the connection hose may be some with ceramic or carbon fabric for a better temperature isolation. Such materials are expensive, but I am sure it will be a great value for the MGF ;o) Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| >>Lets keep the thread warm in this cold long winter nights<< :o) And why not? >>Its 'top secret' said Lesley :) and I suppose they use a special material 'secret' for the connection hose may be some with ceramic or carbon fabric for a better temperature isolation.<< Maybe! Hmm, we could speculate upon the ideal properties that an induction system should have? The alternative mounting positions for the cooling ducts sounds interesting. My cooling tubes direct cool air both to the front of the filter and to the rear... the rear of the filter gets quite warm if the ducts are mounted conventionally as per instructions. Rob |
| Robert Bell |
| >Hmm, we could speculate upon the ideal properties that an induction system should have? Rob, lets do it in 2000. The wife is just crying because I should think on our vacanies. (Luggage etc.) Lift off on sunday, being back 'next year', hopefully no 'cold air' on the canaries :) Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Have a good holiday Dieter! Any room in the hand luggage for a fellow MGF'er? ;o) |
| Robert Bell |
| >Any room in the hand luggage for a fellow MGF'er? ;o) Ehmmm, sorry, it will be filled with 'safety-fast' issues, a large dictionary and some 1:43 MGF models (BRG+flamered)for learning some true English and playing car park .. while getting a little coloured by the sun :) Hmmm, just have the taste of fish and loads of red wine in my brain. I think I'll need it as substitute for some BBS-LOL's. CU Dieter PS yupdidoodidoo, 3 days left :o) Lanzarote I'm coming. |
| Dieter |
| Hi Dieter You lucky thing. I've just come back from Tenerife AND I WANT TO GO BACK sob sob sob. Where in Lanzarote are you going to be eating lots, drinking red wine and going brown?? Mmmmm, Sangre de Torro, paella, mmmmmm, sun, warmth, mmmmmm. I'm not jealous at all!! Have a great time. Stefan |
| Stefan Gibney |
| >Where in Lanzarote are you going.. Ehhhm, no idea recently :-/ the wife did the bookings. I wanted it calm and near the beach at the south-east coast. Stefan, if you or someone else ever wants to join 'La Palma' :o) then drop me a line. I know a friendly F'er there from our german BBS. He owns the only MGF VVC on La Palma and we support him and the car by only internet activities recently, because there is no dealer on La Palma. |
| Dieter |
| Hi, taking into account all the above information I figure out that this should be the ideal solution: buy one of the new K&N X-stream filters (the ones with an additional top opening) and connect a fresh-air pipe from under the car directly to the top of the filter. This way the cool air is blown directly into the intake and doesn't get mixed up with the warm air from the engine bay. If my estimations are anything to go by this setup should give a constant oversupply of cool air above a speed of about 30 - 40 mph, even at maximum revs. You could also have a second pipe blowing cool air over the rest of the filter, but I suspect the additional benefit should be negligible. This should cost you considerably less than a standard K&N kit and should be even more effective, the only drawback beeing "no TUEV" (at least in Germany) =:-( What do you think? |
| Nikolaj |
| Hi Nicolaj, >the only drawback beeing "no TUEV" (at least in Germany) =:-( :) please don't bore the guys with the 'some german F'ers over sensibility' ... Anyway, did you follow the 'racimex' approval sh*t (sheet?) discussion in the german board ? 30DM ... and who of them will find differences to the Mark1 57i kit... :-P According to X-stream filters, sounds very interesting ! Can you please add internet sources for more informations ? or send something to my home address ? :o) Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Hi Dieter An F on La Palma hey?? That sounds cool. Do you know if there are any F dealers over in the Caneries?? I'd be happy to join the Canarian F discussions. What language do you talk in?? Stefan |
| Stefan Gibney |
| >Do you know if there are any F dealers over in the Caneries?? LOL .. No dealer, no support, nothing :) Only the German BBS and access to all workshop manual chapters. His name is Ruediger E. Discussion in German is recently down. I think Ruediger has something better to do there instead of chatting in a BBS :o) . But I have his address, because I sent him 'something' two weeks ago. :) >What language do you talk in. Only german entries. Nobody bothers multilingual entries, but the true english language one is HERE. Cheers Dieter German located BBS http://www.info-serve.de/foren/read.php3?Fname=MGFTechnik&view=date Who may be the Admin there... :) |
| Dieter |
| >>Do you know if there are any F dealers over in the >>Caneries?? > >LOL .. No dealer, no support, nothing :) "No dealer, no support" sounds logical to me. "A dealer, no support" sounds like Rover to me. "A dealer, great support" sounds like it should be. Have a nice holiday Dieter. Is it for a possible Y2K-problem that you are running away from your F? <grin> Erik |
| Erik |
| <g> > No dealer, no support" sounds logical to me. . . . Erik, may I add some terms, because its so nice. "No dealer, great support" sounds like some fellow F'ers from a BBS !! "No dealer, No support" sounds like a call for F'ers from BBS support :) No, I ever do the opposite of that what other people do. If other people sell stocks, I buy some. If other people do snow holiday, I do summer holiday. If other people go to their dealer, I do it myself. A little 'revolutioneer' ;-) 1968... Eyh... :o) Dieter |
| Dieter |
| > No, I ever do the opposite of that what other people do. > If other people sell stocks, I buy some. > If other people do snow holiday, I do summer holiday. > If other people go to their dealer, I do it myself. Yep, but just like us, you bought a MGF ;o) |
| Jérôme |
| Unfortunately, I only know a german Link where you can have a look at the new "X-stream" filter, but the pictures tell enough about the advantages I think :) http://www.racimex.de/produkte/auto_kn_xstream.html |
| Nikolaj |
| Ah Yes, our german 'general importer'. All around, in design terms is the top end a filter plane too. I miss the diameter to check wether it fits to our MGF intake system. (which is 70mm) They only state connectivity to Weber carburetors as follows First column signs the Carburator Typ, which now needs a reference to the diameter. Who knows where to find this 'Weber' dimensions ? May be Roger !! :) The measure in mm signs the hight of the filter. DCOE centre 78 mm E-9247 56-9346 DCOE centre 103 mm E-9248 56-9351 DCO-SP centre 78 mm E-9247 56-9349 DCO-SP centre 103 mm E-9248 56-9354 Job for next year, (on my side) I recommend to keep data on local PC, because the archive seams to be delayed. Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter |
| <g> soory a little confused, but here are standard types for diameter 69mm (rubberhose will fit to the MGF) Flanschdurchmesser: 69 Form Durchmesser unten in mm Durchmesser oben in mm Höhe in mm Flansch Typ Art.-Nr. K 118 102 115 mittig RX-5021 --- So if someone wants to try it, go for the type RX-5021 :) I'll order one in Cologne next year :) should be about 30GBP IMO, not more ! |
| Dieter |
| Dieter, Can you confirm that K&N cone filter RU-3120 has the good size to fit to the F ? See http://www.knfilters.co.uk/kn_hi/taperuni.htm Jérôme 121 CCK 92 |
| Jérôme |
| Jerome, in my personal humble opinion loads of different filters fit. :) The above has enough 'air through put' (calculated by a chappy, on base of K&N formulars). That chappy found in general that nearly each cotton fabric based filter with the same or larger filter plane then the standard panel filter provides enough air for the K-engine. Thats all. http://home.t-online.de/home/dkoen/mgf_airfilter.htm Covers different availiable airfilters. To make things clear. I do not want to recommend anything and I surely have not the skills to valuate wether this one is better then that one. Wether from K&N or Piper and 6 or seven more companies. IMO 'airfilter' is a nice and cheap game to improve noise and power of our little MGF. And I LIKE IT :) because nothing bad can happen if the parts are installed in right manner. According to X-stream filters and my above posted data: K&N has also a type which could replace the Filter on the standard 57i Rubberhose on the rubberhose outer diameter. No idea about the diameter, may be the 76mm can be used. Rubber hose diameter 76 mm Form/ upper dia,/ lower dia.,/ hight. T 113 152 130 mm RX-5015 Costs 163DM (app 54GBP) as upgrade for the 57i Set, if the friends who already cut the hose by half want to try something new :) Cheers Dieter PS Have fun, try it !! |
| Dieter |
| Rob mentioned earlier that I have been working on some mods by retaining an enclosed filter set up. The following is a transcript of results to date... I have for some months been working on a number of different enclosed airfilter options, that would ideally achieve the excellent results of the K&N 57I kit but by using an enclosed filter so noise is not an issue. I personally don't want the intake noise the cone filter gives in this application, but, for the record, I do approve of the noise the cone filter gives on my tuned injected V8 MGB! I have the advantage of unlimited time to run my car on Pete Burgess's rolling road, unfortunately that time may be unlimited, but my time is! However I have over the last few months tried a number of different configurations aside from the 57i set up with some interesting results. Firstly my car is an MPi. The filter used for this is the same as found on the VVC with 25 bhp more at peak and also the 200bhp Turbo T16 engined Rover 200/400 models. Bear in mind that use of a cone filter placed in a cold airflow on the T16 engine gives an average 8% power increase, as tested on three different vehicles. This equates to 16bhp, with a further average 7%power increase coming from exhaust changes. The VVC with the 57i cone filter conversion shows an improvement of some 15 bhp that equates to a very useful 10.3% increase. The MPi when fitted with the 57i kit gives a reduced 8 bhp increase that equates to a still useful 6.7% increase. These results give a clue as to what is happening. The T16 and the MPi are giving very similar results, yet the VVC is outstanding. This on an identical size panel filter element. Clearly this points towards ancillary differences influencing the results, and in the case of the MGF I would point straight to the addition of the resonator box and the position of the 'cold' air pick up. ('Cold' air pick up in this application seems a contradiction!!) The T16 has a direct cold air feed pipe that attaches to the area in front of the left side headlamp, which is a cold air area. Cold air has always been a high priority to achieve reasonable power and many a performance air filter has seen much of it's potential gains thrown away because it draws air from it's immediate vicinity which is often 20 or more degrees hotter than ambient. A rough guide shows a change of 3 degrees C will see a change of 1% power. My first changes were done in the summer soon after I had the F and this involved removing the 'cold' air pick up, removing the 'toilet bend' air connection between the air filter body and resonator. Then connecting the cold air pick up direct to the airfilter body and re-routing the pipe to draw air from the general area by the nearside body vent. Just as described by Nick. The results of this were to see an average 10 degree C drop (measured) in intake temp over all the tests done, before and after. This gave a clear peak torque advantage of 9 lb.ft. This really can be felt Next session was on Pete Burgess's rollers with the previous figures gained from another rolling road. Pete’s rollers gave slightly higher figures (7%), but as they were linear across the whole engine range, some useful comparisons can be made. Round 2. Fit a longer cold air pick up (3’) and create a plastic ‘Bell Mouth’ to fit the open end to ease airflow. (OE hose about 18" long.) Result 3 bhp less at peak 2 less at 3000 rpm. (about 3.5 lb.ft torque loss) Subjective - pulls well low down and felt quite strong, but this masked by the fact that more power was lost at the top end. Assessed as a failure. Round 3. Remove air filter top and run with pipe with open end. Results, same mid range power as round 2 and a loss of another 2 bhp at peak. However the engine held power at higher revs better and felt like it 'wanted to rev its nuts off’! Air turbulence around the mouth of the pipe significant. Adding of a crude Bell Mouth regained the lost 2bhp at peak. Clearly the addition of the K&N Cone filter would have smoothed airflow into the throttle area and I expect that similar results from the famed filter tests would be seen. Assessed as just interesting data, all losses in practice. Round 4. Refit the airfilter box top and run with element removed and no pipe connected to the filter box. Results very good mid range with the 'lost' 2 bhp found again. The top end though showed a loss of 4 bhp compared to the original set up. Top end revs well like Round 3. Assessed as more interesting data and showing that the filter actually does have an 'air smoothing' function. Round 5 revert to original modified set up of the OE cold air pipe attached direct to the filter box and picking up air in the general area of the left vent. With a K&N panel filter replacement and use of the bell mouth for the open end of the hose. Results slightly improved mid range again, but only about 1 bhp, but 6 bhp more at peak, crisper throttle response and felt clearly stronger. Assessed as a success. Noise levels only slightly increased, but what noise is present is more purposeful. For reference I also did several other tests that proved inconclusive. One was to ensure that all air was drawn through the left-hand vent with the longer pipe. There was no difference on the rolling road and in normal driving, but there was a clear Maestro EFi intake roar from the left side of the car, clearly audible from inside the car with the hood down. (Not surprising really, as it was a cold air pick up from an EFi!) I may have a lot of connections with the FWD MGs, but this is not a sound I really want to introduce! Assessed as a failure. The progress on the adoption of an alternative filter box has stalled due to space limitations. It would require too many changes and the gains at best would be another 2 or 3 bhp. Finally there is the issue on fuel consumption and any changes that may arise. There certainly isn’t a significant difference to note, but with the test period rolling into the colder autumn and winter periods, average fuel consumption rises anyway. This is something that will have to be measured over a longer period, but I don’t think that when driven in similar road conditions in a similar style will show much difference. The probability is that the extra power will be used more frequently and this will be reflected in reduced MPG. To summarise, the advantages of the modifications are clear to see and involve more than just a quick element change. The fact that ancillary changes are needed to obtain the best from the panel filter also helps to show why the 57i cone filter is so good. (See previously published results) Cold and unrestricted airflow is the key to achieving worthwile gains for the MGF. In this MPi application the mid range is clearly given quite a boost and this can be regarded as quite comparable with the results of the 57i kit. At the top end there is not quite the same gains, with about 75% that the 57i achieves. Since this equates to just 2 to 3 bhp I feel that the trade off to a very civilised (just above standard) noise level is well balanced. The big question still to be answered is what would happen with a VVC fitted with the same modifications? I anticipate that the same pattern and proportional gains would be seen, but as with anything relating to tuning actual results can and do often differ considerably from what is anticipated. Differences between like cars also adds variation so until many others have done the same mods and found the same sort of advantages what I found can only be used as a guide as to what might be seen on another car. Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| Salut Jerome. Mon anglais est un peu limite,mais j'ai cru comprendre que le kit est vendu avec une prise d'air dynamique.D'apres moi avec le filtre(panel)KN,l'air arrive idealement et il a la temperature exterieure qui est plus fraiche que celle dans le compartiment moteur.Par contre avec le kit,il prend un volume d'air plus important,mais moins frais donc moins dense.Reste a savoir si les tubes venant soit de la prise d'air laterale,soit du dessous de la voiture sont suffisantes pour compenser avec la chaleur du compartiment moteur.D'apres les courbes de puissance et de couple chez KN,le kit est beaucoup plus performant.Mais c'est pas recommande pour le moteur de lui injecter de l'air chaud.Je n'est pas bien compris ce qu'a dit Roger,mais si ca peut m'aider dans ce choix difficile dit le moi.J'espere que tu es Francais,et non un Anglais de passage,pour comprendre la langue.Merci pour ta future reponse(si possible sur mon e-mail) |
| Benjamin |
| I have tried the X - stream style K&N filter on both of my tuned V8 B's in place of the chrome lid. I thought it would improve the airflow. Sorry to tell you it made no difference on either car!. Happy New Year. Dieter, Gluck im neuen jahr! Jerome, Bonne chance dans la nouvelle annee! |
| robert pulleyblank |
| Pardon Benjamin, je n'ai pas bien marquer votre correspondence. Je veux vous souhaiter aussi " Bonne chance dans la nouvelle annee. Si Jerome ne peut pas repondre a votre questions, je vais essayer - si je n'ai pas oublier tout ce que j'ai apprendre a lecole! Un Anglais "en passage" en Floride! |
| robert pulleyblank |
| Father Christmas brought me a K & N and what a difference. Thanks Rob for the detailed fitting instructions. If anyone is thinking of fitting one just go ahead and do it. Pick up is better especially pushing it in third to around 6,000 although the fuel consumption must have gone down slightly 'cos I've just got to put my foot down to hear that roar at about 4,500 rpm, sheer music! |
| John |
| Welcome to the K&N club John! Glad to hear that the instructions were of help. My smile still hasn't worn away since fitting the filter some 2 years ago! Cheers Rob http://go.to/mgfgallery |
| Robert Bell |
| >My smile still hasn't worn away since fitting the filter some 2 years ago! <g> and the interesting additional from my side: The wife doesnt bother it in any way. I used the trick to increase the noise step by step :) dk |
| Dieter |
| Thank you Robert for your answer.I try to write in English.But,i don't know which is the best solution between the panel filter and the 57i.I don't understand all the roger's e-mail.Could you do for me a quick explanation in french if it's possible.The 57i is it sell with a cold air induction from left hand side. Bonne et heureuse annee,a bientot benjamin |
| Benjamin |
| The first time the missus drove it with it on she thought the manifold had blown. Bless. |
| John |
| Salut Benjamin, le filtre plat remplace simplement le filtre d'origine dans la boîte à air. Le problème, c'est que la boîte à air a un dessin un peu trop tortueux (pour des raisons d'émissions sonore, ...) et donc, il y a des pertes de charge et des chevaux à gagner. Je me souviens que Rob Bell l'a essayé : bien qu'il ait senti une petite différence, le résultat n'est pas comparable à ce qu'on peut obtenir avec le kit conique 57i, c'est-à-dire un gain de 8 CV sur le 1.8i et de 15 CV sur le VVC (sur la puissance max, bien entendu, pas à tous les régimes). Moi, j'ai un kit 57i depuis qu'il est sorti (en mai-juin 98) et je ne peux que te le recommander. Les différences sont assez sensibles : - le bruit, uniquement sur demande, quand on accélère pied au plancher - la puissance - le moteur monte plus librement dans les tours : au début, j'étais surpris de voir l'aiguille du compte-tours bondir vers la zone rouge ! Le kit 57i est fourni avec 2 longs tuyaux qui vont chercher l'ai frais sous la voiture et l'amèment contre le filtre : plus on vas vite, plus ça souffle. Si ta voiture est basse, ces tuyaux peuvent parfois accrocher le sol. Ne t'en fais pas, les miens sont un peu abimés, mais ils sont toujours à leur place. Le problème de l'entrée d'air latérale, c'est qu'elle n'est pas du tout efficace : des mesures de flux d'air l'ont prouvé. Ce que Roger a essayé, si je me souviens bien, c'es un filtre plat relié plus directement à l'entrée d'air latérale gauche, en utilisant la boîte à air modifiée, et un motange similaire, mais avec un filtre conique enfermé également dans une boîte, plus des tas de variantes. Il me semble que les résultats n'étaient pas meilleurs que ceux du 57i, sauf parfois pour le couple sur certaines plages de régime. Petite remarque : certains ont remarqué que monter directement le filtre conique du 57i sur l'admission (dons sans utiliser le tuyan en caoutchouc) donnait plus de punch à bas régime, mais de moins bons résultats à haut régime, ce qui a été confirmé par des tests : 4 CV en plus au lieu de 8. Il y en donc qui ont recoupé le tuyau en caoutchouc de moitié pour faire un compromis... En résumé : achète un 57i, ça vaut la peine. A +, Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Salut Fabrice, merci beaucoup pour les infos que tu me donnes.Des mon retour en metropole j'en achete un.As-tu fais d'autres modifications sur ta MGF?Moi,je l'ai rabaisse de 4 cm,peint les grilles en alu,et surtout changer le pommeau de levier de vitesse qui est horrible d'origine. Ciao. |
| Benjamin |
| Salut Benjamin, j'ai aussi changé le pommeau de levier de vitesse (Momo alu/cuir), j'ai un filet coupe-vent, un 3ème feu stop et les clignoteurs blancs du modèle 2000. J'avais aussi fait rabaisser la suspension, mais les pneus avant s'usaient horriblement (un train de pneus pour moins de 10.00 km), je l'ai donc fait relever ; de plus, ce n'est pas recommandé de dépressuriser le système hydragas pour rabaisser la voiture, il faut utiliser les "lowering knuckles" et régler très précisément la géométrie. J'ai l'intention de faire tout cela au printemps, en même temps que de nouvelles jantes 16" et plus tard un splitter. Est-ce que ça donne bien les grilles peintes en alu ? Y a-t-il une grosse différence par rapport aux grilles inox "Abingdon" ou "75LE" ? Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Hi everybody and happy new year ! I'm back from holiday in Southern France where I missed my F (I was by plane) Sun was shining but no F, only SLK or Z3 or CLK, but no of them with roof down .... Salut Benjamin, welcome aboard ! Je rentre de vacances et je vois que tu as eu les infos que tu souhaitais. Jérôme 121 CCK 92 |
| Jérôme |
| Salut Fabrice. Peindre les grilles d'origine ca rend tres bien,surtout que la mienne est foncee(racing green 3).Je me demande pourquoi elle n'est pas vendue comme ca.En plus c'est facile a faire,et ca coute pas cher.J'ai mis un pommeau chrome de chez Turbotech je crois,il ressemble dans la forme a celui de la TT.Et le levier de vitesse se trouve raccourcie de 3 cm.Esthetiquement c'est ce qu'il fallait faire.Pour moi,c'est le garage qui me la rabaissee quand je l'ai achetee.Je sais que les trains roulants ont ete regles au petit poil.En tout cas ce garage si connait tres bien sur la mgf.Ils ont meme un catalogue de preparation.J'ai une connaissance au boulot qui a couru en trophe mgf pendant 2 ans.Ils ont eu aucune intervention a faire,ce moteur est tres fiable.Il y avait juste,un boitier,un filtre,un echappament,et un embrayage renforce(tres sollicite en compet',plus les elements de securite).Je compte mettre les clignotants blancs et les lateraux(combien ca t'as coute chez rover pour ceux de l'avant),un windstop,le kit pour rabaisser les sieges(je fais 1,85m et j'ai les genoux trop pres du volant),garnir le volant en cuir,et le kit57i.C'est le plus important.Apres je pense mettre un echappement,et passer en 16".Avec le 17",la correspondance n'est pas bonne pour les pneus(ca tire trop long).Le choix est limite,a part azev,tramont et tsw.Mike satur vends des adaptateurs pour monter des jantes avec un entraxe de 100mm,c'est la solution.Sinon ma mgf a un hardtop(tres pratique en alsace)et la clim'.Parce que a midi dans le sud de la france(je viens de la-bas)tu attrapes une insolation. Ciao. |
| Benjamin |
| Benjamin, les clignoteurs blancs coutent environ 250 FF pour les 4. Attention, il faut acheter le kit, parce que séparément, ils sont + cher... Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
This thread was discussed between 14/12/1999 and 06/01/2000
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