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MG MGF Technical - Lower bulkhead area rattle

Having just re-booked my 2001 Trophy 160 into the dealers for the 5th time, having for the 5th time demonstrated the noise, and for the 5th time having had confirmation that the noise suggests a problem, my patience is running thin… Latest gambit by the head of service (who, having claimed that the noise isn’t there, declined the chance to come and listen for himself) is that it’s simply due to having stiff suspension...grrr! Tempted to name him, but no lets be civil here…

The noise is most noticeable at low speeds, each movement of the suspension (even when very slight) is accompanied by a rattle – not a groan, or a creak, a good old fashioned rattle. This seems to transmit through the steering, and vigorous left-and-right on the steering wheel produces a very similar noise (but only with the engine running). The noise can be reproduced on the stationary car by jerking down on the front bodywork, most effectively on the offside wing. With the bonnet up, jerking down on the inner wing you can feel a contact being carried through the metalwork. Anti roll bar bushes were the first suspects, swapped with no improvement. Hauling out the spare wheel and sticking my head into the recess, I reckon the noise is coming from the area towards the passenger compartment.

Other symptoms noticed recently are increased tramlining (had 4x4 alignment, improved it a bit but still more noticeable than when the car was new), in fact the 4x4 check showed that the front nearside camber & castor were reading outside of tolerances. The steering doesn’t feel as sharp as it used to, but tyres are a bit shot so not sure if that’s the cause.

Any ideas guys?
Mike

Any ideas?

Loads of them unfortunately :-(

Could be (in no particular order)

Lower shock bushes
Wishbone bushes
loose / corroded knuckle joint
Bonnet hinge
Loose wing brace
Missing wheel arch liner screw
Loose weather strip
Loose bulb in side repeater
Loose glovebox
Windscreen brace

Among others.

Could you describe the rattle a bit more? i.e. is it metallic sounding or could it be plastic tapping? More clues regarding the location would help too, any chance you could narrow it down a bit?

SF
Scarlet Fever

Thanks Andy, you can always be relied upon for some creative thinking...

The noise is metallic, sounds pretty much how you'd expect a loose anti-roll bar mount to sound. Best comparison I can think of is how disc pads sound when the anti-rattle springs are missing - except they're not!

Location sounds like just to the left of the washer reservoir. When it stops raining I'll go out and stick my head in the spare wheel compartment and listen again, see if I can narrow down the location.

Sorry guys, not a terribly exciting post. But I'm going to track down and stop this bloody rattle if it kills me... which if it's the steering about to fall off it could very possibly!
Mike

This update brought to you courtesy of Maglite, Swarfega and TCP (don't ask).

The rattle is free play in something, if I tap the underside of the anti-roll bar in an upwards direction, between the bush and the drop link, it's loudest. No visible movement anywhere, though. I'd say it's coming from the drop link. In fact I'm almost sure. Which is more likely to be the culprit - the drop link, the wishbone or the anti-roll bar?
Mike

if you get 1/2 metre of hose pipe, you can put it up to your ear, and use the other end to almost perfectly find the location. This does require another pair of hands to shake the car.
Will Munns

Thanks Will, I was about to email Dr Rob to see if he could lend me a stethoscope...
Mike

OK, that narrows it down a bit Mike. :-)

The area in question looks like this:

>> http://www.sfforever.co.uk/viewgallerypicture.asp?id=10-18-240-241-242-243-244-245-246-249-247-248-250-251-252-253-254-255-256-257&queryon=22 <<

Rob and I were messing around with these bits on Scarlet last weekend (also another long story!)

>> if I tap the underside of the anti-roll bar in an upwards direction, between the bush and the drop link, it's loudest <<

...and you say that the anti roll bar bushes have been replaced?

Given the above, bushes are also my first thought. Do you know which bushes were changed Mike? Did they only do the mounting ones to the underside of the subframe? As it could be the bushes in the drop link. What is worring though is that you mentioned that there is an increase in tramlining and that the castor was out of spec. This could indicate a problem with the wishbone pivot bushes (although why they would rattle in the way you've described is a bit beyond me).

My inclination would be to check out the drop link bushes first (if they weren't swapped earlier).

Oh, just had a thought! :-) Have you had the lower ball joint replaced in the past? The reason i ask is because the ball joint is riveted to the lower wishbone from the factory (you can see one of the three the rivets in the picture above, next to my index finger), but if it has been replaced, these rivets are drilled out and replaced with bolts, the replacement ball joint looks like this:

Hmmm, can't seem to get a direct link to the picture in the parts gallery. Surf to:

>> http://www.sfforever.co.uk <<

Click on PARTS REQUIRED, then MECHANICAL. It is the top picture (can be enlarged if clicked).

If you have a replacement lower ball joint fitted, then one of these bolts may be loose causing a rattle in the correct area.

Just a thought.

SF
Scarlet Fever

Thanks SF, your pics were most helpful - being able to identify the 'thingy' as a drop link speeds up the diagnosis all round...

Dealer is a bit vague on what bushes were changed, and the only ones that look new-ish are the mounting ones. Kinda pi**ed off that (albeit with your guidance) I've been able to track down the noise to one of max three possibles in about 20 minutes, whereas (allegedly) fully MGF trained technicians have pored over it for hours but never found anything.

Having just booked onto the Donington track day, I'm trying not to picture what would happen if a drop link let go at a critical moment - Hello grass, hello tyres, I suspect?

Also pi**ed off that MGR dealers won't accept readings from a non-franchise alignment centre for warranty issues, even if the equipment used is on MGR's approved list. Now I have to stump up for another 4x4 check (£160 ish) before they'll even discuss a solution. Bah!

Mike

This thread was discussed between 04/06/2003 and 06/06/2003

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