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MG MGF Technical - M3D with VVC?

I'm taking the VVC 'F' into Mike Satur for Stage II tuning + Viper + 52mm TB. I want to be safe and get the best from the mods by installing the M3D and re-mapping - however my question is: Can an M3D be installed without having to 'fix' the VVC?
If VVC has to be removed then how is this done? Is it the higher lift cam that remains used?
Steve Jones

Not at the moment. ive heard DTA had a VVC running but wouldnt be releasing the ecu! no idea why.

Piper make the parts for the vvc conversion. prolly best to see Dave Andrews. http://members.aol.com/DVAPower/

Drew
Drew Spalding

What sorta output (bhp) will the car have after the connversion? On the Elise the standard ECU can cope upto about 160bhp, I'd assume the same for the F.

Give Emeralds a call on 0207 737 7114. I've always found them to be very honest and helpful - I was even with a guy who's car they tested on the RR and who they then told that the M3D gave no benefit (no profit to them)!

Plus report back your finding here :o)
Dot

Steve,

I have a similar situation to you. My VVC head is currently with Dave Andrews for full porting. It will be coupled with an ITG Maxogen system, 52mm Trophy throttle body and Phoenix exahust. I'm advised that this should be OK with the MEMS. There is no Emerald option for the VVC - Dave Andrews will explain why if you contact him. The advice I was given, if I wanted further performance mods, was to go for the full Piper conversion and throw away the VVC mechanism. Then you would definitely need the programmable ECU.

HTH

Dave
Dave

Dot,
I am expecting a maximum 20% increase in BHP, bringing power to between 170min and 180max. I guess I'm forced to take my chances with the OE ECU. I contacted MGTerry Garnick, who has recently had similar work carried out on his VVC by Mike. I hope he doesn't mind me including his words on the BBS (I'm bl**y sure Mike won't mind!), but this was his appraisal:

"I did the work because the 60K service was due, so instead of paying
my local Rover dealer £600 for a stamp in my book and dodgy workmanship I
decided to go for it.
yes I had all sorts done by Mike in addition to the parts in your
mail to me I went for a Viper 2 in place of my K&N, larger TB and a sprint
exhaust.
The car is totally transformed you WILL get far more power and a
very smooth delivery, and retain the nice driving characteristics of the
VVC.
Above 3500rpm the results are amazing, the power delivery is smooth
and constant, you can easily hit the rev limiter in 4th gear so be careful
(115mph so not on the public roads!)
The job did take a while as I had Mike and Paul do some other work
to the suspension, poly bushes, shocks, and lowering.The rad and pipes are
also worth changing if you have an early car loads of my mates have had the
pipes split so I asked mike to do this at the same time.
Only one problem, I have a small oil leak from the VVC unit which
Mike is going to sort, so have not put the car on the rolling road yet, but
I guess BHP is in the 170-180 range.
Would I recommend Mike? yes 100%"

'nough said.....
Steve Jones

Thanks to Drew and Dave too *;o)
Steve Jones

Im not sure about the power figure, i had a rover 218 coupe, air filter, throttle body, 4-2-1 manifold, full exhaust and a superchips icon unit.
It made 174bhp on the rollers.

just my 2p worth.

Drew
Drew Spalding

Drew,
It isn't clear from the note, but as well as the TB, exhaust and filter, MGTerry also had the head gas-flowed and ported plus bigger 32.5mm inlet and 28.3mm exhaust valves. Surely 170 to 180bhp at the flywheel is not out of the question?

Steve
Steve Jones

ahh, a little different with head mods. my bad.

Drew
Drew Spalding

A VVC BRM I have been playing with over the last 3 years with a very mild series of head mods, 52mm throttle, exhaust and air filter has several power runs recorded on Dave Walkers computer and 173 - 174 was what was achieved. The mixture at full power was checked and founbd to be well within safe limits, indicating that there was no restriction to the mapping to that point. Additional modifications are in the pipeline with the intention of achieving a genuine 100 bhp per litre on a the single throttle and to have as wide a power band as possible. Currently the power band is incredibly wide. Makes for a far quicker car than concentrating just on max power.

Rog
Roger Parker

BRM? And what sorta "very mild series of head mods" are you talking about? Sounds interesting :o)
Dot

Basically nothing drastic, but to a level that could actually be 'productionanised' on a small scale and the sort of mods that many would quote as stage 1, a method of designation I hate as it is so vague. Cleaning up of the ports, accurate 3 angle seats, blended into the throat and chamber roof minor reshaping of the backs of valves and general smoothing and carefull detail attention to a couple of areas where standard production tolerance is wider than desirable.

Rog

Roger Parker

Any clue who did this work Roger? Janspeed?
Is it basically the same as Peter Burges does per chance?

And what's a "3 angle seat" ?

Also any recomendations for a rolling road?
Should really get mine dyno'd at some point.

Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Nothard

I've been thinking (and found a couple of like-minded nut-cases who had exactly the same thoughts! LOL) about arranging a RR day Paul - possibly in the next couple of months. Jerry has somewhere in mind (Cheltenham) - interested?

Plus I reckon you're right about who originated the porting on this car (more than likely to be Matt's I suspect ;o) ).

Dave's having his head ported - but to a slightly greater extent than this - so this will be very very interesting to see on the RR!
Rob Bell

I've been to Emeralds rolling road a couple of times. The last time I was there they even tested my car for free. Great guys!

Contact details here: http://members.aol.com/emeraldm3d/

Dot

P.S. Dave Walker = Emeralds (although Karl might have something to say about that)
Dot

I know you've been there Dot - seen the evidence! LOL

TBQH I'm happy to go to either place - whereever the more convenient for the most people.
Rob Bell

Rob,

Emerald are obviously going to be a lot closer than Cheltenham for a number of people who may be interested. Certainly for you, me and Paul. Perhaps we should suggest this to Jerry? I noticed that Tim Woolcott, has posted interest in a RR session on Jerry's site, but expressed doubts about travelling to Cheltenham. Emerald is obviously just down the road for Tim in Dulwich. We may also find one or two others would join in - looking at the 'performance upgrades' thread also running at the moment there could be Stu, Wokingham and Jodi, Herts. So, possibly six already?

Dave
Dave

I agree Dave - do you want to suggest this to Jerry?
Rob Bell

Rob,

Just done it - he's in agreement.

There may be comments come through from other people on Jerry's site's thread, but it looks like we may have a 'project'. Let's try to consolidate the interest.

Dave
Dave

Just sent an email out to all potentially interested parties. I'll start a new thread with the details.

Dave
Dave

>>>Any clue who did this work Roger? Janspeed?
Is it basically the same as Peter Burges does per chance<<<

Janspeed, before they went under. It was commissioned by PTP and they have since developed the spec further. There is a fundamental difference between Peter's approach and PTP. PTP are looking for the best returns for the simplest non specialised machining ease. Peter looks to get the best which involves very careful, and by definition, time consuming hand work on top of machine work.

3 angle seats.

Essentially the valve sits on it's seat at an angle of 45 degrees. That angle treats the transition of the port to the chamber as being a 90 degree bend. Three angles cuts are done to provide additional transitions so that you have a 30 and 60 degree cut to smooth the transition out more. Additionally the hand touch can further smooth the whole transition out, but must leave the 45 degree seat for the valve to sit on, and be wide enough to do two main functions. 1, seal the chamber when closed, and 2, allow heat to pass from the head of the valve into the seat to be passed into the cooling system. The back of valves will also often be treated to similar transition cuts to smooth airflow.

One advantage with mild changes on our modern engines is that the engine management system is flexible enough to adapt. This is far from the situation where you add a modified head to say an MGB. In the MGF's case a rolling road has some use in checkijg that your fuelling hasn't been stretched beyond the limit and that there is no obvious fault. But beyond this it is useful in giving you a series of numbers. Useful to compare with previous figures from the same rolling road to see what improvements you have.

Rog
Roger Parker


>>We may also find one or two others would join in - looking at the 'performance upgrades' thread also running at the moment there could be Stu, Wokingham and Jodi, Herts. So, possibly six already?<<

Count me in Dave !!!

Regards all

STU
Stu

This thread was discussed between 13/10/2002 and 20/10/2002

MG MGF Technical index

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