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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGF Technical - MG HGF

with so much comment on this hgf thing its got me kind of worried as im'e no mechanic,i feel i may be going out for a drive just waiting for something to happen which is no good ,as some of you guy's and gals know i love my f like the rest of you .BUT if this problem is a big as it seems and is a build or design fault NOT OURS should MG come clean and at least cover cost for any hgf's or pay for upgrade hg's ect, what do you think?is there anything we can try to help us?cheers dave T6 DCM.
david morris

I put a note up about this in a pevious post.

Certainly, as a member of a BB you have more chance of agreeing something with MGR as there is always power in numbers!

In my experience with Suzuki GB (Hayabusa Motorcycles) the members of the message board complained in one letter with all names and addresses listed - this resulted in Suzuki "reversing" there policy on particular failures and the members recieving F.O.C replacement and labour on the "faulty parts"

Now the F is notorious for HGF weakness/cooling problems and it is certainly a design/servicing fault. It is apparant that the later Head gasket with steel dowells seems to hold out better than the origional set up - but it can/has still failed.

However there are a number of contributing failures that can lead to HGF

These being

Faulty bottle/pressure cap
Weak loose hose clips
Premature corrosion of coolant pipes
Poor servicing and blead techniques by MGR dealers

I think it is worth writing a "collective" letter - or as in the Suzuki case as a last resort - going onto "Watchdog" to make the problem public


Unfortunately - Many owners having there fingers burnt wouldnt go near a MGR car ever again - not good news for the companys future on the F / TF front

The problem is there are multiple reasons for failure and MGR wont have a complete cure for this to date - so what do you ask for - free replacement every time it fails ?? We all know that MGR would never do this nor to be fair would any other dealer ( well maybe Honda)


MGR in nearly every instance of failure could claim it was poor servicing or some other affect of our driving/maintenance that was to blame - although we all know thats not true ( in most cases) - so we have to prove it!! Which is where numbers as a collective and going public can make a big difference


What amazes me if the amount of F owners who just accept the failure and cough up huge amounts of money -

Where people complain and cause a comotion there seems to be a hidden policy of "sharing the cost"
Of course not everyone is prepared to shout n scream in a dealers showroom!

Unfortunately the HGF is not life threatening - so doesnt require a automatic recall and its up to MGR as to whether they admit high numbers of failures - would you admit an inherent fault if you didnt have to - -i WOULDNT!

MGR are planning to bring out a front engined sports/convertible in the next few years and I see this (my opinion) as an acceptance that the HGF problem wont go away due to the mid engined layout problems of the F and "probably" TF!!


Some will say that MGR will run this new sports car alongside the TF - I dont think so ! The F/TF will be phased out and forgotten as a nice earner with a bad reputation unless a cure is found for the HGF which is unlikely!

On the other side of the coin - If MGR admit a fault - Your cars value will plummet as no one in the right mind would buy one for anything more than peanuts!
Talk to ANY unbias mechanic/dealer and they will all tell you to stear clear of the F unless you have a concrete warranty - Try it!

Values on the F have dropped already with the intoduction of the TF(moreso than a normal drop caused by a new model) - The TF having a redesigned suspension just reinforces the publics perception of the handling on the F having problems - which we all know it does/can to varying degrees depending on whether it was built on a Friday or Monday!

Still - All a damn shame as its a cracking looking car and the K lump is a beauty!

I really didnt want to sell mine - but I dont have deep pockets !


Tony - now the owner of a very reliable but not so pretty MX5




tony

a good reply Tony,having spent so much already on accessories my pockets are about as deep as yours and would be up s**t street with talk of £500 or so for a hgf repair,perhaps someone reading this thread with bit of legal cred might do as you suggest above, power of the BBS ,watchdog? mmm, who knows but one thing im'e sure of is as much as i like my f and its a lot,i really am beginning to think about the unthinkable before to late , i know shame on me ,but!!
david morris

'watchdog' knows about the MGF HG from two years ago. Nothing new to increase their advert income and publicity ;)

Anyway, all car manufacturers out there have this or that problem. No car is perfect.
But which has such a great community ?

Don't really worry about the insane shouter posts to this BBS.
Keep sensitive but don't panic.

It's only a car. Let it in the garage at home and you never suffer from a puncture, will never need fuel, no oil, no repairs. no gaskets, no worn parts.

Dieter
PS. no risk no fun, which doesn't mean risk in every case
Dieter Koennecke

Yes, good reply Tony, but as they say its a free country and to just add my bit:

My car has done 36,000 miles is 4.5 years old, i've had it 3 years and 1 week, not the slightest hint of a HGF, has never had any tyre wear or handling problems. Much more reliable car then my previous 2 Celicas, the last Celica was in and out the garage continously over an 18 month period.
Paul

Paul,youve cheered me up a bit because it was an F or toyota celica ,i chose F.mine is coming up for 1st mot 1st April (no april fool puns !!)and has done 19,000 miles 1.8 i., and no probs, Dieter yeh,take your point thanks.
david morris

Tony WROTE:

>What amazes me if the amount of F owners who just accept the failure and cough up huge amounts of money<

Doesn't amaze me! Look carefully in the right places and you will find this is true of many makes or model of car.

>Values on the F have dropped already with the intoduction of the TF<

They would have dropped anyway and so they should. Some of the new Fs are not as expensive as previously plus real discounts on new models combine to affect used values as they should too. There is also the possibilty to consider that many cars are very over-valued in the first place by both owners and dealers, particularly the latter. Something NOT unique to MGFs.

Dealers new car margins may have been "adjusted" giving the impression of lower prices, but, UK new prices are STILL far too high.
John McFeely

Dieter wrote:

"Anyway, all car manufacturers out there have this or that problem. No car is perfect. But which has such a great community ?"

Hmmm interesting point mate. Hypothetically, If this board and the various clubs didn't exist, how much of the HGF debate do you think would be in the public realm? Not a great deal is my opinion. So if we look at other cars who do not have this kind of "ownership network", do you think it's likely that the problems these cars suffer from are not being 'flagged up' as common failures? Furthermore, if we were to extend this hypothesis, you could say that a VERY good reason to buy an MGF is that all the main problems are in the public realm and therefore, anyone buying an F goes into it with their eyes open.

There are of course exceptions to the above, the MX5 for instance has an extensive Owners Club, although no where near as big as either the MGOC or MGCC it is still a major player and therefore would know of any common faults, which the MX5 seems to be fairly devoid of. In this regard, you could argue that a Mixie would be less painfull financially over time as it appears to be fairly bomb proof. Other cars, like the Barchetta, Spider, Z3 and MR2 do not have the same ownership network and therefore i would imagine that any inherrant problems with any of these cars do not get collated independantly and therefore go unrecognised by anyone other than the dealership networks and the manufacturers.

This to my mind is taking a gamble. At least with the F, you have a realistic idea of what can go wrong and, although the reported HGF figures on this board are totally unrealistic, being skewed above the norm due to the nature of this board (ie a place to report and discuss problems), there is advice on hand to help with any questions you might have. This advice comes from so many different avenues, not just the internet, but also the clubs, the MG publications, natters, rallies, tours, anywhere and everywhere. The MG 'scene' is vast and friendly and this is one of the things that makes the F special. Sure it was rushed through on a minimal budget, being very much an afterhours project by a small group of MG afficianados. Sure the majority of dealerships are just plain inept. But, with this level of support and the ownership's willingness to meet and discuss anything of interest, a potential F owner really has very little to worry about IMO.

SF <-- getting off his soapbox now!
Scarlet Fever

Well said SF
Bruce Caldwell

...aw shucks...

SF <-- embarrassed now!
Scarlet Fever

An important point: many speak of HGF as being a huge problem.

The trouble is there is no evidence to say that it is huge at all. We have absolutely no idea as to how many of the MGF's manufactured have suffered with an HGF. Nor, I doubt, will we ever know.

I am not arguing the fact that HGF is a problem. Just be aware that it isn't a certainty that your car will suffer from an HGF. Not by a long shot.

Ancedotal report of my own: 60k miles, 6 years of ownership (and that means that my car has all those original 'design faults', being a 1995 built car) and no HGF. Despite a 'diet' of driving that is much more risky in terms of causing problems.

And from reporting trends, the number of more recent cars (especially MY2000 on) with HGF are almost negligible...
Rob Bell

Good points Rob and Scarlet,

Visit any "Doctor's surgery" waiting room (not unlike this MGF BBS) and chances are many people there are so because they have problems. QED (wossat mean then ... :o)

Worth repeating about possible harmful engine heat dissipation after switch off. Over a period, this can and does accelerate some component wear and tear in any car. In a fully enclosed mid-engine set-up denied any ambient cooling as with a conventional car, these effects could be more prone to occur sooner rather than later. My workhorse cars have a hard life and I try to "cool down" after a hot "warm up" before switch off. Engines do seem to last longer that way. Sound advice and one I have used since I cracked a cylinder head on my MGB back in the 60s simply due to lack of experience. It's an ill wind because the replacement head enabled the car to perform much better .... dont know why. Cost: £17.10.0p fit it myself!

If, as some suspect, the basic MGF concept does have a built in flaw, then from my observations it's that the car needs EXTRA care and attention particularly with servicing which unless competently completed, does eventually lead to some serious problems, but only with some cars.

From my own experience when travelling as a passenger in cars driven by very good drivers, some of these have little grasp of what is going on in their engine compartment and terms like "mechanical sympathy" simply does not apply. When these good drivers tend to have problems with their vehicles, they are often more serious than had they be able to spot the first signs of trouble earlier. However, if there's a squeak in the dash, or the door handles the wrong shade, straight round to the dealers. Many drivers are guilty of this.

No sexist remarks please but a safe, fine driver I know who happens to be a woman, burnt out three clutches in short time in her Fiesta. So, acting on the advice of another woman, she replaced it with a Rover 100. Guess what? Within 10,000 miles it too needed a new clutch. Try persuading her that not ALL Fords and Rovers are rubbish ...... DOH.

JMcF
John McFeely

And now for the balanced view.

As an MG fan and a realist, I can accept the argument that the greater ownership network we see evidence of on this board does help to highlight the various problems more than say a Nissan Almera.

However, you guys are going on your own experience which has 'luckily' been good thus far. I put most of my bad MG experiences down to bad luck and / or not being careful enough when choosing the car.

What I have to say, and this has been touched on already, is that biased pro or Anti MGF sentiments aside, the fact remains that the MGF has a very bad reputation in the trade. Now this is not because people read this BBS, it's not even because they heard it from a mate, it's because they have seen the cars arrive on the back of a trailer with most of it's fluids emptied all over the road. I have a few independant friends in the motor trade who practically cried laughing when I asked them about the F's build and reliability. I have seen the evidence with my own eyes/wallet.

I know this is a pro MGF board and it is not the done thing to take the piss out of it. However, I consider myself as much an MG fan as anyone else here (or maybe I've got more money than brains), but I do believe in calling a spade a spade, if people delude themselves that because it hasn't happened to them that it isn't a problem well thats great for MG but bad for the consumer as we will be continued to be fobbed off with sub-standard goods. Taking into account what I read on this board, what 2 MG dealers and perhaps up to 10 independants have told me as well as personal experience, I would have to stick my neck out and say that the MGF does have more HGF's than other cars, like I have said before I have now met about 15 owners in this country and more than half have had HGF failures. If I were to pick 15 Toyota corolla owners at random and ask them about failures I doubt the count would be the same. It's a fact the F was designed on a shoestring, no great stress testing can have occured on the gasket, the fundamental design has been flawed from the start and has been patched up a bit by MG of late (a bit like MS Windows really).

Yes other cars do have HGF, all brands have it. However, anyone can also get cancer, but if they live around chernoybl the chances are greater. Would you say that if you lived next door to chernoybl that anyone can get cancer and that just because you (unlike all your nighbours) don't have it, that sure anyone can get it, whats special about here ?

It's similar with the MGF, like all cars it can fail. I firmly believe that the MGF (ALL MODELS/YEARS) are more likely to fail that your average car (eg: MX5, MR2). I harp on about the HGF because thats the one that costs the money.

Overall though I feel cheated. Doen't anyone else here fell angry that MG build this wonderful looking car which has this huge community and support, and yet let themselves (and us) down with the shoddy build and the lack of real action on the HGF issue ? It's a damn shame is what it is.

Still, I can't bring myself to get rid of it. Go figure.
Dave Quigley

A truly balanced view can be sen from the top of the Old Bailey!

Seriously - tell me you know a make of car that never gives troubles and I will be able to tell you that you are naive or a liar!

As someone once said 'If you are ill go to hospital, If you are not ill go to hospital and you soon will be ill'

Ted
Ted Newman

I think that I already have conceded that all models have their own problems. For example my girlfriends Renault Megane has awful electronic problems specifically with the central locking. Apparently this is a common thing. And as for my Honda Civic, well I had to change the brake light bulb twice on that, twice I tell you, AND, i needed to fix a puncture once.

With that out of the way.....
Name one car(current model) that has the same reputation for HGF as the F.

And please bear in mind that a HGF in an F costs far more to fix than in most other cars.

Now imagine an F with the reliability of an MX5.

Feel cheated yet ? I do.

Oh listen to me harping on like Mega, I'm not trying to put the marque down, I think anyone reading my posts knows I am a fan of the car (albeit slightly hardened and bitter about some of my expereinces with it, I mean who wouldn't ?), I merely like to attribute praise where it's due and also blame where it's due.


PS: Anyone know of a reasonable Triumph Spitfire for sale, doesn't have to be pretty, just solid body, no rust in key areas and a driveable engine. Must be cheap (v cheap) and capable of making it from somewhere in the UK to the ferry terminal at pembroke.
Dave Quigley

spittys

http://www.spitfireg1.f9.co.uk/frame.htm

I used to deal with the chap below - very honest/ nice bloke and lots of knowledge / sells cars and restores - Very highly reccomended !

David Aspinall
Anglian Triumph Services
Crossways Garage, Loddon Road
Ditchingham
Norfolk NR35 2QY
Telephone: 01986 895387 or Fax 01986 896860
Or email to david@angserv.demon.co.uk

http://www.angserv.demon.co.uk/




As for all cars being reliable - i do think in general the F falls way below in reliability stakes and a potential HGF for me was just too expensive to take a chance on (you wouldnt mind if it was a £200 DIY JOB)

As far as the MX is concerned - yes there bomb proof - except for 91 models which had a weak crankshaft keyway - so not all perfect - In saying that Mazda redesigned the problem out in 5 months!

TONY

I've had a Ford 5-speed gearbox fitted to my Mk3 Spitty- the transformation is fantastic! :o))

Expensive, and a non-Triumph part I know, but I am cheered by the fact that a jelly mold Sierra had to die to give me reliable motorway speed cruising! ;o)

The write-up is in this month's Triumph World...

Highly recommended mod for when you get the car- chat to Tim Fenna @ Frontline engineering (Bath)... who, irony of irony, is an mg specialist! ;o)
Rob Bell

Thanks for the tips guys, I'm looking into those as I type.
dave quigley

You can mention my name to Dave although its been 7 years since I last had the spit and he may not remember me(dark blue MkIV with the MIII 1300 BLOCK)


He had to collect my car because a new clutch fitted failed - not his fault - Manufacturer fault - he drove 120 mile round trip to collect and fix - and then offered to deliver - Not bad for £15 odd per hour labour rate!
TONY

My HG has just gone after 21000, 3.5 years and is out of warranty. Purchased from private owner last June. Full service history from MGR. Already spent £1500 on servicing for MOT, V.EXPENSIVE cd player, and windscreen water sprayers, which incidently the MGR garage broke. Dont really want to spend more on a part that bottom line, is not fit for purpose. How do I get Rover (who have now thrown 'customer service' over the fence to the MGR dealers, with no escalation process if you are unhappy with the service) cough up the full amount to cover the repair?
H Gowing

Hi,

don't forget to register your HGF details here.
http://www.shame.4mg.com

:(
Sorry about it in any way.
Dieter Koennecke

I fell in love with the MGF 7 years ago and have saved up bit by bit over the years. Was sooo pleased when I got my Tahiti blue, jaguar leather seated (hint I could be a girlie)VVC, you put your foot down and you go! And when you have the roof down, it has serious wow factor, and I am so glad to be alive! Was also feeling good about buying british. So am rather dismayed to find out that MGF's have this inherent problem.
Not wanting to winge, but what can we do about it? It sounds we owners could be snookering ourselves when we want to sell if it becomes a well publicised problem :(
H Gowing

H

Do you see 77000 MGFs by the road side with steam comming out? No of course you dont, dont take too much notice of the hype on this board, this where people come to moan. Look on it as an hospital where everyone is sick, repairing the sick or gloating over the sick - get back on to the street and most people are not sick.

Take sensible precautions and enjoy your *F* I have had my car for over six years now and have enjoyed every minute of it and so far no HGF and I am not alone.

Ted
Ted

> inherent problem.

My only inherent trouble is that a car needs fuel ! :)

On the road since nearly 4 years now with the second MGF. Woun't miss any minute and had less repair costs on this then at any other car in my last 22 years of motoring. Never had a HGF problem, though I blew an engine of a Vauxhall years ago which had already 150k miles. Had a burned valve at a VW beetle, a broken cam chain at a 'Lada', so what ?

Don't forget to be as sensitive as with every car, but don't panic.

:o)
Dieter
Dieter

Not wanting to be the prophet of doom Ted, you are certainley not alone, but it would seem you are a member of a decreasing band of owners without a failure. I think people should accept the better than average chance of a HGF and consider it a tax for paying so little for what is otherwise a great car in the first place.
Dave Quigley

Dave, I do think that you are being overly pessimistic regarding HGFs in our cars. Quite the contrary to being "a member of a decreasing band of owners without a failure" I would counter that the opposite were true, as more recent cars are much much better in regard to HGF resistance. We are all members of an ever increasing band of owners WITHOUT a failure! ;o) I hear what you are saying, but I do feel the need to temper your assertion somewhat.

I would concede that 1997 was a particularly bad year WRT HGF, but the data we have sadly gives no clue as to the true incidence rate.

No one here is claiming that HGFs are not a problem - we accept that, and as a group, we try to understand the causes, try to figure out solutions and advise fellow enthusiasts on how best to remedy the problem. That's part of the reason why sites like http://www.shame.4mg.com are so useful. It was originally set up to counter the dealership attitude: "HGF isn't a problem- you must have caused it" and now gives us all a way of tracking the problem, and provide some limited insight into the causes.

So to the reader of this thread who is new to the HGF issue, don't panic. Be vigilant by all means, but HGF is a very long way from being a certainty on your car.
Rob Bell

I think an important factor in the HGF issue is the increasing familiarity with the cooling system bleeding requirements that the various mechanics have gained.

I got the impression (Rob will no doubt confirm this from the HOS data) that there was a correlation between "someone messing about with the cooling system" (maybe a coolant change) and a HGF.

As time has gone by many of the mechanics working on F's have learnt (often the hard way, and at owner's expense) that a) F's don't self bleed and b) air locks cause HGF's.

I suspect that many of the 96 and 97 suffered HGF's after either some time after a coolant change incorrectly or after a "somewhat dodgy" expansion bottle cap gave up the ghost and lost water/introduced air.

Neil.
Neil

Fogive me for asking but what the heck goes wrong with the expansion bottle cap. I was very good this morning I checked my water level now I am paranoid about that !

BTW coolant still there.
Stephen Laithwaite

Stephen

There was a faulty batch of caps at one stage - but by now most will have been changed - I am sure Rob or Dieter will be able to tell you more.

BTW it was not just my opinion that there is a lot of hype on this matter it was also the opinion of Honest John of the Daily Telegraph who found that there was no real evidence that the K series engine was any worse than any others - providing it was correctly maintained.

Ted
Ted Newman

It should be added that MGR only got hold of Powertrain, where the K series is made, last year: before that it remained in the hands of the Bavarians. Almost immediately there were two or three changes to the gasket design, and my impression (and only an impression) is that these have had some effect.

Getting any changes made befre then would, I imagine, have been difficult at best, given the money wrangles.

E
Ed Clarke

One of the great advantages of the K-series, and one that paradoxically provides it with an Achilles heel of sorts, is that the coolant capacity in the engine block is so small. The positive aspect of this is a very rapid warm-up time, that improves engine efficiency, reduces emissions, and prolongs the engine life. The down-side is that if the coolant level drops for what ever reason, the engine will suffer rapid damage- usually a headgasket failure.

Bleeding the cooling system is not hard, but it is involved. Moreover, there is a potential for mistakes to be made, and there are tricks to enable the experienced to bleed the system sucessfully. Airlocks are very bad news. Stop the circulation in the small-capacity block, and localised overheating occurs... and pop goes the head gasket.

Regarding the coolant cap. These were replaced with a newer type with a painted white dot on its top surface. These are more robust than the earlier type. Most will have been replaced as Ted rightly says, but my original cap lasted 5 years, so not a bad service life for a consumable item- and this may mean that there are still MGFs out there with original caps. Replace if any doubt as to its condition or performance (the coolant in the resevoir should not boil for example!!!). It's very cheap and easy to do- so no excuse really. ;o)
Rob Bell

Hmmm,
Just checked my bottle cap and it looks like it's an old un, should really have gotten it changed when I had the engine replaced. Think I'll do it as a precaution.

Rob, I think time will tell wether the HGF issue has truly been addressed. The signs are good so fingers crossed, but I ain't counting any chickens just yet. If the problems have been dealt with, I will probably wait a year or two and then buy one of the newer models as a second car. The current one should only be good for parts at that stage, given it's current rate of decline on these dirt tracks we call roads in this country. Most of the roads in my locality were made 200 years ago for donkeys and horses and I am begining to doubt whether or not they have been resurfaced since.


Out of curiousity, when I had the major HGF (The one that killed the engine), it was also found that an engine mount was broken and that the engine would have been vibrating about a bit, I know an engine by it's nature already vibrates, however could this have had any kind of contribution to the failure ??? It seems unlikely but it's always good to get another opinion.

DQ
Dave Quigley

No idea about the vibrations/ HGF. I doubt it, but someone else may have a better idea...

>>I think time will tell wether the HGF issue has truly been addressed. The signs are good so fingers crossed, but I ain't counting any chickens just yet.<<

David, I completely agree and I think your attitude is quite right: only time will tell. I'll be keeping fingers crossed too!
Rob Bell

I have in fact in my time seen a couple of MGF's on the hard shoulder steaming away.
What is meant by sensible precautions? Is not having it serviced regularly by MGR garage not sufficient (other than checking fluid levels, lights tyres etc)???
The mechanic who diagnosed the problem said any mechanic for Rover knows about this problem.
My brother worked for Unipart (and the company that took them over). They shifted alot of HG's.
Am also told there is another design problem, one with the gears/vvc system. They didnt get it quite right before manu. This will cost in excess of 1200 to replace. So I guess £800 for a HG that is not fit for purpose is a snip of the price, so we should all be thankfull :(
H Gowing

>So I guess £800 for a HG that is not fit for purpose is a snip of the price<

If you have proof that this is a fact then take it to the local trading standards officer and they will very happily take MGR to court on your behalf.

Ted
Ted Newman

Oh No. See the HGF Again ?? Say it isn't so. thread
Dave Quigley

Please say you have proof
s

what is an HGF?
ALAN JONES

It is interesting that from my position of dealing with member queries and having done the lions share of MGF based queries for some years I have noted a very significant reduction in the cases where members are describing symptoms which are clearly gasket issues. The slow down started in 2000 and has increased quite significantly in the last 12 months.

The other interesting factor is that most cars were built in the pre late 1998 period and now that these cars have gone through a particular period those that were going to suffer have by and larger already suffered. A few have seen repeat failures. Now I do get many enquiries from non Club members whose cars have suffered a problem and faced with a big bill the owners are seeking help and confirmation, so this opens up another batch of owners. I have also had some actually referred to me by MG Rover dealers!!!

Some of the problems will have been hidden by the introduction of the 3 year waranty in September 2000 which will have moved the 2nd and 3rd year problems back to the dealer rather than leave it with the owners, but since newer cars owners have been contacting for other reasons it is reasonable to expect the there should have been a suitable proportion who were suffering from HGF.

Countering the newer cars and 3 year warranty is the fact that older cars are becoming more affordable and many more are being bought by new owners who are already in the Clubs or who then join. Clearly if the rate of failure in these cars was continuing at the same rate an increasing member base with the cars would also see a proportionate increase in queries for HGF. It hasn't, but questions of water ingress continue to be one of the common issues!!

The impressions I get from this rather large sample area is that HGF rate has dropped very, very significantly.

Rog
Roger Parker

Interesting Rog; your experience matches the reporting rates on the head gasket failure (HGF) reporting web site (http://www.shame.4mg.com).

All evidence indeed points to a marked downward trend- long may it continue.
Rob Bell

Does that mean the MGRover QA department can now sign off development of the F as complete?

They will be relieved.

"Oh dear,we've just stopped making them".
Andy

You cynic Andy ;o)

Good news for new TF owners though.
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 03/03/2002 and 14/03/2002

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.