MG-Cars.com
MG MGF Technical MGF = HGF ? BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
MG-Cars.net
Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
Recommendations
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG MGF Technical - MGF = HGF ?
| I've been reading a lot of postings on this topic. There seems to be a incredible range (and depth - appreciated) of opinion. I've summarised a few questions to things I'm still not clear on ? - Could my K&N air filter contribute to a HGF. ? - Should I alway wait for the oil temp to rise above 90 deg. before increasing revs beyond say 3000rpm. - Revving my VVC engine beyond 5000 rpm and onto to its rorty limits will lead to damage? - Could having the engine coolant changed at the 36k service lead to a HGF by a introducing air into the system. IMHO is seems like the answer to all these is yes. So I'd better take off the K&N, start the car and let it warm up to full operating temperature before driving anywhere and never drive it over 3000rpm oh and sell it before the 36,000 service interval. Time to buy a new car I think. My next choice was to be a Lotus Elise. Mmmm, I wonder which engine that car uses ???? Apologies for the sarcasm - but is quite depressing (as I do like the F) Dave. Not had a HGF yet. |
| Dave |
| The F is going in for its 12,000 mile service tomorrow and I noticed last night that the coolant level in the expansion tank has gone down about and inch but no green coolant on the floor. I'm praying its just the header tank cap that nedds replacing. I've notified the garage and they're going to pressure test the system. T69 ABW |
| JFK |
| MPI ? VVC ? If MPI and built until VIN RD504633 the pressure check will probably state that the intake manifold sealing leaks http://www.01019freenet.de/mgf/inmanga1.jpg Sorry only in german, but figures are international, are they ? dk http://mgf.tech.here.de (heavy under restructuring) |
| Dieter |
| Dieter Its a VVC. |
| JFk |
| - Could my K&N air filter contribute to a HGF. ? I don't think so. It might even be helpful. I would add a "wetter" to the cooling fluid too. - Should I alway wait for the oil temp to rise above 90 deg. before increasing revs beyond say 3000rpm. Yes. - Revving my VVC engine beyond 5000 rpm and onto to its rorty limits will lead to damage? No, as long as the engine is warmed first. Watch the temp. guage on long high speed motorway cruises though. - Could having the engine coolant changed at the 36k service lead to a HGF by a introducing air into the system. Yes if it's not done properly. >Time to buy a new car I think. My next choice was to be a Lotus Elise. Mmmm, I wonder which engine that car uses ???? Personally I think the HGF problem with the F (if there is one!) is more due to a cooling system problem. This is all just my opinion though after 2 blown HGFs though! |
| Dot |
| I am not in the motor trade so have no access to any special database But I do think that many people on this board are giving the MGF an undeserved black name. The AA show that after batteries and punctures head gasket failures are the third most common call out for ALL cars. The Daily Telegraph motoring section researched the head gasket failure complaints for the MGF and found that the K series engine in general was better than average and the MGF was no worse. Whilst I might take Manufacturers remarks with a pinch of salt I have no reason to suspect that the AA and the Daily Telegraph are 'twisting' the facts and if they were - for what reason, after all I am sure neither of them have ever heard of Dirk or Dieter and want to prove them wrong. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Ted, I think the intent is to solve the problem and not to give the F a bad name, we have the problem so we should look at how to solve it, because it is a problem for many of us. If it is statistically relevant is not the issue. The issue is some people have the problem and in general to play safe you can observe some precautions to avoid the possible problem. I may be a little biased because it happened to me just after it's second birthday when I had no modifications and had not thrashed my car. Maybe I was just unlucky, who knows. I have had no problems in this respect since. If we start to get upset when someone asks a question because it may damage the name of the MGF we may as well give up with the technical BBS as we will be shouted down every time we have a problem we want to discuss. Ted, do you really believe that the HGF problem only exists in the minds of the BBS users and not in reality? I can't believe that you would have this view. I still think we have had enough evidence to at least respond when people ask a question. Otherwise, maybe we should produce a list of technical matters we are not to discuss on the BBS. |
| Tony Smith |
| Tony No, I do understand that there is a problem if the head gasket 'blows' and I do know that there have been a number of head gasket failures, I am just trying to put it into perspective and I am say that this a general motor car problem, always has been but technology is improving and so the problem becomes less. And I agree we are here to try and help each other and offer some suggestions to help overcome this. What I am also saying is that there are a number of BBS types who seem to think that because they have had a general car problem, and I agree it is an upsetting problem, they should then 'trash' the car, which is unfair and is giving the MGF a bad name. The modern motor car is an extremely complex piece of mechanical (and today electronic) engineering which can and does go wrong and when that car is already built towards the upper end of its capabilities DIY 'enhancements' will just help to hasten the day it goes wrong. I have done a little DIY on my own MGF and I accept that this might just help to make it go wrong a little quicker - I hope not - but I do accept it. I still say the MGF is basically a reliable, fun car that can be used every day. Mine is now 4 years old and if I am to be honest has probably given me less trouble then any other car I have owned and has certainly cost less to run than my last 4 or 5 cars. Enjoy your MGF and if does go wrong try and get it repaired under warranty, from all the postings on this board over the last four years I have gained the impression that Rover have been very sympathetic, but the there are those that just love to have a moan and will claim that that makes Rover a 'suspect' company. They can not win - which means of course that BMW will probably not sanction another MG. The moaners will have then won - what a hollow victory for them. Ted N11KRT - The Green Squirrel |
| Ted Newman |
| I didn't intend to blacken the name of the MGF but to try and get clarification on the HGF issue. This is mainly in response to the fact that it seems a number of BBS members have experienced HGF's. Depressing reading IMO. Overall I think that the HGF problem leaves a sour taste along with, to be quite honest, a long list of other techincal malfunctions. In fairness to Rover I have had all my faults repaired quickly and at no cost. Agreed, the F is a highly practical, fun, car to drive. Build quality and design is questionable though. Dave s688fnm |
| Dave |
| Ted, I accept what you say and I don't want to argue as you all know my opinion on this by now. The danger is that Casey logic is used whereby if something is not proven absolutely it does not exist no matter what the circumstantial evidence suggests. I currently still have a leak in the passenger side after nearly 3 years of asking dealers to fix it and my windows have never been adjusted correctly. Apart from that most problems I had have been fixed. So on this basis it is quite reliable, but I think this is down to it being a modern car rather than the F being super reliable. The car is quite a good design and is great fun to drive, and I want to keep my F for many years to come, it is only really let down by build quality and dealer ability. These points against are something that Rover could fix without too much work as the product it's self is good. Unfortunately Rover continue to have money problems which means they do not have the resources to train dealers properly or improve build quality. We are still waiting to see if the MKII has the same problems, maybe with the new version they have found ways of improving the build quality. I agree that if you want to avoid these sort of problems you should get a car that has a more standard layout. Making a mid engine car is not the simplest of design feats and I take my hat off to Rover for even attempting the MGF in the first place. From what I hear about Ferrari, they spend a great amount of time being fixed, and they cost a lot more to buy so compared with a Ferrari the MGF is quite good value as far as reliability goes :-). |
| Tony Smith |
| Ted, Tony, well said. :) |
| Dieter |
| "there have been a number of head gasket failures, I am just trying to put it into perspective and I am say that this a general motor car problem" Sorry Ted, since the time I have the F I heard only of 1 colleague who blew his head gasket on an old Peugeot 405. Since I know a lot of people with all kinda cars (from Citroen AX, Renault Megane, Audi A4, Rover 620, BMW 330d, BMW M5, Ferrari 348 etc): none had a HGF. And some of these guys drive totally insane, even if they have a little city car (like Peugeot 106). But they all do declare ME crazy, not for my driving style, but for keeping it :o/ So please don't generalise this problem that all of a sudden all BBS'es of any car brand & type can easily show over a 100 HGF on a total visitors count of est. 500. The MGF 'has a tendency' to blow way faster than any other modern car, can't deny that, and there are some serious suspicions to the cause of this... mid placed engine, insufficient cooling due to poor car design. I think it's not fair for all other brands to get the same HGF reputation of the MGF, this kind of extrapolation is too easy to somewhat repair the 'blown' image of MGF. If all head gaskets for the K engine would be produced at the same plant, would be easy to calculate: (assuming HG is not used in other K-engine types but the 2 ones found in the MGF/R220/Freelander) # produced - # cars produced = # HGF repairs Then you get an idea how many 1.8 K-engines blow up, only issue remains how to estimate how many MGFs are part of the batch. (IMO over 80% of # repairs, 200 series and Freelanders have way better engine reliability due to front placed engine) oh well... |
| Dirk Vael |
| Tony, The 'Casey logic' you refer to is just a mirror reflection of Dirk's logic. The F *has not been proven* to have a high incidence of head gasket failures, all *evidence* given on hear is what is known as circumstansial. It does not actually prove anything, it just shows that if you look to prove a theory you will succeed, even if the overwhelming evidence is against you. The *only* source that can prove this high failure rate is either Rover, or perhaps something like the JD Power survey. And funnily enough everyone on here complained when the F came very low in the JD Power reliability ratings. Until then, by all means attempt to help people who have had the problem - but make the comments constructive. Constantly slagging off Rover, MG, or anyone else isn't going to help. Dirk, I notice that once again you have made completely ludicrous statements as though they were fact. How do you know that 80% of all K series failures are on the MGF? How do you know that the % failure rate you claim to know about (even assuming it was right) is worse than any other car? How do you know that the failures you have noted are from a sample of 500 owners? Dirk , I think it is time that you took legal action against Rover for recovery of wasted money - see how far the 'evidence' you have gets in a court of law. Casey |
| Casey |
| Dirk, >># produced - # cars produced = # HGF repairs<< that's maybe a good idea, but #HG produced is not equal to #HG sold... Had a phone chat yesterday with the body shop chief of my dealer. (nearly a friend now, another story !) He's thinking of buying a crashed MGF in Germany and rebuilding it. When I mentionned HGF, he said that is the biggest problem of the MGF. ("ça, c'est son plus gros problème") He also talked about coolant change, purging and airlocks ... Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Oh guys, this discussion is so boring. It comes up so regularly & there is never going to be agreement. The original poster was just asking for some advice to try and avoid the possibility of the problem, can't someone just answer his questions without getting into a slanging match!? Dot "The voice of reason" :o) |
| Dot |
| Dot I agree however:- Dirk when you reach adulthood and have a look at the real world I think you will find that your calculations are a little suspect, still one should be thankful for small mercies at least you seem to have dropped the obnoxious habit of using foul language on the 'net. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Dot Thanks for your answers to my questions. Could you provide further info as to what the 'wetter' is that I should add to my coolant fluid. Thanks Dave |
| Dave |
| *g* providing info. The best I found and copied from this BBS is still at http://mgf.virtualave.net/ just the index.htm Again: I suggest to improve that site in 'teamwork' as other sides are provided too. I've really comprehension that someones bothers that its recently done by a german. So go anybody from the UK and take the informations and cover it on a webside, please. Live at this BBS would be much easier then, IMO. dk |
| Dieter |
| look, I am not claiming to have found a formula to determine how many HGF occur on MGF, but my dealer didn't encounter a HGF on any other Rover with the same K engine, and thinking of probably reasons suggested by intelligent guys on this board, I'm sure mid engine cars will contribute to majority of failures compared to front engine cars. I'm sure Rover can determine pretty exactly how many HGF there are with MGFs, but yes, I'm sure that's the best kept secret of MG! And Casey, what are you STILL doing on this BBS if you have already sold your MGF? Just to keep bashing you got a TVR? Or just to keep telling us how great the car is you sold already for another? Or is it just to keep bitchin' on me & Tony? And Ted, no matter how you call me, you won't get me angry, I think you're a pretty cool dude. But I'm an adult, any HGF pisses me off, and I will use words like W*NKER or any other 4 letter word for anyone who irritates me a lot (not you ;-) and Dave, for info on waterwetter: http://www.redlineoil.com/wwti.htm |
| Dirk Vael |
| You can find info about the wetter at the link Dirk gave above. Moss also sell one. |
| Dot |
| OK Dirk I agree with you in as much as a head gasket failure would 'piss-me-off' as well, in fact nothing new there as I have had my share of them over the past 48 years but I confess not in the last few years. But I tell you what! I wish I could find computer gear as reliable as my MGF. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Oh dear, the HGF flame war continues... :o( Hi Dave, to try and answer your questions, I have to echo the sensible reply that Dot put forward earlier: - Could my K&N air filter contribute to a HGF. ? I doubt it. Dirk reported LOWER oil temperatures with the K&N kit installed- so *maybe* there may be an advantage to fit a K&N filter... - Should I alway wait for the oil temp to rise above 90 deg. before increasing revs beyond say 3000rpm. Yes, definately- and this applies to any car (but most do not supply an oil temperature guage). - Revving my VVC engine beyond 5000 rpm and onto to its rorty limits will lead to damage? I do not believe this is a problem so long as the car is thoroughly warmed up first. My four year old MPi is thrashed to within an inch of its life quite regularly, and seems to thrive on it. I just regularly check oil levels, and don't do anything daft until the engine oil is warm. - Could having the engine coolant changed at the 36k service lead to a HGF by a introducing air into the system. This would seem to be a real risk- but if the change is performed in strict accordance to the manual (not letting the resevoir level drop) then there should not be a problem. HTH Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| Well-well, we're falling back into that statistics-trap. Seems like a vicious circle. Anyway a sensible topic, and not only for the K-1800 engine... Actually, personally I consider it interesting, but however not of utmost importance, to know whether head gasket failures on MGFs are something beyond acceptable limits or not. Circumstantial proof will be difficult, as there are way too many parameters. There will always be believers and disbelievers. However, what I don't like is innuendo by some people around this BBS that if a HGF happens to *your MGF*, it's: a) or your own fault, because you probably thrash your MGF; b) or mere bad luck of fate striking you. As I already indicated in earlier threads: if it happens to you, then it happens to you for the full 100% regardless whatever any statistics. Just the picture: if you're standing there somewhere in the middle of nowhere at the side of the road, sadly looking at the unpleasant "white puff of smoke" leaving the engine bay area, you really aren't interested to know *at that very moment* whether you are Mr(s) HGF n° 1, Mr(s) HGF n° 1,000, Mr(s) HGF n° 10,000 or Mr(s) HGF n° 100,000. No, you have only 1 MGF and it's unfortunately *that only MGF* which suffers the full 100% the HGF-trouble. So it will be *you* who is left no other choice then to go through the process of damage and collateral damage: getting your MGF being towed away, lose time to get to your intially intended destination, get yourself a replacement car, get your MGF fixed and hope for yourself that you won't get charged for the repairs. Now THAT's applied statistics which cannot reasonably be disputed. HG failed ? You will go through the process (100%), and not the other ones who didn't suffer a HGF (0%). I resent the "those things happen" innuendo by some of the boarders on this BBS. Shows few respect for those facing the trouble for the full 100%, whatever the cause may be (except intentional conduct). Carjackings ? "Oh, those things happen", but hey, the day it happens to *you* or a nearby friend, you will hate to hear people say to you that it happened to you or that nearby friend because of: a) or your own fault; b) or mere bad luck of fate striking you. Feel free to replace the word "carjacking" by whatever criminal action or nasty disease. Now, if you've gone through the process of the 100%-trouble, and you get to know other people which equally suffered 100% the same trouble with the same type of car, then tell me why you aren't entitled to *attempt* to verify/diagnose whether it could be something else than the blunt suggestion by others that the cause is: a) or your own fault, because you probably thrash your car; b) or mere bad luck of fate striking you. That's my opinion on all this HGF-stuff. To put this statistics discussion into perspective, I would like to refer to an interview which I recently saw on Belgian State television. It consisted of an interview of a Belgian that had fought in the resistance against the Germans during the Second World War. Although I know that it is not related at all to really futile things such as head gasket failures, but on the contrary to *very* important issues about life and respect for mankind, I do hope that it might help to better understand the relevant point of the head gasket failure ratio discussion. The old resistance man told the story that whilst recently travelling by train, he overheard a racist conversation by a young man claiming that certainly no six million Jewish people had died because of the Holocaust. The old resistance man felt deeply offended by that racist statement, and started to talk in a calm way to the young man: "So tell me young man, if your point of view is to be correct, which it definitely isn't, then quote me the real number you have in mind of Jewish people that died because of the Holocaust". The racist young man replied "Far less than six million". The old resistance man insisted: "That's your point of view, but specify for me *how much* then: only 10,000 Jewish people ?". The racist young man answered: "No-no, that's an underestimation, it's definitely more than 10,000, but certainly no six million". The old resistance man then answered: "Well young man, let us even consider that it was only one Jewish person that has died because of the holocaust: then tell me honestly, don't you think that killing already one person, is already one killing too much ?". Needless to say that the racist young man was struck dumb. The old resistance man had made the point clear. I repeat that I know very well that this is not related at all to the head gasket failures discussion, but I do hope that it might help to better understand the relevant point of the head gasket failure ratio discussion: 1) hope for yourself that it doesn't happen 100% to you or anyone else (again); 2) each head gasket failure is a one head gasket failure too much. Luc (already 1 100% HGF too much and hoping that it never happens again) GHC216 |
| Luc |
| Watch this space have I got news for you!. By Wednesday all being well. Gordon & Diane |
| Gordon |
| One gasket is fitted to all K series from 1995. I have not done K series head gasket recently, but have continued to do others from mainstream cars used in all manner of different ways. Now is it me, or has there been more talk of gasket failure lately, rather than the repeated 'it's happened to me' reports of failures. If so then I just wonder whether there was a 'batch' issue in respect of cars from a certain period, and that is now working its way through. Later spec cars benefitting from alterations to minor items as clearly major items remain unchanged. I have access to thousands of vehicle breakdown reports and I have to say that I see many F's daily all moving very well. I note that they do not appear as breakdowns that frequently, and head loss of coolant, overheating or suspected head gasket failure is not a common sight. In fact the frequency of seeing car is much much greater as is the increased frequency of speaking to drivers whose cars are definately NOT suffering from any mechanical problems. I would have expected to see an increase in incidence of F's on the hard shoulder and being as I have a specific interest I would certainly note this. However I have about one per month at the momment. If there was a problem of significant proportion I would firstly expect to see more failure as we have the most congested sections of Motorway in Europe, which propogated engine overheating and failures. Secondly when other manufacturers were having well publicised problems with certain cars, then for that period I had contact with a regular stream of affected cars. The problem Vauxhall had with a batch of engines which self destructed with little warning is a prime example. Make of the comments what you will, but my usually quite representitive barometer isn't showing anything significant. Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| If the problem is related to air locks introduced on replacing the coolant than normally this is not performed till the 36000 mile service. Many MGFs have still to reach this point. We can only share our experiences of HGFs versus coolant change to try and give weight (or not) to this theory. See HGF maintence or design fault thread and enter your details. |
| Jon Baker |
| >Until then, by all means attempt to help people who have had the problem - but make the comments constructive. Constantly slagging off Rover, MG, or anyone else isn't going to help. Who me? I see it as constructive criticism. I try to see both sides, look through my responses to comments on this BBS, sure I get pissed when it happens to me, but you will also find me saying good things about Rover and the MGF. The only time I get into arguments here is when I keep getting shouted down by people with no argument. In this case both arguments have great big holes in them. Read what I have said, I think you will find that I have take a much more reasonable approach to this as far as facts go than either of the two extremes. The Fact From our small sample on this BBS it appears that MGF has a higher than average occurrence of Head Gasket Failures. For myself, I add to this my personal experience and that of friends. If this is true or not we cannot tell for sure. But, from the information we have it is better to take precautions just in case the indication from our small sample is correct and keep the temperature down and look after the engine (as you should anyway). To deny its existence as a problem worth comment is as Casey said is as ridiculous as to suggest that from our sample we can accurately account for a higher than average number of failures with the product as a whole I have stated what I consider to be the problem and possible reasons for the problem, none of which are unreasonable, for which I get told that I am giving MG a bad name. I am not Dirk and he is not me, so why you give me the crap I don't know. If my arguments are without any foundation then fine, but I don't think I have been the one supporting ridiculous claims throughout this discussion. I do not accept the "well his argument is a stupid as mine" attitude constructive in the least. PS: I stated it happened to me after the cars second birthday, sorry, that should have read first birthday. So 18 months of HGF free motoring and another 40k on the clock (km). How many more lines to go for the record on long and wordy threads? |
| Tony Smith |
| Unscheduled coolant system changes will have occurred for many early cars due to the original main front to rear coolant pipes being poorly coated. To avoid premature corrosion leading to leaks these should have routinely changed at service when the cars next went in for service. This would create a situation where many cars cooling systems were subject to the same degree of interference as would be found with a coolant change. Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| Hi Tony You said: >>From our small sample on this BBS it appears that MGF has a higher than average occurrence of Head Gasket Failures. << Now, I am not disagreeing with what you have said Tony, but do you know the industry standard rate of HGF under normal driving conditions is? It is difficult to sensibly interpret statements like 'greater than average' if the failure rate for other types of car is unknown. Futhermore, as we have earlier observated, we do not know the incidence failure rate in MGFs either. We know that there is a problem with HGFs occuring in MGFs. But what we can not know is whether this failure rate is either greater than or less than on other vehicles of similar engine [4cyl, TC, 16v] configuration & size. Has Rover got cause to be concerned? Is there an intrinsic design fault? Any HGF is tragic- but I am not aware of any evidence to suggest a specific weakness in the design of the car- other than to note that the cooling system is clearly devilishly difficult to flush properly. Therefore- THERE IS NO REASON TO SUGGEST THAT MGF = HGF There is simply no hard evidence to suggest otherwise. Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| I'd also like to point out what Rog said (or my interpretation of it) - he's seen no major statistical blip in MGFs (compared to other cars) suffering HGFs on the bit of road that he's responsible for. This is at least as 'unbiased' as the survey on this BBS. Or maybe it's just that MGFs don't suffer HGFs on the M6 (equally valid conclusion!) (just had a great weekend in Suffolk, top down all the time, so very happy) N837 OGF |
| Hugh |
| Rob, well if this is as bigger problem with the whole industry then we really have a problem. From my experience HGFs are not common for all makes of car, none of the people I work with have had HGFs with reletively new cars, most of them are lease cars. This indicates (not proves) to me that the MGF is more susceptible than other makes. This is not surprising due to the layout of the car. Why nobody will accept this with the evidence we have I don't understand, it seems like logic has gone completely out of the window here. If it is an industry wide problem then we should not only be complaining we should be shouting from the rooftops for manufactures to fix it. No we cannot prove anything because the manufacturers won't give us the information. I have not said that it is a definite problem with the MGF, all I have said is that from the evidence we all have (life experience included) it looks very likely that we have a high rate of HGFs with the MGF. This is not an attack on MG or Rover it is expressing a concern that we should have according to the evidence. The other occasions I have had HGFs were on much older cars and in most cases the HGF was the result of something else being broken due mainly to old age. The point still stands many of us have a problem, it is irrelevant if it also happens to other cars, at the same rate. We are not talking statistics we are talking about real situations. If I had another make of car having regular HGFs I would complain about that also. We could argue for ever about wording but the problem exists, how big it is we don't know, but we should not ignore it just because we don't have the figures. The information we have shows it is probably greater than .01% and lower than 80%, both of these figures are very unlikely. From the BBS it looks around 40-50% having an HGF at some point, but I think if the problem was this big we would have seen more evidence. I suspect it is maybe around 5% of F's have this problem, but this has no foundation and is just off the top of my head. Regardless of other makes, the question is, does the MGF have an unacceptably high rate of HGFs. or not, it looks like it does to me but we can't prove it. |
| Tony Smith |
| >Regardless of other makes, the question is, does the >MGF have an unacceptably high rate of HGFs. or not, >it looks like it does to me but we can't prove it. Bingo....!!!!! Casey |
| Casey |
| Bingo???? Who won and what is the prize???? Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Well Tony, actually I don't think 50% of the F's have suffered HGFs, but from what I read & heard, it'll certainly be more than a few % ! (just check out the poor dude on another thread whose F enthousiasm went up in a puff of smoke). Probably yet another insignificant exception in the theory of Dr. Casey... <g> |
| Dirk Vael |
| > Bingo....!!!!! Sorry, I don't understand, this is what I have been saying all along if you had actually read the words. I'm sorry that it has taken so long for me to find a way of saying it that would be acceptable. Does this mean that you accept that this does look like a real problem and not just my imagination or some need to destroy the MG name? I feel the issue has been sidestepped with this silly discussion about proof and statistics, where we should have been discussing the problem. We know we have a problem, we are just arguing about how big it is. |
| Tony Smith |
| A friend of mine who lives in Newmarket has a horse, this horse goes 'like the wind' but to get it to go fast my friend has to constantly whip and spur the horse, the horse in turn bites my friend when ever it gets the chance. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Hi Tony I know the point you are trying to make- and I am not disagreeing with you. Remember that whilst there isn't evidence to support the conjecture that there is a HGF problem with the F, there isn't evidence to say that there isn't either. Empass time I am affraid. My point is that we should be critical and cautious as to how we appraise the problem of HGF in the absence of hard fact. After all, on this Technical board, the last thing we want to do is mislead isn't it? We have reached a concensus on one potential aetiology of HGF on the 'F- namely the cooling system. Now we have recently heard about 3 or 4 cases where the cooling fan has been failing to cut in properly- which is associated with a fault with the air con wiring... This is all very interesting- and I await the outcomes of these investigations. This potential fault could present a testible hypothesis as not all MGFs posses the air-con wiring harness (I suspect those cars that have ABS as standard all have the air-con wiring)... Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| >Watch this space have I got news for you!. By Wednesday all being well. Sorry a day late. Our F is a Nov 95 model, had it from new, is only done 34500miles. In that time it's blown two headgaskets. Since the fitting of the second HG it's been back & forth for months & months with a coolant loss problem. Just like the scarlet pimpernel, couldn't find from where or going too.In that time just about everything that could be done or replaced had been done or replaced. Anyway the long and short is the technician contacted Rover, who after going over everything, checking the cars history and mileage etc fitted a new engine FOC. Who said Rover doesn't care. Many thanks Rover and many thanks Trinity Motors (Hinckley). I just hope this is the last of the problem. Diane & Gordon :-) :-) |
| Gordon |
| Gordon, Yes I find Darren and Tim very helpful too. Was any mention of porous block castings made? I have seen a couple of early 1.6's with this and the 1.8 shares the same block. Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| Hi all, I have been following this thread with interest, all the time hoping I would not have to face this issue. Unfortunately driving to work a couple of days ago I noticed fumes in the cabin (more than usual) then a cloud of steam from the engine compartment. Thankfully I noticed all this early enough to pull over and swith off before any terminal engine damage. I have since been advised that this is a head gasket failure and that Rover will cover the cost (the car is a Nov '97 and so a few months out of Warranty). The car has 32KM (16K miles), has been well cared for and has no modifications. Circumstancial, anecdotal ?? Perhaps. But if it looks like it, feels like it, smells like it ..... then, eventually, you have to conclude that it is real. At least this confirms HG failures are not a northern hemisphere phenomenon. By the way, although the temperature on the morning of the failure was 21C, we had been through a heat wave of high 30's and the car had operated with aircon significantly in the weeks leading up to the failure. The cooling fans could clearly be heard both during normal running and after engineswitch off. Regards, Peter Katsoulotos |
| Peter Katsoulotos |
| Roger >Was any mention of porous block castings made? No not mentioned at all, interesting! no doubt the old block will be given the once over. Peter,Ga-day How's Ausie land today?. Best of luck, let us know how you get on. |
| Gordon |
| Re Gordon's FOC Engine MG Customer Services will listen if the dealer can successfully argue that the past faults during the warrenty period have contributed to the current fault. I think this is what has happened in this case. Re coolant pipes comment from Roger. I must admit I didn't know about the problem batch and neither did my dealer, as I paid for the new pipes and the labour ! I'm not sure how long they should last but I live and work within a mile of the sea so can't consider my case typical. Re HGF I don't know what other dealers say but it I have been told unofficially by mine that they see MGF HGFs at a higher that expected rate. Maybe we could all ask or friendly MG dealer service staff. |
| Jon Baker |
This thread was discussed between 17/02/2000 and 26/02/2000
MG MGF Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.