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MG MGF Technical - MGF Cheetah

Hi.
Im new to the world of MGF's, having just purchased a supercharged Cheetah version of the MGF.

Ive been trying to find some more info on the Cheetah but havent had any luck. I wondered if anyone here had any more info.

Unfortunately there has been a couple of problems, the first being the car pulling to the left, especially when breaking. Secondly the steering wheel seems to be alligned further to the right.

The dealer wont look at it, as unfortunately 7 days after getting the car I hit another car damaging the front bumper and they are saying it is due to the accident even though it was doing ti before hand.

Any suggestions?

I was able to get the front bumper repaired as I was informed no one manufactures the Cheetah bumper any more.

Further to this, someone has said he does not believe the car is supercharged or it has had it taken out. Anyway of checking this for sure?

Thanks.
M Frost

You are not far away from one of the UK MGF specilists Mike Satur. He is in Rotherham. Give hims a buzz 01709 890555.

http://www.mikesatur.co.uk/mainmgf.html

Welcome to the world of MGFs and the BBS.
Steve Ratledge

The cheetah was done by stephen palmer who sadly I beleive went bust although I think B&G bought the rights to sell everything like body kit, exhaust etc.

I cannot remeber everything about the cheetah but the main difference was the supercharger and body kit.

Not sure if suspension was tweaked or brakes upgraded.

It should be easy to tell if the supercharger has been removed look in at the engine and see if you can see it, I am no expert but beleive it to be similar to a alternator and is driven by the engine (rather than turbo by exhaust gases. Whats the performance like.

As for steering get a specialist to check it and as you are in South Yorkshire I beleive the nearest could be Mike Satur but there are others like the MGF centre, Techspeed all these could also tell you if the supercharger has been removed.

Tom
Tom Randell

Welcome,

Nice to hear there's still a Cheetah around. They are very rare and one hell of a car when they are well looked after and treated well.

I've got an MG World (or MG enthusiasts) issue featuring a green Cheetah with all the options (incl. wheels, bodykit, dials, supercharger, ....

Can get you a copy (scanned in) if you want.

Cheers,

Erik

Article on the MGOC

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgoc&p=emg/mgfchee.htm

HTH
Richard P

First off, congratulations. :-) You have a VERY rare car indeed. Whilst there are a few Fs with the supercharger fitted by SP and there are also a few normal Fs witht he body kit, there are hardly any full SP Cheatahs - indeed if i recall correctly this is the first time anyone has posted on here claiming to own one :-)

OK, some information for you.

The Cheatah was a 'special' put together by Stephen Palmer Rover, a dealership based in Long Eaton. In a similar way to the 'University specials' put together by University Motors during the MGB era. The car was marketed under the SP Performance brand and was in the region of 30,000 new. This was it's biggest problem and the main reason it didn't sell very well. There was also a question mark over the reliability of the supercharger, mainly because the Cheatah was it's first outing and it was largely untested.

The SP brand was used quite a lot in the early days, key rings, fleeces, pens etc were available if you are interested. Stephen Palmer were the countries top selling MG dealership at the time, and there have been a number of rumours as to why they folded. I understand that Stephen himself now sells TVRs (or at least he did a couple of years ago). It might be possible to get in contact with him if you want to know more.

The Supercharger has been redesigned since it's application in the Cheetah, Turbo Technics have sold a lot of them to the Elise posse and they have effectively ironed out any bugs that may have been present on track days etc over the years. The question mark over it's reliability is now gone, but it is horrendously expensive.

Components involved and thier manufacturers:

Supercharger = Turbo Technics >> http://www.turbotechnics.co.uk/ <<

Wheels are AZEV alloys (not sure if they are 16" or 17")

Bodykit was made by Krafthaus, who became KH Fabrications, who went into receivership. The moulds to the body kit were bought by Brown and Gammons and they market it as the Cobra Kit >> http://www.brownandgammons.co.uk << Note, Krafthaus also made the front splitter (indeed the item was developed for the Cheetah), but it was changed slightly to enable it to be fitted to a normal F bumper (Rob Bell has the prototype). Therefore a normal splitter wont fit a Cheetah bumper. You need to make sure that you tell the suppliers that it is for a Cheetah/Cobra kit front bumper, or you'll end up with a normal F one.

Interior leather trim was by Mike Satur, he is based in Goldthorpe, near Wombwell South Yorks. He is also one of the top people in the MGF/TF aftermarket. >> http://www.mikesatur.co.uk <<

Exhaust system is the SP Supersport, SP contracted Miltek to manufacture a system for them for the Cheetah, this became very popular and after SP folded Miltek carried on making it. There are several versions available, very early ones are unbranded, later ones have the SP logo etched under the silencer box, the third generation had the SP logo on the tailpipe finishers. Finally, after SP ceased trading they were sold as the Miltek Supersports and this is how they are sold today. Note branding wasn't the only difference, early SPs are louder than later ones and the Miltek system is quieter still. If you want a replacement then you need to specifiy an 'SP spec' system. Brown and Gammons are one of the outlets for this system today. >> http://www.brownandgammons.co.uk <<

OK, i have a flyer somewhere (actually i think it's with Rob Bell, he was going to be doing some scanning in for his website). When i see him next i'll see if i can get some more info for you.

Hope this helps, welcome to the forum. :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

Thanks Andy......that answers any questions I had about my exhaust ( SP with logo on the finishers )

Do you have a huge filing cabinet with all this stuff in....!

Grahame
Grahame

http://www.xpower-mg.com/gallery/showgallery.php?si=cheetah&x=10&y=11
Erik

Thanks for all your info.

The first owner of the Cheetah I have was actually Stehphen Palmer.

The pictures of the Cheetah in the link http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgoc&p=emg/mgfchee.htm is actually the very car I bought.

I did contact Browne & Gammons regarding the front bumper, but they did say they no longer produce it. Although it was damaged in an accident it has been repaired.

The performance of the car is excellent, very very quick.

A couple of niggling things though, like the steering mentioned above and fan belt squeaking when starting though its back in at the dealers where I got it from next week to have everything fixed.

I dont think the dealer realised it was a supercharged version as I paid 6k for it, which seems in line for other normal 1998 VVC models.

Does anyone know how many were made or know of anyone else who has the Cheetah?

Thanks

Mike
M Frost

>I paid 6k<
If it is SC, you are laughing! Better find out for your insurance as wll though.
Richard P

I think it is supercharged because the dash from 0-60 is unbeliveable.

Anyway of checking the engine (I havent got a clue what im looking for)

Im lucky as my insurance company dont charge for mods (i work for them aswell) which is a good thing as i'm only 21!
M Frost

I don't know what it'd look like, but you could try timing it. VVC should be about 7sec 0-60, whereas the SC should be about 5.5secs.
Richard P

6 grand??

You are having a larf mate!

Bargain!! Jammy bu88er!

I did a report on this car in my column in MG World

Oeeerrrr!

Check the blower is still in there and all those little bits of heatsheild, you'll need them

Keep an eye on the coolant level, like everytime you open the boot!

But a great car to own

so ....Santa Pod??
Neil

Thanks again,

Its quite astonishing really, as at first I didnt realise what I had bought until I read something on the internet.

Neil, I have ordered a back copy of MG World from 1998, with the Cheetah vs a Boxter, as it looks like my car on the front page.

I heard somewhere aswell that Clarkson drove one on Top Gear?


Neil, what am I looking for with the blower and heatshield?!

Thanks again for everyones comments.
M Frost

>> Do you have a huge filing cabinet with all this stuff in....! <<

Funny you should mention it... ;-) Seriously though, i'm at work at the moment so the above is off the top of my head. Just a case of being there at the time i suppose :-)

-----------------

>> A couple of niggling things though, like the steering mentioned above and fan belt squeaking when starting though its back in at the dealers where I got it from next week to have everything fixed. <<

Not sure what could be causing the steering issue, although given the steering wheel is off centre i suspect it is a tracking issue, or maybe (worst case) steering rack (if so consider a TF one, faster lock to lock). Could be EPAS related but this is unlikely to affect the alignment of the steering wheel, hence my tracking assumption.

MGF has the rad fan on the radiator, which is at the front of the car. The engine being in the middle, means that there is no 'fan belt', it is electrically operated (as is the one in the engine bay). I suspect the squealing is the alternator belt, this is relevant to you because the supercharger sits directly above the alternator on the engine block and is itself belt driven. I suppose it is possible that it is this belt that is squealing, but given that the squeal is at or around start up then the alternator is the most likely suspect.

Check out this web page:

>> http://www.turbotechnics.com/cars/mgf.htm <<

There is a picture of the engine with the supercharger fitted (its the belt driven item with the blue spindle) and it sits above the alternator (grey item with gold coloured coils inside it below). Actually, looking at it now, it looks like the alternator and the supercharger share a drive belt - might complicate the squealing issue mentioned above.

Supercharger itself costs around 6K, so if it is supercharged then you have effectively got a free car!! Nice one :-D

>> Price Fully fitted conversion including warranty 5600.00 + VAT. Optional stainless steel exhaust system 350.00 + VAT. <<

SF
Scarlet Fever

>> I heard somewhere aswell that Clarkson drove one on Top Gear? <<

Close, Vicki Butler Henderson drove one (may even have been your one). She loved it at the time, but has chnaged her mind about the F since (this is a sore point amongst F fans!) :-)

As regards numbers, i'd be surprised if they sold more than 10 'full' cheatahs. Very, very rare car indeed. :-)

Oh, bring it along to Silverstone this year >> http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/silverstone.html << This is the worlds' largest gathering of MG (you'll be the only Cheetah there i can practically gurantee it!) It'd be nice to see one again after so many years, last time i saw one it was thier green demonstrator at Silverstone on SP's stand. Must've been 1998 ish.

SF
Scarlet Fever

MMMM, thanks again. Like I say its going in on Monday back to the dealer. It mostly does it when starting from cold or wet, (especially when wet as it sometimes does it when slowing down while driving)

Hope it aint nothing serious. Dont wanna pay 6k for a new supercharger, lol.

Ive got a 3 year warranty with the car, it does say factory fitted turbo chargers are covered but nothing about superchargers.
M Frost

Oh and one more thing, if you click on Erik's link above

>> http://www.xpower-mg.com/gallery/showgallery.php?si=cheetah&x=10&y=11
<<

...there is a gallery showing the SP Cheetah in three different paint schemes. From what you have told me it appears that the red one might very well be your car.

If you click on it and then look at the images below, the two pics to the left of yours show my car!!!! Bizarre that they should both be in the same gallery.

My F is the red one, reg N926 FEV (red + FEV = Scarlet Fever - long story!) And these shots were taken a while ago, my car now looks like this:

>> http://www.mgtf.be/images/FE_ScarletFever_01.jpg <<

SF
Scarlet Fever

Very bizarre, I think I saw your car on the MGF Centre site, is the one that was pranged and then totally re-paitned?

Im gettin a bit worried abwout the squeaking now after what you said!!!! But I should know on Monday.

Seriously tempted to go to Silverstone, sounds good fun!
M Frost

BOOO HOOO
I wanna come!!!

Janet, just as a loving wifey should do, arranged the holiday to coincide with my Birthday .... yeah 19th July!!!

So I'll be in Spain, which is nice, but you know where I would want to be that day!

So neither the F (A19 NJW) or the new ZT260 (FC 04 OFF) will be in attendance.

Mr Frost get yourself to the event
the guys are brilliant the event is brilliant and with a car like yours you will get a SERIOUS amount of attention, somebody may even make you an offer you cant refuse!!...but it wont be me!!

Neil

Yep, had an accident just over a year ago, did a lot of the work myself, but the MGF Centre handled the major stuff including the rebuild. :-)

Silverstone is excellent, one of the best events of the year. Miss it at your peril ;-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

Really sorry to miss it, seems like I MISS all these events!!

I presume Andy that the newly rebuilt SF will be there!!
Neil

>>> Seriously tempted to go to Silverstone, sounds good fun! <<<
Wasn't that part of the 6K deal ?

Hope to see the car at Silverstone !!

Erik

>I presume Andy that the newly rebuilt SF will be there!!<

He'd better. Theres two cars that stand out (because of their colour)in our convoy, Scarlet Fever and a Norfolk Mustard Yellow. Makes it easy to catch the convoy up if you get caught behind :O)
Richard P

Congratulations M Frost, I too would love to see your car.

I last saw it round the back of SP Performance in Long Eaton, just after they became a TVR dealer.

They also had a metallic green one on the forecourt at the time. I think it was a repainted volcano car, as the paint was flaking round the door handles, sorry I sound like Uncle Albert; during the war...

Anyway, I had a nightfire red VVC at the time and spent lots trying to turn it into a Cheetah.

Congrats again.

Chris

Hi Mike,

firstly, welcome to the world of the MGF! Secondly - congratulations on purchasing such a rare (and historical?) MGF! :o) For the money you paid, it is a steal! :o)

>>Unfortunately there has been a couple of problems, the first being the car pulling to the left, especially when breaking. Secondly the steering wheel seems to be alligned further to the right.<<

Not too much of a problem here (hopefully)
- as this is almost certainly down to tracking. The car needs 4-wheel alignment - usually costs about 40 quid from a decent tyre specialist. Or take your car to Techspeed Motorsport (a good idea actually, considering the performance of your car: getting sports suspension fitted could be a very good investment)
http://www.techspeed.co.uk

>> I was able to get the front bumper repaired as I was informed no one manufactures the Cheetah bumper any more. <<

Not sure about this. The people to talk to are actually British Motor Heritage (BMH)- who purchased all the moulds from KH Assemblies after they went under. Try http://www.bmh-ltd.co.uk/

>>Further to this, someone has said he does not believe the car is supercharged or it has had it taken out. Anyway of checking this for sure?<<

Should be a quick and easy visual confirmation. All MGFs have a black inlet manifold, whereas the Cheetah with its supercharger has a bare alloy inlet plenum. The inlet manifold is readily seen from the boot compartment. Open the boot and peer through the inspection grille. The inlet plenum is pretty much plumb centre. If a VVC, it ought to be black with a "VVC" logo on it. If silver coloured, chances are that the supercharger is still intact.

The surest way to be sure is to remove the inspection cover and look at the front right corner of the engine (the cam belt side). If the supercharger is still there, it'll be pretty obvious with belts and everything. Look at the Turbotechnics site for visual confirmation if unsure what you're looking at :o)

Fingers crossed!






http://www.bmh-ltd.co.uk/
Rob Bell

Thanks again for help.

Looking at the engine, it looks black with VVC on there. I can see one belt when looking at the right hand side of the engine.
M Frost

I think Rob may be a bit mistaken about the plenum. Certainly later versions of the Supercharger did use thier own inlet plenum (with built in intercooler as i understand it) but the early ones used the VVC alloy one.

The last Cheetah i saw had a VVC inlet plenum anyway and this was at Silvertsone in 1998 IIRC.

SF
Scarlet Fever

That's certainly possible Andy - the only examples I've seen are the later versions. Mike, yours is, as Andy rightly says, a very early version, so might, in fact, use the original black plenum?

The way to tell this is to determine whether there is any other pipes leading to the inlet manifold from the supercharger.

There's a picture of the front of the engine on Turbotechnics web site (an aspect of the engine that's never usually seen unless the engine is dropped down on its subframe out of the car). See http://www.turbotechnics.com/images/Image19.gif

On this, you can see a large diameter pipe on the right of the engine (on the left of this picture) from teh supercharger to the inlet plenum. I'd guess that it is 60-70mm in diameter - so not difficult to miss!!!

On a standard VVC, there is no large diameter pipe on the right of the engine bay. Have a look on your car, behind the coolant expansion tank. If there is a large diameter pipe, then you've got the supercharger. If not, then it has been removed for easier sale; not everyone wants the expense and complication of a supercharger :o(

If you have access to a digital camera, take some pix. Feel free to mail them to me - it should be possible to figure out this quandary one way or another! :o)

email: robert_dot_bell_at_ucl_dot_ac_dot_uk
Rob Bell

I would have thought the easiest way to check would be to rev the engine - if you can hear a whistle, that'll be the supercharger.

IIRC of the 4 cars done, your red one, a blue one, a green one and an anthracite one, some were un supercharged to reduce the price to shift them. I know the green one definatley was de supercharged while the anthrcaite one retained its charger, in fact the owner of that one posted on here for a short while.

A rare and nice car though - and a cracking buy - with or without the charger.

Paul
P9 VLS
Paul

You're absolutely right Paul - I've heard one of these cars in 'action' - and they make a whoosh sound similar to that made by a Turbo waste gate -unmistakable.
Rob Bell

" when you revved it, an unfamiliar cacophony of wines and whistles emanated from behind you, announcing the presence of the Rotrex supercharger. "

From http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgoc&p=emg/mgfchee.htm
John Thomas

SPECIFICATION FOR CHEETAH
18I VVC WITH ROTAX SUPERCHARGER RUNNING .45BAR BOOST
REMAPPED ENGINE MANAGMENT
SP PERFOMANCE EXHAUST
MAX POWER 207BHP AT 5500RPM
MAX TORQUE 162LB FT AT4500 RPM
TOP SPEED 150 MPH LIMITED
0-60 MPH 5.5 SECS
INS GROUP 14
BASIC PRICE 29,500
sr foster

Of course, the really important thing that everyone has missed so far is that if this is Stephen Palmer's original Cheetah (and seeing as he's listed as an owner it may well be) then the driver's seat alone is worth the 6k for having had the ample but well honed rear of one Miss Vicky Butler-Henderson gentle laid upon it when she roadtested the car for TG.
(Permission to go "Wibble"?)

I understood from the bloke at SP who oversaw the sale of my F from them :-) that MGR slapped Stephen's wrist then took away his franchise in the light of him breathing on their new roadster and showing the public how it could have been.
Cannonball Bob

My understanding is the same.

Althought wasn't it the BMW version of Rover that did this?

Wonder what would happen now?

All this time later and still no really hot car, just lots of unobtainable tempatation! (Supersports, etc)

SP should have been supported! Along with one or two others, IMO.

Chris

After looking at the engine, suggested by Rob, it certainly appears the Supercharger is still there.

Does anyone know how long they usually last and what problems they can create?

The red Cheetah I have is now registered as M6 FSP, originally was R810 LRA and was on the front cover of MG World in 1998.

After some checking, I can now confirm SP was the first owner and keeper. Still got the original warranty card with the docs with his signature on, lol!
M Frost

Please post some pics of your car (high res)
Dashboard,interior trim, 17'wheels,...
Pat

>> After looking at the engine, suggested by Rob, it certainly appears the Supercharger is still there. <<

Great news Mike :o) You've got yourself a corker of a deal there :o)

>> Does anyone know how long they usually last and what problems they can create? <<

Have a peep at the Lotus sites - they've got more experience with the supercharger installation on the K-series that we MG owners have. But the installation should be pretty robust. The supercharger itself should have similar longevity (or better) than a turbocharger - ie 100+ k miles. There will obviously be more strain on the engine/transmission - but the gearbox and clutch are man enough - they're the same as that found on the Rover 220 and 620 turbos...

Enjoy!

PS, does your car still have the 'Cheetah eyes' instruments fitted?
Rob Bell

Some instructions for picture posting.

This BBS doesn't support images, but if you can get them hosted elsewhere you can post a hyperlink to them.

Find your image, right click it and select 'properties'. Highlight the URL, then press CTRL+C to copy the URL of the image to the clipboard.

Type in a new reply on the BBS, then paste the URL into the text. Providing the 'http://www' part is there when you submit the post it'll become a clickable link.

SF
Scarlet Fever

Disaster struck today unfortunately. :o(
Took ym car to the Reg Vardy dealership where I purchased the Cheetah from, to have them check the steering, front fogs etc that I had problems with.

Left the car in a parking bay and went home.

Had a phone call 6 hours later to say the mechanic started my car in gear and didnt take it out with the car lurching forward into a brick wall and totalling the lights bumper etc.

Reg Vardy say the bumper is no good and needs to be replaced, but they wont take ANY responsibility as they say cars are left at owners risk and any damage they do not take liability for.

With the lights (headlights, fogs and indicators) bumper and paint etc, they told me I will have to pay them 800 for the work.

Further to this, they told me they found NO other faults with the car with regards to steering, squealing when starting etc.

I dont really know where I stand with this. Im absolutely gutted, knowing now it is vertually impossible to get hold of a new Cheetah bumper, after hours of phone calls this evening.
M Frost

>Had a phone call 6 hours later to say the mechanic started my car in gear and didnt take it out with the car lurching forward into a brick wall and totalling the lights bumper etc.

>Reg Vardy say the bumper is no good and needs to be replaced, but they wont take ANY responsibility as they say cars are left at owners risk and any damage they do not take liability for.

You are kidding right? =-o

I would certainly not accept that and would be making it very clear that they will be paying for any damaged they caused. While the car is left in their hands it should be covered by their insurance surely? Particularily as it was one of their employees driving the car at the time. :(
Paul Lathwell

M Frost,

Sounds to me like they are trying it on - I would not accept this situation and insist they pay in full for any repairs necessary.
Paul Lathwell

I still have their loan car they gave me, which I wont be returning until theyve repaired it!
M Frost

M Frost,

I hear you. ;-)

Perhaps you should ask them if they would mind you driving that into a wall - surely they would not expect you to accept responsibility? ;-)

I assume your own insurance has been transferred to cover their courtesy car while they have your car? This is the usual practice I believe and would normally entail your car being covered by their insurance during the same period. HTH - best of luck.
Paul Lathwell

Over on the lotus board a guy got a free repair when a staples truck reversed into it on garage property.

This is totally their fault - DO NOT accept anything less than a full repair (although you may have to accept a standard bumper - but you should be able to negotiate a spliter of your choice to help smooth the effect)

Accepting any offer makes it a final offer
Will Munns

To echo various previous comments on here - they must be joking! Their employee broke it, they should repair it or compensate you.

It might be worth speaking to a solicitor, just to check the legal position. I'm not suggesting you immediately threaten to take them to court (though it may come to that), but it could allow you to negotiate with confidence, to get a good deal as soon as possible. In the meantime - document everything!

Mark
Mark Roper

>> To echo various previous comments on here - they must be joking! Their employee broke it, they should repair it or compensate you. <<

I completely agree with you Mark - Mike, the dealership has *even* admitted that it was one of their own employees that totalled your front bumper!!! They are having a laugh at your expense.

Regarding the front bumper, have you tried contacting BMH? Tel: 01993 707200, Fax: 01993 707222

Failing that, you could always get a TF front end fitted if that is a look that takes your fancy... But it is a shame to modify such a historic* car

* - not sure that "historic" is entirely appropriate - but certainly significant in the early history of the MGF!
Rob Bell

>> Further to this, they told me they found NO other faults with the car with regards to steering, squealing when starting etc. <<

The steering is a tracking issue. Take it to an alignment centre to get everything squared up again.

The squealing will be the alternator belt. On your car, this belt is extended to also encompass the supercharger pulley. (Why the dealer didn't pick up the fact that your car is supercharged when there is a socking great compressor bolted to the side of the engine is beyond me!!!) Your best place for advice on this (ie - how tight the belt needs to be) is to contact Turbotechnics direct: Tel: 01604 705050, Fax: 01604 769668

Good luck on the hunt for a new bumper. BMH really are your best friends for this...
Rob Bell

M Frost...further to earlier suggestions. I think that you need to put all of this in wriitng to the dealer principal at Reg Vardy's, and make sure that you keep all copies. Do not negotiate with them on the telephone/ I would also talk to a soicitor and investigate making a claim against them in the small claims court (not sure what the limit is these days, but I think it should cover the 800 that you mentioned).
When you write to them , mention that you have taken legal advice and that you hold them responsible for damage to your property and would like to hear immediately about their proposal to make good your car.Make sure that you keep a copy of this letter - it may be important later if you have to sue. Another point: they mention that customers cars are left at "own risk"...is this prominently displayed or written anywhere that you could reasonably be expected to see it? Was your attention drawn to this disclaimer before you left your precious car with them? If so, then I guess that you would not have been happy to leave it...
Most important of all this is to WRITE to them -otherwise they can deny every thing that has been said.
Blue Max

M Frost.

Above you state that you work for your Insurance Company. Although you probably have Restricted Drivers, you should also be covered "while your car is with a member of the Motor Trade for servicing or repair". Your Insurers should then fight your corner.

Geoff F.
G. Farthing

It's definitly turbocharged....

It would make the world really funny/weird if the accident was your responsibility.

Have a quick check with MOSS, they had the Cheetah bumper for sale years ago.

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/MossUK/ContactUs.aspx

Hope you get it all sorted out.
Erik

Reg Vardy rang me today, to see when I was returning the loan car they gave me.

The response I gave was "I'm not until mine is in the condition it was when I brought it in"

Advised them I was about to seek legal advise and asked to speak to their manager.

After a lengthy conversation, they agreed to commence repairs on my vehicle at their expense.

I advised about the front bumper. They are going to contact various sources to try and locate one, if not they advised me, they have a company who they work with that could develop a replica from scratch? (dont know how difficult this could be)

They also said they will look at my car again and make sure everything is in 100% working order before it is returned.

Only problem is, hottest week of the year so far and theyve given me a 1.2 8 valve Clio!!
M Frost

> Only problem is, hottest week of the year so far and theyve given me a 1.2 8 valve Clio!!

Fastest car in the world is a hire car though ;-)
Bob Millar

Sounds like you've had a result (or a narrow squeak depending on your P.O.V.) ;-)

Shame about the Clio, but there'll be other sunny days... :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

Just wondering though, it appears I got the car at a snip at 6k.

What would be a realistic figure do you ppl think?
M Frost

Firstly - RESULT!

Secondly, I would have to say a trip to the MGOC would be in order for valuation, any less than that and your insurance just may not beleive you about the price.
Will Munns

Reg Vardy rang me today, to see when I was returning the loan car they gave me.

The response I gave was "I'm not until mine is in the condition it was when I brought it in"

Excellent. Hope it all works out.

"The red Cheetah I have is now registered as M6 FSP"

This is SO intriguing even Jonathan Creek would probably pass on it.
That registration (spaced so as to read "MGF SP") was on the Nightfire red MPi driven by the SP salesman who oversaw the sale of my F all those years ago...
Also I take it back about VBH's bum on the seat squab. She test drove a green one. Sorry!
Cannonball Bob

<they have a company who they work with that could develop a replica from scratch? (dont know how difficult this could be)>

VERY...VERY...VERY DIFFICULT
take it from one who knows

if they are going to do this, try and view or oversee the build. if not make sure you get something in writing about the build in the form of a warrenty. front bumper have to stand a lot of punishment and have to be fexible so must the method and materials .

to construct or blend two or more units that take a lot of vibration requires thought, design, care and experiece...most of which your garage have shown a lack of
i wish you good luck in bringing a section of history back to its former glory

gerry



gerry

M Frost

Making an exact replica is not that difficult using wet lay-up technique, but it is a skilled job. T

his entails repairing your original to a very high quality finish and only then can one move on to making an extra thick negative mould from the original in cheapo fibre glass resin, This has to be properly cured, checked for the correct dimensions and polished before building the positive. The best materials would be carbon/kevlar for strength with toughness, filled with a two-part epoxy resin. Not sure what your original was made from, but since most of the cost is labour, specifying better materials will only add about 10% to the overall cost. The best materials come from France, but a top-notch UK boat-builder (generally in SW England) would be a good source over here.

The problem is that many companies use underskilled staff who don't understand what they are trying to achieve. I've also come across firms that didn't even know that the fibres must follow the lines of greatest stress or that stress has to be diffused gradually into the main body. Or even worse are the cowboys who don't polish the negative, leave bubbles in the resin or simply don't use sufficent layers of cloth.
Most reputable firms use vacuum bagging for a stronger product and better quality finish. The critical part is ensuring fixing points are properly integrated into the rest of the lay-up and not glued on as an afterthought.
Wet lay-up is a science, not an art-form so choose a firm that understands the problems not some-one who just turns out hard-tops for cars.

Chris
Christopher Marshall

Why go to the trouble of making a new mould when the originals still exist? They are in the ownership of British Motor Heritage - unless they categorically say that there are no bumpers left and that they have no intention of making any more even after a specific request, I wouldn't even attempt the remanufacture route.

In all honesty, the original MGF bumper is not all that different in appearance to the Cheetah item, with the exception that the grille/air intakes are larger, and there is some wheel arch extensions. Probably the easiest and cheapest way forward would be to modify an MGF bumper so that it approximates the appearance of the Cheetah item.

Mike, I don't know what your thoughts are on this? How keen are you to keep this car 'original'?
Rob Bell

Got the car back today.

They managed to repair the front bumper, though there are some cracks in the paintwork (there were before but even the total re-spray doesnt seem to have got rid of them)

My fog lights now work aswell!

Theyve had a second look at the supercharger/alternator squealing and cant find anything.

Im about to go outside and take some pics and will post them on here later.
M Frost

They repaired the bumper? Okay - I hope they've done a good job. Might be an idea to see if you can locate a 'spare' front bumper in the eventuality that you might need it in future...

Look forward to seeing the pictures!

Are you planning to get along to Silverstone?
Rob Bell

@ M Frost - glad you got your car back and are happy with it.
Whereabouts in S. Yorks are you as I'm just over the border in Notts, about 15 mins South of Donny, could always meet up as the F fraternity seems a little thin on the ground around here.
Fancy a run round the Shropshire countryside on Sunday as part of the Midland F Register? I'm off down myself and should be a good day, a fine opportunity to give the Cheetah a blast.

Cheers, Phil
Phil '99 Solar Red VVC

Hi Phil.

Im actually in Doncaster (scawsby if you know it)

Being in Notts, are you close to Retford etc?

Hopefully going to Silverstone. In the process of setting up my own business so things are hectic at the mo!

Got the pictures took today. Going to upload them to some webspace later so will link it to here so you can all have a look!
M Frost

Hi,
Yeah I'm in Retford and work in Rosso actually, so not a bad guess there mate. Be nice to catch up and have a look at your Cheetah sometime, sounds very interesting.

Phil
Phil '99 Solar Red VVC

More problems with my Cheetah unfortunately :o(

Seems that when Reg Vardy fixed the front fogs they've done something to the heaters and they dont work at all.

Also the right wheel is rubbing harshly on the arch when you turn the wheel full lock to the left.

Its been in again but they arent budging with the wheel arch. They said as it isn't standard spec they wont touch it, even though it is their carless fitting that has caused it.

The re-spray on the fornt bumper has also started to split and flake, but they wont re-spray it.

Im totally hacked off about to phone Trading Standards and see what I can do.
M Frost

It often comes down to this

I find that taking the piss is a good way to deal with them!

They really should getthe car right for you if they sold it to you unless you have caused the damage!
Neil

>something to the heaters and they dont work at all.

Sounds like an airlock - be careful, if they've made an ar*e of this you head gasket may blow - eek, see Robs site for bleeding procedure (so at least you know it's right)

>Also the right wheel is rubbing harshly on the arch when
>you turn the wheel full lock to the left.

This is TADTS, caused by larger wheels - the solution is to see where it rubs and heat the plastic with a hot air gun and push it back - this was a MG apporved fix for this problem when they put 205's all round (someone will be along to tell you the model soon)


Will Munns

Hmmm "Reg Vardy".
Well I guess this is what happens when someone with a name more suited to running a minicab firm takes up fixing cars instead.
Not retreat, no surrender.
Keep chipping away, they have an alleged reputation to protect, you don't!

Once my car's out of the paintshop I'll let you know how good a match the colour is and pass details on if you're interested. Very good rates btw ;-)

And Will, what's "TADTS"? :-/
Cannonball Bob

They All Do That Sir :)
tony

Crikey, I beat Will, that must be a first!
tony

When I said the heaters dont work, I meant the blowers dont work. Heat still comes through but I can increase how hard they blow.
M Frost

A few pics of my Cheetah can be seen at the following URL:

http://www.carsalesuk.net/info.php?id=4

Please note, my car isn't really for sale!!

I just uploaded them to a site im working on to test out!

(Feel free to put up for sale your cars!!)

Part of the new business im starting, lol

Hope you like the pics!
M Frost

Mike, does the heater fan work on any of the settings? Not unheard of for the resistor pack to burn out - see Dieter's website for more information: http://www.mgfcar.de/heater/heater.htm

The car looks amazing still on the photographs: good to see that it has even retained it's original wheels!

Any chance of a picture of the engine bay and instrument pack? :o)
Rob Bell

Bit off topic but could I suggest smaller image resolution for your site?
For us luddites on dial-up narrow band carrier pigeon, the images took FOREVER to load!
Cannonball Bob

Bob....

If they were Cavegirl pix....you'd be happy to wait all day !!!!!

;0)
Grahame

No, none of the heating settings work, i just get the air that always comes through, though it will heat when warmed up.

Thought it as strange they stopped working when I got the car back after having the front fogs done.

Blown fuse possible? I havent checked yet but will do
M Frost

>> Blown fuse possible? I havent checked yet but will do <<

Definitely a possibility.
Rob Bell

I spoke to Trading Standards about it all who told me to write to the dealers manager and give them 7 days for them to give me a satisfactory explantion on what they are going to do to put the faults right.

I sent a letter on Monday and not heard anything yet!
M Frost

This thread was discussed between 11/05/2004 and 26/05/2004

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