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MG MGF Technical - MGTF Immobiliser nightmare

I am stripping down a rolled mgtf to use the parts in another vehicle, I have the complete car and wanted to make sure it ran before stripping, but dont have the imobiliser. I do have the ign key, but thats it no paperwork etc.

Am I stuffed, or is there a way round this, I am organising another fob in the hope I can get it programmed to the ECU, the immobiliser will not be needed in the other car.

Cheers

Joe
Joe

Joe

If you have the V5 (or whatever to show you own the car) any dealer with the old MGR computer should be able to give you the security code which you can then use 'manually' to unset the immobiliser.
Ted Newman

No V5 it was an insurance right off, I have bought it as salvage for the engine and box. Its also not really in enough of a state to go to a dealer as is

http://silicon.fastnet.co.uk/specialist-car/php/objectlist.php?cid=124
Joe

>the immobiliser will not be needed in the other car.

how are you planning on acheiving that?
Will Munns

Bit of a hassle, but you could transplant the ECU from the recipient vehicle to the donor.

Sam
Sam Murray

Ok, I better explain what I am doing, I will be using the engine box and loom in a completly different car, http://www.specialistautomotive.com
We thought we would try the higher output engine as the last car only weighed 550 kg with the 1400 K series. So should be a bit swift with the 160PS.
The loom will be stripped of all but the essential components.

Hey think of it as a green recycling project for MGTF's
Joe

Looks like FUN!
Sam Murray

Its should be, providing we get it in and running.
I was hoping there might be a work around for this, or some handheld device that could be plugged in to unlock it?
Or maybe some wiring trick to send a signal to the ECU.

Cheers

Joe

Joe

OK, so you have another ECU for the 1.4, and you don't want to program it up?


I think you ought to accept that the engine runs or the car wouldn't have managed to crash, and fit the engine in the new car. Any car is easier to work in than the F, the k series engine is not difficult at all, just an ar*e to access.

except if you have chassis rails then the alternator is in a bugger of a position, so I would change the belts while the engine is out.
Will Munns

>>Bit of a hassle, but you could transplant the ECU from the recipient vehicle to the donor

Unfortunately that is not possible as the 1400 ECU doesn’t have the necessary software or hardware to operate the VVC mechanisms on a 160 VVC engine. I'm also guessing that the 1400 is EU2? (i.e. pre 2001) which means the ECU wouldn't connect to the TF160s EU3 harness anyway, as the 2 are not plug compatible.

Only way I can see to get round it is to buy another TF160 engine ECU together with the immobiliser ECU and key fobs from the same car, which will all be coded to work together.
I don’t know if you removed the engine ECU from the car and took it to the dealer along with the fobs and an immobiliser ECU sourced from elsewhere, whether they would/could recode them to work together without them actually being fitted to the car. Though you would still need proof of ownership of the vehicle (i.e. a V5).

Also the only way I can see of running the 160 engines in the recipient car without using the immobiliser is if you fit an Emerald ECU. At the moment this is the only aftermarket ECU available with the facility to operate the VVC mechanisms, and I believe it doesn’t need to be connected to an immobiliser ECU to work like MEMS does. Only problem with that is that I'm not sure if the Emerald is available in a from that is plug compatible with the EU3 engine harness yet, so you may have need to buy/make an EU2 to EU3 conversion loom.

I'm very interested to hear a how you get on as I am about to undertake the fitting of an EU2 non-VVC engine, harness and aftermarket ECU into an EU3 TF160. I am expecting that I may need a way of bypassing the immobiliser to get it to work, so if you find a way to do it I'd be very interested to know how. If there are any connectors removed from the TFs engine loom that you don’t want, I could be interested in purchasing them too ;o)
Steve White

On the 400 I brought for transplant you could unimobilize the car by disconnecting the battry breifly! (i think they fixed that feature).

The ECU can only be reprogrammed by Rover, but if you are planning on using the loom and the ECU you have then it isn't worth it.
Will Munns

I am not rebuilding the 1400, we are building another car from scratch, so we wanted to use the loom and ECU's from the MGTF.
I have learnt in the past that its better to sort all this out before stripping out the donor car. Once someone is presented with a loom and all the associated bits plugged into it they normally go into hiding.
The aftermarket ECU sounds and interesting avenue but a bit depressing knowing we have one here. Although maybe it will give a performance increase of some sort as well.
I can see I may need to employ the services of some electronis guru's, if I find away round getting the standard ECU to operate without the imobiliser and unlock it I will post it.

Cheers

Joe
Joe

There isn't one, also IIRC there is a dependancy on using the same MAP sensor as the ECU you use.

Take pics of the car, take your recipt, take the vin number and see what rover have to say about unlocking the reprogramming the ECU to take the new fob (you will probebly have to present them with the car).

This isn't really the right board to be asking about this on, you should wander over to the "twin cam k-series midget and B's" board where we do this every month.

I have a 1600 k series midget and it's great with all that power (110BHP) and only 1/2 the weight of an F, looks like you will have even more power and only a 1/3 of the weight.

Hope you have sticky tyres!
Will Munns

Joe,

These people may be able to help, for a price.
http://www.alarmremotes.co.uk/index.htm
Ken Waring

Hello Joe,

nice you found the way to the right place here :)
(we had some emails last night)
The engine and ECU's are from a very early MG TF, so state of the art according to MG TF 160 (VVC)

I'd go the way that Will said and you mentioned yourself already.
Find a good helpful workshop and talk to them about the needs and options.

- approve it is your "car". (dead easy in this case).
- ask for availability of a T3 or T4 Testbook.
(Required to read out the EKA code from the alarm ECU)
- ask for the option to do this at your alarm ECU.

Electric Parts required for easy conversions is IMO
- engine harness
- Engine ECU
- Alarm ECU
- Transponder thing from the ignition lock
- SRS ECU with yellow colour coded harness
- Drivers door lock (for manual key code input)
...
....
(May be I missed some ?)

and of course all the connectors for the above plugs. Best with the complete main harness.
I'll send some stuff on TF electrics by email later this night.
Dieter

the immobiliser can be defeated by 'hot' wiring the wires from the black box, of course it is not feasable to post this info here but speak to a good auto electrician or try one of the scroats in the midlands ;-)
Tim

Well I managed to get a dealer to release the code to me, I also found the manual and followed the instructions but still no joy.

I have done a bit of prep work ensuring that bonnet switch, rear boot lock all are closed. Also had to fix a fault with the central locking not working on the passenger door just in case. I am assuming the hood doesn't have a trigger on it as its mangled half open?

When I unlock the door the flashing red light goes out now, but on opening the door it comes on solid, on pos2 on the ign switch the bleeper goes off and no cranking.

If I try to unlock the door then leave it closed, the light is off but when I get to pos2, no cranking and bleeper again.

I have checked the number on the rover computer via 2 dealers so I believe it to be correct. I have manually entered it via the Drivers door 5 times now, but hey.

If all else fails I will use one of the after market devices that work by disconnecting the ECU feed and force the ECU to bond with a new number.

Nightmare..............
joe

Thanks for all your help guys, I am going to park this for a few days and consider the best route. The options are as follows

Order new FOB with code in it 3rd party only, hoping I have the right code!

ECU goes off gets hacked to a new 3rd party imobiliser module comes back matched, no need for FOB ever!.

I buy the kit to do the above ECU Hack myself, useful if I ever change ECU's or do the same conversion again!!! only works on MEM3 systems.
(although toyota 4G lined up for the next car!)

Thanks again

Joe
Joe

Joe

There were a number of early *F*s where the numers in the computer were out by one or two digits - you had to increase something like the third digit by one .... can not remember the exact sequence but I am sure someone out there will.

DickPullar

Another one of the advantages of having owned the *F* for ten years:-)
Ted Newman

Even I knew that - nothing new ! and not much help to Joe other than another meaningless contribution by yourself
Dick Pullar

Ted, I thought that, but this is a MGTF 160, so that was fixed long before this car was born.

I would make sure that the door switches are doing what you expect of them using the diagrams I sent you before giving up.

Also I would see if someone could give you a demo of typing in the number on a working car, IIRC it is not intuitave (I never got it to work, but I got bored before I ran out of options, and my car is an early one probebly with the above fault)
Will Munns

I suspect your right on door entry method, it could well be pilot error on my part.

Anyone out ther deactivated ther immobiliser by using this method??

Cheers

Joe
Joe

Yes, it does work. But it did take me a while to work out the right sequence (especially as my car IS one of the early Fs supplied with the incorrect immobiliser codes!)

Is the 5AS imobiliser still connected, or has one of the loom plugs worked itself free?
Rob Bell

I have had a good look at the 5AS in the centre console, seem ok to me.
Do I have to leave a certain amount of time between any aspect of the procedure.

Its annoyng as I would have the whole lot in bits by now and the shell would be off to the scrapyard.
Joe

joe i can e-mail the correct procedure to you for inputting eka code using drivers door lock if you require
regards andy
zs-andy

Joe, put the alarm system through a diagnostic - it's covered here: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY/simple_procedures/diagnostic_tests.htm

This should reveal whether the alarm is functioning as it should...
Rob Bell

Sorry to change the subject...But you mentioned shell. Is the bootlid undamaged?
Chris Heinrich Perkins

Forget that, I've looked closely at the pictures, and it isn't is it!
Chris Heinrich Perkins

I have tried the procedure as described in the owners handbook on the drivers door lock.

I will give the test procedure a go, I do wonder about the volumetric sensors the roof is in a half opened position, I wonder whether this may be causing a problem? where and what is it?
Joe

nope, the alarm is off because you opened the door with a key, and even if you had not the roof makes no diffrece to the microwave sensors
Will Munns

Yes, forget the microwave sensor. Just disconnect it.

Notice, this is MK2 alarm system with passive coil in the ignition lock and transponder function with the blipper.
Dunno what influence a short circuit there at the coil would have.
Dieter

Joe - can you drop me an email about the parts on this car you don't need? robert dot m dot bell at kcl dot ac dot uk

BTW, I know we've been talking about this TF being an early car - but this particular example happens to be wearing MY2005 wheels for a TF135...
See http://silicon.fastnet.co.uk//specialist-car/php/uploaded/epsn0002(5).jpg

Joe, can you confirm the vehicle's engine number and VIN number? I am sure that you've already spoken to Dieter about this, but the pictures and the claims made for the car don't seem to add up... :o(
Rob Bell

Mmm, I will pull the column apart and have a look, although you would expect that area to be quite tamperproof.
It could be that without a signal from the fob the alarm comes on automatically, assuming that even if you do a manual disable on the door, you still have the fob on the ign key?
Joe

Hi Rob

Chassis number SARRDLBPC2D601056 service book and car confirm this number

A number of bits were swapped priro to me getting it, I also have a bent fornt subframe from another MGF, but not hydrogas or TF? Joy
Joe

I see - that makes sense of the pictures. Those wheels, for example, may have value to someone...

I can't see evidence of tampering with other crucial components though?

Have you performed the alarm diagnostic described on this webpage yet? http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY/simple_procedures/diagnostic_tests.htm
Rob Bell

Hi Rob, right just done the test, as soon as I turn the ign on the bleeping alarm come on but when I turn off I get no single blip, tried it a few times but the system is as it was before. As usual done it by the book.

So pulled out the 5AS no loose connections, stripped the coloumn found the coil pack 12v all the time down one side, other side must go to the ECU?

You see I think its something else cuasing the problem, I am inclined to thing the door lock procedure should work, but somiething else on cranking position is immobilising the car. My reason for this is can unlock the door without opening and get the light off, only when I either open the door or turn the key to cranking do I bring up the alarm.



Joe

Everything you say makes it sound like it is working fine.

the imobalizer and the alarm are seperate functions, you switch the alarm off just by using the key - it will stay off till you take the battery out or lock the car with the fob, you switch the imobalizer off by typing in the number with the key, it will stay off untill you lock the car with the fob (possibly also disconnecting the battery will turn it back on).

I really think you need someone with a working car to show you the procedure - for now I would assume that everything is working electricly if it is not obviously physicly broken.
Will Munns

But if I have unlocked the door and put the flashing alarm light out, why does it come on solid (with the interior light) as soon as I open it? Is that normal? is that sort of saying the alram is off but the immobiliser is on still?

Of course I could have the wrong code, but the rover dealerw said they rarely change and the computer is normally updated if it does?







Joe

yep all normal, and yup thats what it is telling you.

I really think that your problem is that you don't know how to enter the code rather than you are entering the wrong code.
Will Munns

Of course, one of the other reasons why the code didn't work in mine was that the innners of the door lock had corroded, and it might be that the microswitches are not playing ball anymore
Will Munns

Ok,I wired up a horn on the wreck in the hope that it might help.

So now if I put in the wrong code, it goes of once. If I enter my code nothing, except light goes out and comes on when the door opens, but the immobiliser is still on.

I tried reversing the code, but I get a toot again when I finish.

Now this tells me that I am entering the right code, so what else stops one of these from cranking and brings the alarm light on with the buzzer
Joe

Sorry what I mean is can someone list the other reasons the immobiliser cuts in.

I will list some I have come accross in the past

In Gear?
No fuel pressure?
No accelerator pedal pressed (mitsubishi??)
Airbags deployed? which of course have on mine?
Brake fluid?

Any suggestions

Cheers

Joe
Joe

Hi some more sugestions

ABS died
Car in a flipped over state, (apparantly porsche boxters imobilise in this condition)
Seat belt pretensioners gone off?


Joe

I know the F does not do any of these, the TF might be diffrent, but I doubt it unless there is some european directive on the matter.
Will Munns

Does the fuel cut off switch link to the alarm/imm circuit?
Joe one

nope, the alarm circuit feeds the fuel cutoff, there is no way that the ECU can know that the fuel is cut off.
Will Munns

As Will says, there is almost nothing remotely clever about the 5AS based immobiliser.

The reason for suggesting the alarm check is to test that the driver's side door lock is functioning, but if the microswitches are defunct, this may not help. That said, the central locking would work correctly: I assume that when you lock the driver's door, the passenger side locks and vice versa? I would think that this would confirm the correct operation of the lock microswitches.
Rob Bell

>I would think that this would confirm the correct operation of the lock microswitches.

I don't think it does, because there is a mechanical link to the plunger, so the door lock can pick up the movement of the plunger and act on that rather than the key, and you know that doesn't do anything to the imobalizer.

I don't know if the car should chirp when right or wrong, but it sounds promissing.

I also don't know if the TF fob has a passive antenna as well as an active one, if so then it is possible that the car will fail to start without the fob as the imobalizer shut off is for people who have flat betteries rather than those without fobs.

Does anyone have an upto date RAVE CD with alarm description?
Will Munns

Well due to my frustration a colleague appeared this afternoon and I let him spend an hour with the key the code and the manual.

After about an hour of chirping the swearing cut in, but hes observation was you only get one chance to put the code in via the door, once the horn has tooted he seems to think that any code after that seems to not cuase the horn to toot and is irrelavent. I tried it and he was right, we had to wait 5 miniutes before a code entry caused a toot. then if we waited another 5 minutes what we beleived to be the correct code causes a toot as well?

But like me he thinks it weird that unlocking the door turns the alarm off and the alarm light goes out, only to come on on cranking, I explained it had 2 seperate systems, alarm and immobiliser.

We came to the conclusion not enough info, we need an accurate description of the manual function of disabling the immobiliser form the door with alarm light activity against each specific action.

The central locking all appears to work fine passenger door follows the drivers, I have had the lock mech out, therE is a bit of lost movement in the rod assembly form the key barrel gave it all a spray up with WD. Maybe the accident has stuffed the lock.
Joe

Just a thought: you've reset the inertia switch?

Just got home, so I'll drop you an email tomorrow.

The immobiliser code over ride is entered as following:

Driver's door lock, insert key.

Turn key to 'lock'.

This where you'll need your immobiliser code. say it's 2345.

Turn key to unlock twice, allowing key to return to neutral on each occassion.

Turn key to lock three times, allowing key to return to 'neutral' between times.

Turn key to unlock four times etc

Trun key to lock five times etc.

Now unlock car.

The indicator light will stop flashing, and you can start the car.

If the code has been entered incorrectly, then you hear a warning sound when you move the key to the final 'unlock'.

If this happens, open and close the door to clear the error (clearly, you'll need to make sure that the door sensor is working correctly - and the interior lamps illuminate as expected).

The code can then be re-entered.

If you input the code incorrectly 3 times in a row, you will be prohibited from entering the code again for 10 minutes.

So to recap, you have to turn the key in the correct direction the appropriate number of times. If the code has been entered incorrectly, you'll hear a beep. Open and close the door to clear the error. If wrong 3 times on the trot, go make a cup of tea and find something to break... ;o)

Hope this helps
Rob Bell

Hi Rob,

Thats exactly what I have been doing, but only get a bleep on the first attempt, then nothing on the second.

Inertia switch?? tell me more?
Joe

inertia switch is downstream, the dash would make no noise and the car would crank. When you get to this point you will find on the far LHS of the engine bay a black box with a rubber button, push this to reset the switch.
Will Munns

You're right Will - but I wondered whether MEMS gives a return signal to the 5AS? The wiring diagram isn't entirely clear on this?

Joe - worth a try verifying the test procedure. I guess there is a chance that the dealer may have provided the incorrect code in error - but the fact that two dealers gave you the same number would appear to go against that...

The door open sensor is okay (to clear the error code)?
Rob Bell

Hmm - looking at the 2001MY electrical diagram, there is a feed back from the inertia switch - bown/slate grey - and indirectly via the ECU relay.

As the car has been rolled, it is certainly worth resetting the inertia if it has been 'popped'...
Rob Bell

Hmm - thinking about this, the feed via the relay may be an output rather than input - will need to study the diagrams a bit more.

One other thing - it may be worth checking that all the fuses are okay? Chances are a couple may have blown in the roll-over.
Rob Bell

I will give the inertia switch a go. I did a fuse sweep when getting some of the electrics working. I used the dash lights for sorting boot and bonnet open, I still get the SRS light but it says that comes on anyway.

I think the door open sensor is fine as its the door opening which when unlocked and the alarm light goes out, opening the door brings it on.

I am afraid I will go out and send the ECU and everyting else off only to find when I fit it back in it still wont go.

I would suspect it may have no fuel or water in it. I wasnt going to start on that till it cranked.
Joe

quite.

the microswitches can and do die, and people don't realize because they never use the key. but it sounds like you have it working
Will Munns

Well the inertia switch had tripped, I can now here the fuel pump etc when the ignition goes on, so I think its time to send the ECU and 5AS off to be syncronised with a new Fob.
Joe

As I was thinking I was had an earlier MGf that was hit in the rear and the engine would not start as if immobilazed until the inertia switch was reset.I had a quick look at the wiring diag and the fuel pump inertia switch has a link to the engine control module.
Joe one

>> Well the inertia switch had tripped, I can now here the fuel pump etc when the ignition goes on, so I think its time to send the ECU and 5AS off to be syncronised with a new Fob. <<

Progress of a sort I guess Joe. But I presume that running through the immobiliser key-turning process does not result in inactivation?
Rob Bell

No Im pretty stuck, I only seem to get one shot at the key turning process, it toots, then after that its silent whatever code you put in. I have not rushed in stripping out the ECU etc as I still struggle to believe the code is wrong or the 3 people that I have placed in front of the drivers door with the key & manual fail as I do with the procedure.
But with so many variables like do you start this with the door locked? alarm light flashing? one must also assume the door is closed? Bonnet Boot shut? the list goes on and I would like to think I have exhausted most options. As has been said it would be good to see this procedure on a working car.

I am pleased the inertia switch was on as it limits the amount of damage that could be done to the car, most happily drive cars around a yard with no fluids in them, and as these lumps seem a bit delicate it was a worry.

So some good news,

I have someone who beleives thay have a device from a rover garage that looks like a fob with a wire and connector on it for turning off the immobiliser, if its cheap I might try that first. I can then start stripping it all out then.
Joe

Where abouts in Sussex are you Joe? Either I, or one of the other guys here could probably pop by and try the immobiliser procedure on a car that we know to work!
Rob Bell

Hi Rob,
I am in Sayers Common, West Sussex, 2 mins of the main A23.


Cheers
Joe
Joe

Okay - a shortish trip down the A23 then. Not sure that I can make this weekend Joe - anyone else in the area?
Rob Bell

Just a couple of comments. Entering the EKA will if successful result in the flashing alarm LED to extinguish. Where the EKA is incorrectly entered the horn emits a short warning beep. In the event of an incorrect entry opening and closing the drivers door provides a cancellation of the previous entry, BUT your only allowed three attempts before the system locks you out for a period of 10 minutes.

The repeated attempts to enter the EKA is clearly indicating there is come corruption in either the entering or the systems ability to interpret the input.

When a car is involved in a severe impact the inertia switch triggers and in doing so the alarm power supply is disconnected and the central locking automatically unlocks the doors.

The nature of the problem does strike me that there is corruption in the system following the collision. I may have missed comment on the source of the 5AS and MEMS3 controller, but the circumstances does give me the thought that the MEMS unit or the 5AS and fob ares NOT the one originally on the car. This would then provide a perfectly sensible reason for the positive communication between a matched fob and 5AS but the EKA will not match. Also when the alarm is disarmed on the fob the initial repsonse is positive, but the comms between the 5AS and MEMS then fails to synchronise.

Just a possibility of course, but one I have come across with a recent 'complete' VVC engine and MEMS3 etc allegedly removed from one car. The MEMS label was damaged and it failed to work when fitted in the donor car. This was an older Rover 400 with the wiring modified from MEMS 1.98 to full MEMS3. Not until I plugged the car into T4 and was able to extract ECU information I was found to be from an MPi engined car. Forcing the 5AS and MEMS unit to communicate bypassed the security lock out and allowed the engine to be run with the wrong map, although this meant the VVC wasn't operative and the cam sensor was also non functioning as the signal pattern of MPi and VVC cam sensor signals is fundamentally different. The point here is that a VVC engine can be run by the non VVC ecu if that has been matched to the 5AS. That would allow the car to be driven to anywhere with T4 for in depth diagnostics.

There are non OE systems for plugging into the diagnostic port and programming alarm systems, such as the one I have from Avon Diagnostics (www.avon-automotive.co.uk) that allows you to programme fobs and importantly here, read the EKA embedded in the 5AS. This code is embedded in the MEMS3 unit and here I feel the MEMS and 5AS have different numbers. The benefit here is to confirm the EKA allocated to the damaged car is in fact the same as what is embedded in the 5AS. The Avon unit and T4 can then force the 5AS to learn the code in the MEMS, and further T4 can work on MEMS too.

The benefits of being able to confirm this data is I feel fundamental to taking a positive step forward. The problem is that unless you take the fobs, 5AS and MEMS to an electronics specialist you need the car to provide the wiring and power functions to operate the system.

Rog
Roger Parker

Hello Rog

I have sort of arrived at that conclusion. A couple of points though, I have a complete MGTF car in the the ECU has the chassis number stamped on it and I would assume the the 5AS is original. It did not look like the console panels had been removed and the loom was still all clipped into place. I have never had a fob for the car, only a ign key. Everything is still sitting in the original car, as I am not starting the strip down till I have it running etc.
I do only seem to get one chance to enter a code even if I open the door after a toot, no amount of code entering produces another toot. Except batery diconnection and leaving it for a length of time.

I must be honest reading round this forum, I am keener now to get it running than I was when I arrived here, HGF failure sems to still haunt these cars, we will be installing a remote thermostat housing as I have heard that helps but it seems the 160PS engine is even more frail.

Joe

Ok, I have had a little widget sent to to me, pictures here http://silicon.fastnet.co.uk/specialist-car/php/objectlist.php?cid=125 it has the words learn and unlock on each button, but the connecter looks a bit weird. It also has the rover symbol on on it.

No instructions though, this is a longshot but anyone recognise the block connector on it?

It came from a Rover dealer shut down apparantly

Cheers

Joe

Joe

joe thats a unit for programming fobs on city rovers only indian made by tata will not help with your dilemma

regards andy
zs-andy

Oh well, it didnt cost much so worth a look, I am assuming that dont have a 5AS system
Joe

sorry mate no 5as in the city rover and the worst thing is those reprogramming fobs are vehicle specific so it will not work in any other city rover that the one it came with

regards andy
zs-andy

Well Progress, managed to get another 5AS with 2 matched fobs, they dont do anything but I can get to to the cranking position and get a click on the starter, plus the alarm light is now out.
More fault finding and I discover no main feed to the starter!
Then discover wire chopped under car!! must have done it when it rolled, fixed that.

Engine still wont turn over much though, either by hand or starter, have a nose in the timing cover all looks ok, remove plugs and crank, looks like I have struck oil!!! (neighbours not to impressed with that).

Keep cranking but depression sets in as it sounds like a bag of spanners, or more aptly an small end or broken camshaft! dmaged piston, is this normal on VVC engines??

Well put plugs back in and to my amazement it started runs for a second then cuts out. I can here it has fuel presssure as the pump continues for a little while after it stops, its as though is just running on one squirt, if I use throttle as I start it it revs but still cuts out quick.

I am a bit confused as it sounded awful with the plugs out,but starts up and for the time its running oil light goes out and sounds fine. It will also crank over fine now.

So suggestions as to imediate cutting out, Lamda coated in oil? Timing belt jumped a tooth?





Joe

Could this still be an immobiliser fault???

I thought the imobiliser just stopped cranking and firing?

Cheers

Joe
Joe

Joe - I would think that the 'bag of spanners' sound was probably the hydraulic tappets running without oil pressure? But then again - tappets are pretty distinctive, so perhaps not...

Great news that you've got a good deal further with the problem since the last post - incredible that the cable had sheared! Who'd have thought?

Immediate cutting out may suggest another electrical problem - possibly sensor related. Check the operation and connections of the cam and crank sensors.

Good luck!
Rob Bell

Well another evening of dabbling,

Managed to get the remotes syncronised so they now operate the central locking.
Failed to susscessfully get the alarm system into test mode.

On unlock I get the Alarm light out opening the door no longer brings it on. But ign on brings on 4 bleeps space 4 bleeps etc, even when it runs for its short period.

I have one fob on the keyring, but pressing unlock on the fob does not halt this 4 bleep cycle.

I have now got water in the system, unclipped the air filter just in case it was clogged, also tried disconnecting the Lambda sensor.

Do these have a cold start injector?

Am I done with the immobiliser, from what I have described with the short running can I assume its off?

I think it may be time to buy a manual,

Thanks for your help

Cheers

Joe

Joe

>> Do these have a cold start injector? <<

No, no cold start injectors.

It sounds as though the immobiliser issue has been over come - which leaves this problem with the engine refusing to run more than a couple of seconds... Sensor check time I think.
Rob Bell

Just a quick not to say I have started putting some of the bits up on ebay I know a couple of you have asked about parts etc. http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZskatesite.co.ukQQhtZ-1

Cheers

Joe
Joe

"Sorry you've had so much trouble, IMHO you need an F they are much better than TFs except for the headlights."
C.R.B. Simeon

<"you need an F they are much better than TFs except for the headlights." >

I wouldn't have thought there was much difference when they have both been rolled over!
Ted Newman

This thread was discussed between 20/04/2006 and 06/05/2006

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