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MG MGF Technical Painted headlight - does it effect the efficiency BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG MGF Technical - Painted headlight - does it effect the efficiency
| Hello all! Looking at my F's front, she does give a rather "nice" impression. Some MGF owners has painted the reflector part of the headlight in the same color as the car. As an example Manfred's home page http://www.roadstervision.de/fotos/mgf276.jpg . The car does look more "aggressive". Off cource, a matter of taste. One question before even considering such a paint job. What is the experience with this mod? Does it effect the headlight efficiency? None, marginal, small, moderate, big, huge... ? I would appreciate some comments on this topic. Driving in Sweden can be a dark experience and a decent headlight is essential. Regards, Ronny |
| Ronny Peschel |
| ...why would you want to get rid of all that loverly shiney crome?? c'mon Dave B, tell em...... |
| Steve |
| ..cover ye not the metal of the gods (etc) ... |
| David Bainbridge |
Hi Ronny, don´t think the "useful" light will be decreased but most certainly the "excess" light that goes in all directions will be less. This phenomen is obvious when driving in a dark tunnel as a beam of light extending almost straight up -iluminating the tunnel roof ! Also it can be noticed when driving bye traffic-signs hinged over the road in the dark. Suddenly at a fairly close distance the beam lights up the sign that is 60 deg up compared to the road ! IMO the paint-job is rather nice, gives a "near Jaguar" look to the front.... Regards , Carl. |
| Carl |
| would this mod be doable on a mk1? |
| kingsley |
| Considering how poor the candles on the front of the F are, I would have thought it would make little practical difference. In fact if you threw a blanket over the lights you'd probably have to check twice to confirm the lights we on originally. I notice B&G have some Xenon replacement bulbs for sale. Has anybody tried them, and do they make a difference? If so, they might help compensate after painting. |
| David Mills |
| David> I notice B&G have some Xenon replacement bulbs for sale. David> Has anybody tried them, and do they make a difference? David> If so, they might help compensate after painting. Halfords also do Xenon (30% extra brightness) and Lazar Blue Will |
| Will |
| If you go to www.autoexpress.co.uk and product tests there is a comprehensive bulb test (the reccommend Philips) JR |
| John Roach |
| This Xenon thing has cropped up in the past and the general concensus is that unless you can go the whole hog and have replacement headlamps at about 700 GBP (YES THAT IS SEVEN HUNDRED SMACKERS) the so called xanon bulbs were not worth the extra cost and in fact were considered to be a bit of a con. BTW please dont shoot the messenger! Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| www.fosmo.com The Philips Vision Plus are the ones ... Gaz |
| Gaz |
| Sound like the efficiency impact is limited to the peripheral illumination (does make sense Carl). Even though traffic signs might be good to see early I think I can live with that. Kingsley, since my MGF is manufactured Dec'98 (according to Dieters database) I assume it's what you refer to as a MK1. I believe the web pages describing this mod has been on similar aged MGFs. Ted, I did phone a Rover/MG service shop here in Stockholm and I got the information that a new complete headlight for the MGF was about 1500SEK (app.£100) each. Is it a special Xenon version of the headlight to host the Xenon light for pricey £700? Unfortunately you could not buy the piece of plastic in the headlight subject for painting alone but had to go for the entire headlight. I have no personal experience of Xenon light more than the Mercedes and BMW's you meet a dark November evening. Didn't think of the Xenon-side of this equation. However it does sound kind'a neat to have the headlight interior painted in the same Tahiti blue as the MGF and use the bluish Xenon bulb. A lot of blue there… |
| Ronny Peschel |
| Sorry - I did not make it clear! Yes the GBP 700 is for the xenon headlights NOT the standard MGF lights. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Phew - thank's for clearing that one up, Ted. I was just about to get on the phone to order some headlight protectors! |
| David Bainbridge |
| Ted, what exactly is the difference between a replacement Xenon bulb, and the complete Xenon fixture? I would have thought the latter was the former with plastic reflector and glass. Am i missing something? |
| David Mills |
| I am not qualified to explain the difference BUT I think that what a xenon bulb does is give you a blue tinged light! A full xenon gas discharge system (I think it is called) gives 'searchlight' quality but requires special lights and they cost GBP 600 plus as an optional extra on cars such as BMW or Mercedes. You must not confuse a bulb with a light. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| I painted my headlight reflectors and didn't *notice* a difference (apart that it looks cool ;)) I'm not saying that there isn't any difference in light, there should be one, but it's IMO a little one. Side to side testing would be required to have the last word. Go for it ! and BTW, if you find a solution to get rid of the mist inside the headlight glass, just tell me ;) Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| I looked into changing the lights on my front. I event tested their non-brightness by driving around with full beem on un-noticed. Anyway I went to Halfords and I tried some other bulbs, forget the name, make etc but can find out. They had a blue tinge to them and made loads of difference!!! £20 each bulb. However it is illegal to go up in brightness from the standard buld ... not that it would stop me |
| Ashley |
| Having the complete Xenon fixture sounds rather expensive. I'm sure. The blue light from a Xenon bulb will have to do until the full kit has reached desent levels. Browsning through the B&G catalogue I found the "Throphy headlamp" wich looks wery much like what I'm trying to achieve. The price for a pair is £220. Still, paintnig it yourself saves you a lot of £££. The catalogue did not offer different versions for MKI, MK2 and model 2000, hence I draw the conclusion the headlamp is the same for all models and this mod should be doable on any MGF. I haven't experience any mist in the light (...yet). But if I do and I find a solution for it, I'll let you know Fabrice. Strenthened by all your input, I did order the original colour to my car today. I'm getting redy now... |
| Ronny Peschel |
| makes no reasonable difference or decrease of effincency, cause the painted reflectors are as well released to the Trophy specs in EU ;) Our both Andy's have related websides http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ap1000000/howtohea.htm http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~grid-itc/mgf/lightmod.html >I painted my headlight reflectors and didn't *notice* a difference (apart that it looks cool ;)) Hmmmmm, how will the black painted reflectors look at my PTS coloured MGF ? :) http://www.mgf-net.de/Treffen/dk_DCP_6828.jpg Dieter |
| Dieter Koennecke |
| It will look cool, Dieter ! http://www.ultimatemg.com/mgf/events12/gallerypic10.jpg I used a can of "satin black". It's between matt and gloss. |
| Fabrice |
| I thought it was only illegalto go up in wattage from a standard bulb - those Xenons are still 55w (am I right?) I believe. And it isn't necessary to get the blue-tinged ones, unless you've not learnt the correct way to wear a baseball cap yet. E |
| Ed Clarke |
| after dismantling the headlights, is it possible to reinstall it again without the inner headlight glass? |
| Jason |
| This mod does make more sence on a dark colored car, obviously. The effect is more eobvious. Still, thanks for the links Dieter. Fabrice, I must say, your MGF on http://www.ultimatemg.com/mgf/events12/gallerypic10.jpg does look nice with the dark reflector. That's it, I made up my mind, this will be a mod for the dark winter evenings while the "blue babe" is asleep... /Ronny |
| Ronny Peschel |
| Ed, may be a misunderstanding ? Of course there are 'xenon light' bulbs with 55 Watt availiable. Me played with them some years ago. (Threads in the archives). They are app 30 percent more efficient than the standard, but each improvement has it's costs. Found them very slight brighter,... but they last IMO only half of the life related to the standard. Cost three times mor and last only half... Dohhh ! Not me any more. Also 100 Watt bulbs are availiable, but allowed on race tracks cars only. The 'true' Xenon which Ted mentioned is app 700 GBP. They make the 'blue devil' light as at a Bimmer or Mercedes and such other §§§-cars. The conversion should be easy. The bulbs are very small and connected to a kind of black box controller. Jason, as far as I understood your question. No, impossible for the standard bulb design. Related to the 'true' Xenons, I'm not sure. Ronny, suppose I'll do the black 'satin' !! :) CU Dieter |
| Dieter Koennecke |
Hi all, As Ted said - the real Xenon´s are not ordinary filament bulbs but gas discharge units working at several thousand volts! Hence there is no option to make any DIY bulb change on cars with this system fitted. Bosch makes a add-on system but unfortunatly this only for flood-light and are separate units to be attached at the front grille etc... Has no one else seen the rather curious ilumination effect caused by the original non-painted "F"´s light cluster ? It is clearly seen if parking in a dark garage. Regards , Carl. |
| Carl |
| Dieter - yes, you're right: true gas-discharge lamps are a different matter entirely, as with all types of high-intensity lighting. The approach with the more standard Xenon's though is simply filling the envelope of the bulb with a different gas, which allows the filament to burn more brightly. I found my original headlights to be too dim, and have fitted these and am really pleased with them; other drivers are not (judging by the amount of times I've been flashed since fitting them) and as far as I can make out this is largely due to the flare from the chrome surround of the light units... the focus of the 'primary' area of the beam is fine. It used to be possible (still is?) to buy vacuum-filled household bulbs... the quality of light from tem is extraordinarily differrent to your bog-standard Osram's. E |
| Ed Clarke |
| Carl, you are of course right, but... *g*... it's another modification, though ;) Back to the xenon gas discharge xenon-kit. Found the source I read a couple of weeks ago: ----snip----------- Moeglich ist das mit einer speziellen Gasentladungslampe und den passenden Steuergeraeten die mit bis zu 20.000 Volt das Xenon Gas entzuenden. Die Gasentladungslampe wird einfach in den vorhandenen Lampensockel eingesetzt und die Steuergeraete werden in den normalen Stromkreis eingebunden. Der Preis des Formel K Xenon-Nachruestkit betraegt 1599,-DM. ....Alle Info´s zum neuen Xenon-Kit gibt es bei Formel K unter: Telefon +49(0)2843-9090-0 oder www.formelk.de ----- I searched that site, but found nothing. If I find time than I'll call them in next week. Philips is IMO the right address for more information http://www.eur.lighting.philips.com/automotive/html/input_products_xenon_benef.html Dieter |
| Dieter Koennecke |
| Hi all, Bought myself the blue colored verison of the ordinary 55W halogen bulb to fit the standard light. On the box it says "Xenon-Look". These will do to start with. Yes, as you indicate Dieter, they are more expensive and has shorter life, but what the heck, they are blue... I will keep an ordinary set as a spare. To replace the entire housing for the MG Xenon light (£600-£700) does seem a little expensive. However the "Formel-K Xenon kit" for 1500DEM adding on necessary H/W to enable true Xenon lightbulbs to be used in the standard ligh housing does seems like an intersting option. Anyone dare to try it and share the experience? /Ronny PS. I'm happy to see this thread has attracted such intertest. :-) |
| Ronny Peschel |
| Dieter, is the inner headlamp glass needed for installation? I don't mean the bulb. Observing the headlamp housing, the highlight do not have any inner glass compared with the driving lights. Could this inner glass be the cause for the F's poor lighting? BTW, the headlamps inner glass on my f is almost white in colour i.e cannot see the bulb. Is this normal? |
| Jason |
| Jason, had a close look at my light yesterday. The glass in front of the dipped headlight/driving light is there for focus purposes. You don't want to make your fellow driver go blind meeting him/her on a dark road. The headlight on the other hand can spread it's light all over the place hence no need for focusing glass/lens. That is off cource assuming the headlight reflector do a decent job in focusing the light in the first place. The glass in front of my dipped headlight was also "milky". Think I will clean it while doing the paint-mod. Otherwise, I'm afraid you and me have to live with the limited light that comes from the MGF. That is unless you don't go for some extra light, but that would mess up the front, wouldn't it? /Ronny |
| Ronny Peschel |
| >>The glass in front of my dipped headlight was also "milky". Think I will clean it while doing the paint-mod.<< Mine was too, and still is after a attempt to clean it during the paint-mod ;o(( + more mist inside (or more visible because of the dark paint ?), athough I compressed (to make them tighter) the clips that holds the headlight glass. |
| Fabrice |
| Fabrice, did you try to put some grease in the black round lids on the backside of the lights? Possibly this is where the moisture comes in. /Ronny |
| Ronny Peschel |
| No, I didn't. I'll try it. If I recall correctly, the painting job left those lids untouched... (you mean the "caps" to change the bulbs, don't you ?) Anyway, I got the impression that there was mist already before I painted the reflectors, but it was less just visible ... |
| Fabrice |
| Hi, coming back on the funny 'true' Xenon add on. I called that german company today and asked whats going around. They did this mod only one time and the parts price was the above mentioned amount. They don't offer this mod cause there is no chance to get an EU release for it. For a try to get it legal are some other mods required: - automatic headlight height control and adjustment - washer jets to clean the headlight So far this from them. So just forget it for legal use..... Related to the Trophy headlights at an older MGF our chap Manfred asked at MGR Germany for a written release. Non permitted, cause they asked in the approval process for the EC release of the Trophy only for this setup. Not for upgrading the old cars. If of interest, the type approval number for the headlights at the Trophy is e11*93/81*0017 Edition 09. And only with original black reflectors as written to the Trophy System release, No e11*76/756*97/28*0162*05 That is really important, is it ? .... ;) ROFL Dieter |
| Dieter Koennecke |
| Dieter, you're amazing. Where do you find all your information? Your sources didn't say anything negative on painting the reflector of an old F, did they? Also, I assume the Throphy headlight would - strictly hypothetical - fit an MkI? /Ronny |
| Ronny Peschel |
| >you're amazing. hope so :))) They will fit but got not tested and approved for older cars. Thats all. The source was any office nobody. He can't state what's not written. Anyway, if I had them painted I would not ask any offcials for rules and permission, but carry a MGF Trophy brochure in the glove box. http://www.mgf-net.de/trophy/Auto_2.jpg This picture from a swiss trophy shows best details. http://www.mgf-net.de/trophy/T_trophy3.jpg |
| Dieter Koennecke |
| Just for the record: I use 100W bulbs for the full beam, and have no problems with melting plastic or blowing fuses. Cheers, Erik (http://mgf.rulezz.com with a section about painted reflectors) |
| Erik |
This thread was discussed between 27/09/2001 and 08/10/2001
MG MGF Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.