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MG MGF Technical - Power Steering malfunction
X reg MGF
My car has just failed its MOT on Power steering malfunction - its pulling to the left. I have just taken it into a garage where I've been quoted £775 + VAT for the power steering bracket + 4 hours labour - could anyone let me know if this is standard. I think the car is probably only worth about £1,500 so am wondering if it is worth having this work done - although I do love the car and have had her since new.
|S C Edwards|
|I think this is fixable and seem to remember reading about in too many years ago - hope someone (like Dieter?) will be along shortly to answer this.|
I also think you can remove the power steering fuse to disable the power steering to get it though the MoT....
|This might help....|
|I remember Sterling at Eastborne advertising that they would do the realignment of the torque sensors for about £120. At which point some of the more ignorant kids on .org shrilled away about exploitation but it is a fair price for a two hour job with a professional warranty from MGF experienced mechanics. There may well be others more local to you - this a common, easily diagnosed and very fixable problem.|
Do not give up on the car just for that!
it's at Rob's
|It is such a well known problem that you will definitely be able to find somewhere to fix it even closer to home than Eastborne. I only mentioned Sterling because of their first class reputation and I know that they offered the service. That was £120 all up, total, with the guarantee of workmanship.|
Don't even consider selling, unless you want to sell it to me for stupid money! Having two already my wife 'might' then 'suggest' that I got rid of one immediately. Three would seem to be too many!
|I recollect that Sterling offered an exchange column however the Page does not come up in My Favourites.|
You can always ask.
|Thanks Dieter. Good to see you are still lurking. This was such a lively place when it was the only MGF site. Now there are hundreds and they all seem like the Mary Celeste!|
Hope you and Rosie are well.
PS Do you remember the great thread about the euro? I remember calling it the Great European Economic Suicide Pact.... No one around to say "told you so" to, particularly Dirk and his slightly saner brother!
""Do you remember the great thread about the euro? I remember calling it the Great European Economic Suicide Pact.... No one around to say "told you so" to, particularly Dirk and his slightly saner brother! ""
This should be a laugh now let me get this right??
USA economy on it's knees!! is it in the Euro? No!
British economy on it's knees!! is it in the Euro? no!
World economy on it's knees!!!
Greece soldiering on in the Euro yep! what would be happening if Greece were outside the Euro? they would be BANKRUPT!!!
Now please tell us all what is the problem you have with the Euro?
The only problem I can see is Greece should not have been allowed in!! and why is there no Euro bond the same as the USA has one bond for all states. Not rocket science is it!!
|Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo|
World economy on its knees? What, like China, most of the Far East, India, Brazil, Australia, Russia? A fair chunk of the World is doing very nicely and the global economy is still predicted to grow by 4% next year.
The US economy is on its knees because it has borrowed huge amounts of money and the time has come to pay it back. Unfortunately they have no government worthy of the name and the politicians are happy to watch the country drift down sh1t creek in the hope it will give them electoral advantage.
Our own problems are pretty well rehearsed with Labour’s love of spending our money. However living next to an economic basket case does not help much.
I fear you misunderstand the depth of the euro problem. Greece IS bankrupt in that its debts vastly exceed its ability to repay them. The only answer the EU elite can think off is to lend them more money! Now what they should do is to default on their commitments (and they have form in this area) and devalue their currency. Now they cannot devalue because they are shackled to the euro. If they default then the German and French banks will take a huge hit and some will need huge government rescues to survive. So out of a sense of self preservation, the EU fights to keep Greece in the euro and solvent. The problem is that the Greek economy is shrinking due to all the austerity and hence its situation is only deteriorating further.
The really bad news is that Greece is not the only problem economy in the euro. You have Southern Ireland, Portugal and the really scary ones – Spain and Italy. A Greek contagion could crash the world economy and lead us into a 1930s depression.
A euro bond is just a euphemism for German lending more to the profligate Garlic belt - only delays the problem and cannot see our German friends wearing it.
This was all predicted by the anti-euro campaigners and all proving to be true.
We live in very interesting times.
|So in reality no problems caused by the Euro, however the problems have been caused by governments of ALL persuations borrowing too much! (what does that have to do with the Euro?) Nothing!!|
I notice the countries you refer to that are not doing too badly (some not quite as well as you suggest with hyper inflation a major issue) are those whose workforce are getting paid ZILTCH! and there we have your solution.
Don't borrow and pay everyone nothing. Yep I love your world Patrick please you have invited us to participate.... LOL
|Bob Turbo Midget England|
|LOL .... :) |
... the EURO question from back in 1999. I remember. Got my coat quickly after having seen what discussion happened.
Of course I'm still lurking around. "Some health troubles" though in the last two years.
But I heard of ..... bad weeds grow tall ;)
PS. tourism in Europe increased by 6.5 % in the last 10 years ;)
|We will do our bit for the Euro Tourism next week when we join the Monaco MG Rally !!|
Sorry to hear you have been unwell and hope is all well now. You should have come over here to see Rob and Yimmy! I understand Rob is even better at fixing people than MGFs!
Hope the trip does well to Monte Carlo!
Saying the euro is OK it is government failure is silly, the euro is a political construct. If all the countries in the currency were spendthrift credit junkies then there would be no problem, it would just be a larger version if the old Drachma, Peseta or Lira. The trouble is the Northern countries are not and this is what is causing the tension tearing the euro apart. It was the biggest criticism of the anti campaign at the start and it has proved to be the case. The alternate argument that a new currency would magically change the Spanish, Italians and Greeks into economic Germans seemed ridiculous at the time and so it has proved.
None of the counties I listed has hyper inflation and certainly the ones in he Far East are doing brilliantly. Chinese workers may not be paid a lot but what they can buy with it is stunning and their standard of living is rising very rapidly. Go and have a look, you will be amazed! I have and am!
|Well that is wonderful Patrick you have me convinced can you now please convince me that selling mortgages to people who could not afford to pay them back simply to earn commission and banks buying up all this subprime business did not contribute to the current financial crisis and I will be a total convert to your wonderful world vision!! LOL|
|Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo|
|power steering malfunction? Mmmm - however since you started it -|
It was nothing to do with commission for salesmen, that was Bill Clinton's great contribution - exactly that - upon election he forced all American banks to lend to dumbass trailertrash regardless; or be prosecuted under race relations legislation. It is a matter or record, was detailed Democrat policy, and in 1990s America that was more than strong persuasion for the Banks who cooperated with reluctance.....but invented the subprime 'vehicles' to pass on their misfortune. It made the good times go with a real swing (remember 'its the economy, stupid') but is just deliberately concealed borrowing for electoral advantage in one generation for another to pay back( e.g. PFI over here). Utterly temporary and deliberately destabilising - which is the only way that left wing economics 'works'.
Barak Obama was recently presented with the option of merely upping the already massive borrowing from Chinese sovereign wealth and but for the tea-party folk he would have saddled the young of America with an unfeasibly large debt to pay off one day. Nobody could have paid it - like the Greeks they would just go on borrowing more and more money without any chance of ever paying it back, leaving that bourgoise rigmarole to some other poor generation....until financial meltdown and revolution, whether deliberately sought or ignorantly blundered into.
|bob, you're being an ar*e. patrick's explanation is spot on. in the old days greece would have devauled it's currency and everyone in the world'd be heading there for cheap holidays. they can't do that now, on top of that interest rates are going up in the eurozone.|
|Best desist before Patrick creates Flame wars LOL|
However must just state to Leigh
If you believe that sound fiscal policies are to spend far too much on social policies and then devalue your currency to try and get out of the problems all I can say is
I am pleased I am an idiot.
I personally believe countries should only spend what they can afford the same as we ought to and then the world would be in a far better state
So I will remain dim whilst you and Patrick enjoy overspending and currency devaluation.!!!
Leigh the UK is not in the Euro and our country is in a poor state when do you think we will devalue the £?
Sorry for being so dim and not understanding finance!!
|Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo|
|Heck it is just like the old days when Bob would be arguing with anyone who did not carry a hammer & sickle -- nice to see you haven't lost your passion Bob.|
|I'm afraid the problem is the Euro.|
Greece was never in a position to join the Euro, but in the headlong dash to allow counties to join up, no one really cared. It was come on - get on board.
Only the stronger counties with some control really should have belonged in the Euro - but then it would have been a small exclusive club, so they dropped any fiscal rules to allow those others in.
It was a compromise, and so once you abandoned any controls, this was always going to happen.
I am shocked that you should think I am keen on borrowing. Personally, I paid off my only debt 10 years ago and that was a mortgage on our house. Since I got married over 40 years ago I have only ever borrowed money once and that was to install central heating in our very cold new home in 1974.
It is borrowing that is destroying Europe. The garlic belt was allowed into the euro and suddenly they could borrow money at the same rate as the Germans! Greece, Italy, Spain and Ireland (honorary member of the Garlic belt!) went on a credit binge. The German and French Banks thought that all debts were the same (it’s euros init!) so happily lent the money. Now the borrowers cannot afford to repay and the lenders cannot afford to accept the debts need to be written off as that will collapse their banking systems and hence economies. What a pig’s breakfast and all caused by the euro!
I think I have the answer to Greece! We should tell Turkey they can join the EU so long as they take responsibility for Greece again. It was a nice idea giving the Greeks independence but they clearly are not up to the task. This move might also encourage Italy and Spain to try harder.
Please also be assured I feel the effect of currency devaluation! This year we are having to go to Burma for our hols as this is the only warm (and safe) place I could find where the economy was more crap than ours or Europe’s (or indeed the US but in that case it is a closer run thing….)
Charless, A bit rich blaming it all on Bill, George Bush Junior had 8 years stocking the credit fire despite the ever more deafening warnings of doom around the corner and in truth, the Americans have been living beyond their means for at least the last 50 years. American government have been dysfunctional for too long and perhaps also corrupt. That was great when all was well as it meant the government could not interfere too much. Bummer however when something needs to be done.
I hope I have not upset any Irish readers by suggesting they are in the Garlic belt but it seemed more polite than calling them PIIGS, also I am certain if the UK had joined the euro we to would have also
been fully paid up members as well.
However we should look on the bright side. In ten years time, if all goes well, the western economies might be out of the crap!
Great post mate and of course you have identified the problem because you are not stupid!!
Anyone with half a brain knows the problem is that everyone has borrowed far too much money and the house of cards are falling. You know that I know that, even Ted knows that :) shame Charless and Leigh do not know it also
Of course I was being mischeivous about tying you into the comments by Leigh although he made it easy by suggesting you were spot on he said
""patrick's explanation is spot on. in the old days greece would have devauled it's currency""
I knew you did not agree with that and anyone with any sense would not agree with it. The problem is of course when you devalue a currency you may become more competitive and so may get growth, however if you half the value of your currency you DOUBLE the DEBT! great!! not!! You have to laugh!
Patrick we have not done Sarah any favours and I am as much to blame as you so please Sarah I am very sorry but most of us know why the world is in a mess. We have ALL lived beyond our means however Patrick knows this too but he is desperately trying to blame it on the Euro which it is certainly not! Using Patricks latest direction of money being cheap to borrow we ought to be blaming banks for letting interest rates get too low. Come on Patrick you are better than that!
|Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo|
|Bob, you're still an ar*e.|
>however if you half the value of your currency you DOUBLE the DEBT! great!! not!! You have to laugh!
yes and that's why china's delighted about QE3. (sorry bit of sarcasm there)
|Wow, I haven't seen a decent flame war on here for years! ROFLMAO|
Typical it should be over the euro. Again. ;o)
|Reading the original topic concern, the bias in the steering, and the great explanation replies, i think its something that would not worry me now.. |
so thanks for this Dieter:
Posted 21 September 2011 at 23:53:41 UK time
Dieter, Hersfeld, Hesse, www.mgfcar.de
it's at Rob's
which leads me to think a quick solution would be an external potentiometer tied to ground.. with the biased steering side output, from the sensor. as an input? i.e lets say its the green wire that doesnt read zero with both wheels straight ahead.. then put such a pot in that line.. green wire input, other side ground and the centre variable output as the feed to the ecu... and set it to zero.. on the output.. i understand that might mean the unbiased side will be more active.. than the unbiased side, ie the voltage will rise quicker, but such a solution would not involve deep digging into the sensor.. and provide one with a quick easy solution, since such potentiometers are cheap to buy from maplin.. easily set in a fixed position.. so cheap they can be thrown away any time.. etc... ?
perhaps there is some reason that wouldnt work.. so hence my post.
|Greece and Italy certainly did not meet the entry requirements (max borrowing as a %age of GDP which I think from memory was set at 3% laid down at the time when they joined the Euro). We all know now that the Greeks lied. It was a political fix that has gone horribly wrong and of course all the politicos at the time have now ridden into the sunset...|
I am just glad the £ amd Swiss Franc are out and will remain so if I had anything to do with it, if only because one is behind the 'sea' and the other behind the 'mountains', both somewhat insular countries in attitude.
Of course both countries are effected by what is going on but one does wonder whether the UK and Switzerland would have been better off strengthening the EFTA and Commonwealth ties (remember cheap lamb from New Zealand?). At least we had in these two bodies similiar values and beliefs between member countries....
|>>which leads me to think a quick solution would be an external potentiometer tied to ground.. with the biased steering side output, from the sensor. as an input? i.e lets say its the green wire that doesnt read zero with both wheels straight ahead.. then put such a pot in that line.. green wire input, other side ground and the centre variable output as the feed to the ecu... and set it to zero.. on the output.. i understand that might mean the unbiased side will be more active.. than the unbiased side, ie the voltage will rise quicker, but such a solution would not involve deep digging into the sensor.. and provide one with a quick easy solution, since such potentiometers are cheap to buy from maplin.. easily set in a fixed position.. so cheap they can be thrown away any time.. etc... ?|
perhaps there is some reason that wouldnt work.. so hence my post.<<
That's an interesting suggestion, and it would be interesting to see how that would work. I presume that the ECU is looking to balance out two resistance signals - or at least measured voltage. What would be interesting to know how it would handle two voltage signals that would be a little lower than expected - which is what you would see if you added a potentiometer to one of the steering position sensors?
It actually all that hard to 'service' the steering column - the nuisance value of picking out the old glue, realigning the sensors and then gluing everything again... probably not so much more than wiring in a new resistor?
|my reasoning was that i would not have to interefere with what was.. and then reseal it.. i would have the means to alter the bias, at any time.. ( given that i knew the value of the ideal potentiometer) to achieve the same affect.. i.e negate the biased steering.|
what such a pot would do.. is add resistance.. and therefore reduce the current, and as consequence the voltage.. thats what resistors do.
the difference is realised as heat..
But here we are talking milliamps.. and millivolts.. so the heat radiant in the resistor is small.. easily taken care of by the potentiometer.
In effect what one is doing, without altering the existing resistor.. is adding some, and changing the measuring point..
A + B measured at C still equals D if D was the original measuring point and C is the new.
Think of it like a tape measure.
2.5 inch plus 2, ( 4.5 ) measured at C ( 2) if D was the original measuring point (2) and C is the new. (2)
one has increased the distance from 2.5 to 4.5, but can still give the same reading (2)
ie.. 2.5 has become 3 ( the bias ) so 3 + plus 2 now gives 5 but because one can reduce 2 ( its tied to ground ( earth or 0 ) it can be less than 3.. so it can still be 2.5...
but the difference between the biased side and the unbiased side, means that the resistance is less in the unbiased side - ie its never more than 2.5, therefore the current can be greater.. faster..
or am i missing something.. :)
|nice to see it got back on topic!|
|Hi guys just over here from the midget forum - a neighbour has asked me if i can fix this problem on her car!|
stripped down as per the 'ultimatemg' instructions - on measuring it seems that one side the output is working and the other is permenantly zero seems the torque sensor is broken internally - anyone know if you can buy this part anywhere?
|Mick - still wiring!!|
|As far as I know a few people have tried to locate a source for a new sensor but without success. Used columns from late TFs are readily available at reasonable prices, perhaps that's the path of least resistance...|
|Mick - still wiring!!|
This thread was discussed between 20/09/2011 and 12/04/2012
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