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MG MGF Technical - Quite a large coolant leak

Morning folks,

I just need a few opinions on my coolant before I look at it tonight. (Although feel free to comment after todat incase I don't sort it over the weekend!)

Last Friday my '97 'F (1.8i) dropped some coolant on the drive, apparently as I left for work. I noticed this on the evening and inspected the car:

Coolant resevoir was nigh on empty (- oops) and the underside of the gearbox, torsion bar, etc was covered in coolant (still green).

I wiped it all off, but couldn't see any sign of the cause. I was in a rush and have not had much chance to look at it since.

More coolant appeared on the drive last night and sure enough, half of the fluid from the resevoir had gone.

I topped it up but on starting the car this morning fluid was pi**ing out as the engine idled.

Needless to say I am just cooling off having cycled to work.

I am hoping that when I look at it over the weekend it will be glaringly obvious, but in the meantime does anyone have any pointers as to what might have given up?

There doesn't seem to be any coolant blowing from the cap of the resevoir, and inspection from the top of the engine bay offers no clues as it seems dry. The offside drive shaft from the gearbox is coated in fluid though.


Thanks alot.

Rich.
Richard

Richard,
Could be the inlet manifold gasket (no so bad compared to the dreaded HGF, this will 'only' cost you between £100 / £200). When you look throughout the engine bay from the rear of the car, can't you see anything at the bottom of the engine around the middle (use a torch, it helps to see green fluid) ?

I would recommend that you bring the car to the dealer asap anyway

Jerome
Jérôme

Richard

Could also be a hose or the metal pipes that run under the car to the heater and radiator.

But do check your oil to see if there is any sign of an internal leak as well - i.e. a head gasket gone.

Ted
Ted Newman

>>I would recommend that you bring the car to the dealer asap anyway<<
I agree - and I hope that Jerome is right about the inlet manifold gasket - other possibilities are the head gasket or the water pump. It might be best to get the car trailored to the dealer.

Steve
Steve

could be alot of other things rather than a HGF
As said previously = dont drive the car or run it until you source the problem

Check the inlet manifold gasket / coolant hoses and connection and also water pump seal

Even if it is the HGF - It sounds like no great damage has been done - so hopefully not serious expense

Seems we have had a rash of HGF lately - cold weather could be adding to movement of HGASKET by contraction and expansion????
tony

>>cold weather could be adding to movement of HGASKET by contraction and expansion????

Well, I don't think a drop in temperature of 20°C can have an impact on the gasket behaviour if you compare this temperature to the high usual temperature of the engine. But who knows?
Jérôme

Richard

Sorry to say this but my money is on a HGF (IMHO).

Unclip hood & remove engine cover, head gasket faiure to outside world will NOT result in water/oil contamination.

Check head to cylinder block interface at the cambelt end of engine just above alternator. Expect to see a jet of water with the engine running.

Hope you find it isn't this though!

Cheers

Russ (HGF=1, DIY HGF repair=1)
Russ Fitz

Thanks for all your comments.

Russ,

you mention DIY HGF repair - sounds tempting.
I'm quite handy when it comes to DIY MG mechanics.
Do you (or anyone else) have any tips?

Cheers,

Rich.
Richard

Richard

Well it isn't quick the first time due to learning curve. Have a search in the archive I've started two or was it three threads which cover just about everything I could be able to repeat here. The threads will be within the last six months.

Top tips for DIY head gasket replacement:

Get workshop manual from Rover (not cheap!)

Get Camlocking tool from draper direct (very cheap) draper web site mentioned in one of those threads.

If you don't lock down the cylinder liners with the head off DO NOT turn over the engine even by hand!

Use New head gasket with steel locating dowels.

Replace intake gasket (I think the new one was green).

Replace Cambelt (you have to take old one off anyway).

I'm pretty sure I listed every thing I changed in those past threads.

Mine is a 97 1.8MPI and the HG went in the 50 thousands some things covered in my previous threads may not apply to VVC models.

I'm not going to be checking in here for a week so hope it goes well.

Hope you have a garage its getting cold out there now!

Cheers

Russ
Russ Fitz

RUSS

HOW long dd the HGF take you to repair ?

And once learnt - how long do you think a garage with all tools could do it in ??
tony

You might not want to hear this but I have just got my car back from the dealer after a HGF repair.

I'm afraid the sign was a big coolant leak. Before it went to the dealer I traced the leak to side of the block, it was coming from behind the alternater bracket.

AL
Al

Tony

Replacing an MGF head gasket should take a couple of working days for a fairly skilled amateur mechanic (something between 10-20 hours). Having done the job twice I think I can do it in less than 8 hours if the head doesn't need skimming.

No special tools are really required. The camshafts have a portion that fit a 24mm spanner, thus no purpose made holding tool is essential.

Just remember to turn the crankshaft to the 90deg position and don't touch it until the head is torqued down properly (according to manufacturer's procedure)and the timing belt is fitted.

What I'd really like to try is fitting a spring steel head gasket instead of the "rubber band seal" OE item.
At £150 it's not cheap, but if eliminates any future HGF it sure will be worth it.
Raceline Performance supply them: http://www.raceline.co.uk/lotuseliseframes.htm

Next time...

Jon Fredheim

Jon,

is that the part you mean ?http://www.raceline.co.uk/supersteel.htm
*g*,
can't see the K-Engine. Are you sure they supply this part for the Elise/MGF ?

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

It's really not looking good having read all of your comments.

I'm saving looking at the car until tomorrow.

I have looked for Russ's threads on DIY HG repair but can not find anything. Does anyone know where they are?

I will probably try the warranty route if it is an HGF as I still have 3 months to run. Only problem is that I have fitted a K&N and a KH splitter - potential warranty invalidators....?

Rich.
Richard

The splitter wont affect anything(body mod)

However - i would put the standard filter back on BEFORE the garage sees it - may save you £500 and its something the warranty co could argue over if they felt difficult !!!!

Anyway - its a 20 minute job to refit and you may get a better idea of whats wrong by getting the engine lid off!

If you have chucked it away I have mine in the garage you can borrow! (just removed last weekend)
tony

The threads related to Russ repair will be in the archives. Link is on top left here, if you are a registered member.

Have got the instructions from Roger Parker on this site. May it helps as well.
http://www.lame-delegation.de/mgf-net.de/hgf/change.htm

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Sounds just the same as when my car got HGF about 2 weeks ago. As the man said, look for spraying liquid from behind the alternator, but on my car the system had to be pressurised to see it.
Personally, I would not do DIY, although I also have an MGB and do a lot of work on that. The last you want is another HGF......Good luck anyway.
T Green

Dieter

You will find the K-engine gasket on Raceline's Lotus Elise page:
http://www.raceline.co.uk/lotuseliseframes.htm
At the bottom, click on "Engine components" and then "cylinder head"

They claim this is the solution to the MGF's head gasket problems. Too good to be true?
Jon

Dieter

I think this HG is the spring steel one isnt it?

I was talking to a Rover mechanic who said that on assembly of the head - the gasket sealant is very easy to disturb - so adding to the chances of failure

They have repaired a few and have had a second failure - its always failed second time because the sealant had been knocked or disturbed on assembly - because the car is so fiddly to work on!

In some respects - that tells me to DIY it as you will take more car on your own car!

Now in saying that this wouldnt have been the case upon first assembly as i am sure rover wouldnt have assembled the head"in car" (unless you know different!

i think this gasket is the way to go - but time will tell!

My thoughts are that in such a small cooling system you need a more robust material in the HG as a sealant anyway -bikes dont use sloppy sealants - usually spring steel - i wonder what sorts of pressures this can withstand - i bet it is the weak area in the system - well its obviously weak!

if the bottle pressure cap fails and doesnt release pressure the HG would be the next "break point"


Does anyone know what the system pressure is ?
And what the bottle cap pressure is rated at - i wonder if we should be looking at a bottle cap with a reduced pressure rating (ie blow earlier)
tony

Thanks to everyone for all their comments.

I spent a bit of time on the car at the weekend. I got it up on ramps, checked out the underneath and sure enough it's HGF. Water all down the side of the block. It doesn't look to bad yet though.

I also put the original fliter back on (Thanks for the offer though Tony!)

I decided to take the splitter off too - just incase thay start to think that I have a habit of 'messing' with my car.

I'm just about to call the local garage so wish me luck...

Cheers,

Rich.

BTW, my car is a '97 1.8i with 19,600 miles on the clock. I NEVER drive it hard before it is well up to temp. Does anyone have any other tips about how to preserve the life of the next HG??
Richard

Tony
Does the spring steel gasket also have a rubber sealing strip bonded to it? Then it wont offer much in the way of improvement,IMO. Anybody having actually seen one? Or even better - taken a picture of it?

Richard, I believe your HG has given in due to its age. The adhesion between the sealing strip and the SS base has just given up after all these years. When you get it apart you'll see what I mean.
Jon

Richard, the latest type of Rover gasket comes complete with new steel locating dowels. These new parts seems to have fixed the problems - I haven't heard of a repeated HGF with the new gasket which came out around June this year.
David

Jon,

I suppose there is a bit confusion from Tonys message.
He reffered to your link :)
Looks really like 'without' rubber.
Anyway, if I had the chance I would try it... but I woun't have ever any chance to try it ;)

David,
to early to lean back. Let's wait until this cars get to the 'anones' for the first coolant change or any none educated body workshop. (Due bleeding)
Four years now since January 2001 with the O.A.T coolant type :)

HOS in February 2004 ?

Cheers
Dieter
PS. always in doubts :)
Dieter Koennecke

Richard,

Where in Warks are you?

Rog
Roger Parker

ooppps - sorry Jon - though that was Dieters link :)

I dont think it has any sealant - uses the spring steel to seal which is common sense as this will take up any movement - hopefully for life

tony

David, it is a little bit too early to draw any conclusions regarding the life of the new gasket kit, isn't it? After all, most of the old ones lasted several years...
Jon

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2001 and 20/11/2001

MG MGF Technical index

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