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MG MGF Technical - Racing-cup Throttle body......Rob?

Hi Guys,
This question should really be aimed at Rob.....cheers Rob if you can help.
With ref to the recent thread on throttle bodys.
I bought a 52mm alloy TB for my MGF earlier this year together with a "racing cup" carbon airfilter( looks like the ITG filter) Not sure if its the same one though?At great expense 500 euros for the TB it is descibed as a "racing cup throttle body" I expierenced significant power gains with the airbox.It appears longer than the 52mm TB that I have looked at on MS site..thoughts Rob?

Is this TB the same as the Trophy 52 mm ?
I now have this fitted to my S2 elise the but have yet to really test it as I�m still running it in!

Does anyone know anything about the "racing cup" TB and Carbon airbox,how can I compare them with products in the UK.I bought them from Moto-concept here in Germany.

Thanks Stu
STUART

Hi Stuart,

I'm a little confused - are we talking about the MGR (Dellorto) 52mm TB or some other, after-market item? I know that some German tuning houses are offering GM throttle bodies for use on Elises (similar to the one that Dieter et al have ingeniously adapted for their cars).

Interesting to hear about the carbon airbox that you are using. Any pix?

FWIW, the MGF Cup cars used multiple throttle bodies as you know Stuart, on early KV6 inlet manifolds.
Rob Bell

Not sure Rob,the TB has a metal arm supporting the throttle cable unlike the standard alloy elise 48mmTB

It looks similar to the TB I saw on dieters MGF at the 2001 Treffen.Just curious really as 500 euros seem a lot for a TB compared to the 130 quid or so for the Trophy one.I am very impressed with it though it looks very well engineered.

you can see my airbox and TB on their website.

www.moto-concept.de

Cheers Stu
STUART

Hi Stuart

I also fitted the carbon airbox and the TB on my MGF VVC. The TB is from MG and different to the one used by MGR. The airbox originally is from BMC, a Formula 1 supplier. You find information and how it works on

www.bmcairfilter.com

It is the CDA airbox.

I have also experienced good torque improvement which has improved further after fitting a ultra-light flywheel purchased through PTP.

www.ptp-ltd.co.uk

cheers Oliver
Oliver G

If your TB is the one that is just* pictured in the shots of the airbox Stu, then it is the same GM TB that Dieter has used on his car.

It's throttle diameter is larger again than the Trophy TB at 55mm diameter.

Is it better than a 52mm TB? Depends on what other mods are on your engine (similar arguments as the "Trophy Throttle body shock" thread).

More pix of Dieter's TB, see http://www.mgfcar.de/throttle/index.htm As you can see, it takes quite a lot of work to get the thing working properly in conjunction with the K-series! LOL
Rob Bell

Thanks Rob for your feed back,figured my TB was more than 52 mm,defenatly felt an improvement on my F.Cant comment on my Elise though as I had it fitted before I took delivery. Hope to see you next year,maybe at the ring....:o)))

Oliver,where in Frankfurt do you live?Maybe join me and a few other mates from Frankfurt at the ring next year? Checked the BMC website,exactly what I was looking for,cheers.
Flywheel is next on my list of mods......oh dear darkside lurks on the Lotus side too,didn�t think I would want to change to much on my Lotus,Janspeed exhaust next for sure as I miss the sound of my SP exhaust on my MGF:o(

Cheers Stu
Black Elise S2,Black wheels,Red leather,Touring pack,Carbon air box,55mm TB.......
STUART

@ Stuart, Oliver is north of Ffm. direction Giessen.
Better take contact by email. He's not often online.

>it takes quite a lot of work to get the thing working properly

*g*, no ;) only Scarlet took ... *g*
Site is so big only due to the huge amount of different F-ers who sent pix from their works. Most funny is IMO the one from Don with CNC-Lathe + Laser-cut control-segment.
:o) ... engineers fun !!
Anyway, some more or less easy sheet metal works pieces of rubber hose and a DIY seal between throttle body and plenum do the same.

Dieter
Dieter K.

It's a shame that SF wasn't able to complete the conversion - he'd certainly made a lovely job of painting the thing up! :o)And yeah, Don's CNC work is brilliant - loved looking at that example :o))

Stu, yeah, I think that the Darkside is strong with the Lotus crew! Heck, I read the Elise technical BBS: evidence of the darkside is there to see!

Good to hear that your car is being suitably modified :o) Hopefully see ya next year - and bags a ride at the Nurburgring!
Rob Bell

Dieter,

If they sell these things for 500 euro in Germany you must begin selling them yourself. You will be rich soon. How much did it cost you tomake it? 30 euro?

Spyros
Spyros Papageorghiou

About 30 to 50 is right for the part from German scrap yards.
Mate, it is so boring to get rich by *working*. LOL !!
Though, I never used my crazy skills and advantages of beeing active on the internet to rip off any Enthusiast.
Gave about 10 bodies away for self costs.

@ Rob, no shame for SF.
The conversion was impossible together with his Airfilter setup. The GM body is about 30mm longer then the Trophy body. 30mm to much for the required space of a boxed airfilter :)

btw, I've got SF red body back from him in the cellar. Anyone for a good price ??

Dieter
Dieter K.

Ho hum, lots of work, lots of swearing, lots of dissapointment (lots of money for a new Trophy TB!) later and i grudgingly had to admit defeat.

I still think the GM TB is a fantastic idea and would have worked if i had had more time, patience and had sourced the correct ancilliery items in the first place. Metalwork is not something i have much skill in and i also do not have access to a workshop with the necessary tools. Still, in retrospect it was fun trying, although if you had asked me whilst i was doing it i wouldn't have been so polite! :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

Stuart are you speaking about this TB ?
http://www.moto-concept.de/pics_item/bild.php?file=item_167.jpg&width=180
Thierry

That's the one I mean Thierry, and is the one I suspect that Stuart has on his car.
Rob Bell

Yep Thierry,thats the one.
Just wanted to say I was impressed with the power gains noticably quicker top end 230kmh ish (on the clock) also better mid-range.As opposed to Robs disapointing findings on the Trophy TB.

As I said yet to comment on my Elise as I havn�t driven it in anger yet, 1400km so far!! 100km more and then we will see.


Cheers Stuart
STUART

:) Then the racing cup box Stuart is refering to should be this one (for those of you who would like to know) : http://www.moto-concept.de/pics_item/bild.php?file=item_230.jpg&width=180
http://www.moto-concept.de/pics_item/bild.php?file=item_229.jpg&width=180
Thierry

I'd like to add that this air filter does costs quite a lot : 370 Euro :
Is it worth it Stuart ? For an elise I guess it is, for an MG F I doubt.
Thierry

Sorry to be spamming the board a bit.

Stuart, think about buying a PBV (+-200 Euro), with your combination, bigger TB, better Airfilter, I would say you'll see a real increase in torque.

I have the pbv with a modest pipercross filter (directly mounted on the TB, will move it), and there already is a real increase (unfortunately I have no real way to measure it), now with your tweaks there should be even a bigger more important increase.

My hint: go for it, and report your experiences either to my email address or to this board :)
Thierry

Thierry,I think the power gains for an MGF are definatly worth it.
500 euros for the TB and 370 euros for the airbox.Does seem a lot,about 600 pounds,I think worth it.
So for a total outlay of 870 euros(i paid 1100 fitted)
I got very noticable power gains on my MGF especially mid-range to top end.

Now that I have transfered these parts to my elise I can only say that without the SP to drown out the sound the induction roar in the elise is fantastic....real race car feel,dont think I will even need a sports exhaust! Will just go for a PTP lightweight flywheel in the spring,then thats me more than a happy chappy!!

Must have at least 130bhp with these mods or there abouts.I recomend this combination whole heartedly.

Cheers Stu

Especially mid-range.Well impressed!
STUART

Thierry,
I had considered the PBV,may take your advise and try this when funds allow, that with the flywheel should be all I will need will let you know the outcome.

Stuart
STUART

Dieter, pitty I no longer have an F as I would have had the TB from you, whatever the colour....:-)
T.E.D.

The pros and cons of the PBV are causing real controversy at the moment guys. There is a school of thought that the PBV will do nothing but increase the available fuel and make the engine run rich (and also cause unburnt fuel to drop past the cylinder rings and contaminate the oil).

Others, such as Carl, would argue that there is a benefit to running a PBV, because in closed mode, fueling is regulated by the lambda. And in open-loop (when the throttle is snapped open), extra fueling may be a good idea, especially if you have other mods on hand that may make the engine run lean under these conditions.

Rog has pointed out that the standard fuel pressure regulator has a tolerance of 2.8 to 3.2 bar. It would therefore be a good idea to use a standard regulator that runs at the top end of the tolerances.

Perhaps the amount of benefit you'll see with a PBV will depend greatly upon the regulated pressure that you get from your existing fuel pressure regulator.

Let's just say that the jury is still out on this rather expensive bolt on goody. IMO the money would be better spent by putting it towards a pair of Piper cams...
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 13/12/2002 and 19/12/2002

MG MGF Technical index

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