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MG MGF Technical - Replacement Engines

Dear All,

A local garage has killed my 42K 1.8 16v engine. I'm hoping to get it replaced under guarentee but in any case would welcome advise as to recommended outlets for rebuild / recon / replacement engines.

Also does anyone know if it's possible to obtain VVC or Trophy units?

Your advise would be well appreciated, many thanks.

Happy motoring, Russ.
Russ Mellor

MGF Centre - http://www.mgfcentre.com
Bob Millar

Cheers Bob,

I've checked out the mgfcentre site and lodged an enquiry with them so thanks for that.

I've also been offered a '99 16v unit that has covered 24K (documentation supposedly avaliable) with a 6 month warranty and free delivery for £800.

Does this sounds ok to you?

Regards, Russ.

PS. A VVC or Trophy unit would be nicer!

Russ Mellor

Russ, The MGF centre is probebly the way forward, but remember that the VVC engines have a diffrent ECU and engine bay wireing loom, so to get a VVC engine in your car is significantly more effort (and cost) than simply pulling the old and pushing the new. Also note that the new 1.8's have plug top coils rather than a distributor cap, and the same applies to them.
If you want more performance then getting the head 'done' by Dave Andrews would probebly be less work/money than trying to chance to a 135PS (newer 1.8) or VVC engine.
Will Munns

> A local garage has killed my 42K 1.8 16v engine

What did they actually do?
Bob Millar

Dear Bob,

As you're kind enough to I'll do my best to summarise:

5yr / 60K service performed by garage inc cambelt and leaking water pump. Vehicle ran ok on collection but no evidence of antifreeze in system and after few weeks emulsion under exp tank filler followed by overheating and HGF. Returned vehicle and negotiated (£600!) price for HG replacement inc new fan switch.
On collection, poor starting & lots of vapour in exhaust within weeks overheating again and rtn to garage under guarentee. On removal of head evidence of water in bores but no apparant damage to HG. Replace gasket = no better, source modified gasket = no better, bores still filling with water.
I've now been informed they think the cylinder liners are moving and a replacement engine is required. These guys are ex MG / Rover main dealers with a reasonable reputation locally. Do they sound liable to you and the moving liners is a new one on me!

Any ideas / comments?

Regards, Russ.
Russ Mellor

Moving liners will not let water into the bores, water will go direct into the oil. Sounds like the heads gone porous due to overheating, or possibly cracked. New head from Race speed should do you right.
Will Munns

Cheers Will,

Thanks for the advice, nothing in life is ever easy!
I'll think I'll stick with the 16v and consider induction, exhausts and maybe heads / cams at a later date. For now I'm just missing driving the thing!

Regards, Russ.

PS. How would I track down Dave Andrews?
Russ Mellor

Oh, and BTW the _ONLY_ way the liners can move is if the engine was rotated without the liner clamps or head in place, so if the garage think the liners have moved then it is definatly their fault, where as a cracked/porus head might not have been. Just a thought before you go and tell them!
Will Munns

> moving liners is a new one on me

I know there is concern about liner height causing gasket failure but havent heard moving liners on here before.

Hard to say whether garage is liable although they'll never admit to it anyway.

Have a huge mistrust of all dealers and will always try to do all work on my car by myself. At least that way if something goes wrong I've only got myself to blame. Plus it helps that my father is a fully qualified mechanic so he's always on hand to keep my right.

The worst thing I've ever seen from a dealer was on my dads C Class Merc. Had it in for a service and they let an apprentice loose on it..........and he filled the brake fluid reservoir with screen wash. Dont know if he noticed it or what but my mother found out when she was driving and suddenly had no brakes.

Dealer refused to admit it was them and as it was a company car my dads company had to fork out £2500 for a complete new braking system!

Interestingly though my father left the company and he was given the car as part of his package when he was leaving. He phoned the dealers last week about something and they informed him that the account had been credited with £2500. Yet they wouldnt say why but its basically them admitting there mistake!
Bob Millar

Dear Will,

I was very careful and pulled over as soon as I noticed the overheating so I would have hoped not to have caused futher damager. We also had the head skimmed prior to HG replacement, I have not checked it for cracks but presume the garage has.

Heads going porous, whats that about?

Cheers, Russ.
Russ Mellor

>>PS. How would I track down Dave Andrews?

http://www.dvapower.com./
DVApower@aol.com
01908 322652
Dave Livingstone

Hi Bob,

I've had the same attitude to dealers for years and have done all my own work for many years, but when I bought my F (Japanese import) it had no history and thought I'd start off on the right foot with a full service, then pick up the maintenance from there. If I could turn back the clock I would!

Cheers, Russ.
Russ Mellor

Metal does weird things if it's allowed to get very hot, cracking invisible to the naked eye is quite possible, but steam from the exaust is not a certain sign that water is getting into the bores (at least directly)
Will Munns

> steam from the exaust is not a certain sign that water is getting into the bores

You should naturally get some steam anyway. After all perfect combustion = Water + C02
Bob Millar

More the case that water getting into the oil boils off and gets sucked into the engine thru the breather vent, thus generating much more vapor than normal combustion.
Will Munns

Water is most definetly getting into the bores, on stripping the head the 2nd time there was virtually a couple of inches sitting on top of no3 piston.

I'm aware that a certain amount of vapour is natural, particularly on starting and in cold weather. But believe me guys this was not a natuaral amount of vapour, no quite HGF vapour but not far from it. This continued even after the car was at full operating temperature.

I felt also the starter motor was going as this locked (i.e. thunk sound on turning the key). This I got over by rocking the vehicle in gear then trying again. But would be explained if the motor was trying to compress 2" of water on top of one of the pistons! The rocking may then have dispersed this. The garage have since checked the motor which is ok.

The other issue with starting was that it only got going on 3 cylinders, the 4th caught after awhile. This would also be explained if one of the cylinders was filled with water, wet plug etc.

Anyhow what do you reckon guys, head only or full engine?

Thanks for your contnued interest.

Regards, Russ.
Russ Mellor

new head, definatly, bumping the car with a cylinder full of water may have knackeded the conrod though 8-(

Definatly _not_ a cylinder liner, unless it's a cracked cylinder liner (not a moving liner)
Will Munns

Jeez

dont do anything!

just go balistic at the dealer!

I presume this was all under warranty ( or near to it!)
I have done loads of work with Volvo Ford and Merc re customer service

just go apesh*t with the dealer and the OEM...the problem will be miraculously fixed ...every young call centre bird at the call centre at MB has a £5grand limit to the repairs she could sanction ...yes £5 grand!!

DO IT!
Neil

Hi Neil, thanks for the thought but I don't think I'm in with much hope here.

My vehicle is a '96 import so is waaay out of warranty, I've also spoken to my Solicitor and decided it would be a Royal pain in the butt to prove the garage was liable and would seriously delay getting back on the road.

The MG Centre will supply a 2001 engine with less than 5K on it for £650+ VAT (I bet MB would be more than that!). The garage will fit it for nothing with their apologies and I may even have the car back for the weekend.

Not an ideal situation, I've shelled out for the HGF and will now cop it for the cost of the engine as well. To their credit the garage has put in hours of work under guarantee trying to fix the problem and will fit the engine for nothing.

I considered a protracted battle over less than a grand was not in my best interest and this is the quickest way I've got of getting my car back.
Russ Mellor

Sorry mate in your case Russ you are F***ed!

but everybody else pay heed...if it goes wrong and you are even close to some sort of guarantee create hell and it will work out for you....well it would at MB anyway so give it a try!

btw i really really fancy a ZT280...that engine wont blow!



Neil

>The MG Centre will supply a 2001 engine with less than 5K on it for £650+ VAT

Sounds good - just run in, and a good price - a new head would be a little cheaper, but you don't know what other damage there is in your engine.

Good luck

Will
Will Munns

> The MG Centre will supply a 2001 engine with less than 5K on it for £650+ VAT


Oooh...wonder if I could fit a 1.8 K Series in my Mini project I've got lined up!
Bob Millar

Nah, you want a k-midget... the engine looks really at home in a MG ;-)
Will Munns


Got my heart set on a Mini!
Bob Millar

Drive a Midget, you'll be won ;-)
Will Munns

If you fit a 2001 engine to an older 1.8i you need to sort out the distributor drive from the camshaft.
Ken Waring

No problem Ken, the MG centre advises fitting the cam with the dizzy drive lugs from the old engine to the new, thanks for the advice.

Everything should now be set up, we hope to receive the new engine tomorrow and the gargage have been briefed on fitting and servicing. Fingers crossed I'll be back on the road by the weekend!

Russ.
Russ Mellor

Hey Bob & Will,

Thank you both for your previous interest and comments, for your info I belive the MG Centre gets complete (or almost complete) cars direct from MG / Rover. So if you had a project in mind I'm sure they could supply most of the tackle you would need to get up and running, to date they've also been very helpful but a bugger to get through to on the phone.

It remains to be seen how good this engine will be, I'll be happy to e-mail you details or will add to this thread once the job is done.

I've decided to keep things standard for now just to get back on the road. Come spring / summer I'm hoping to go for a 52mm aly throttle body, induction kit, exhausts and cat bypass.

Any comments on the above mods?

Cheers guys, Russ.

PS. Bob, I used to be crazy for Minis and had a 1380, 1275GT with the best part of 100bhp at the wheels (3 clutches in 1 year but what the hell!). A "K" series mini would be dynamite, space frame with a GRP front end would seem to be the way to go.
Russ Mellor

I brough a complete rover 400 with a crunched front and a 1.8 engine for £400, I have since been pillaging it for parts - the Midget is almost roadworthy!
Will Munns

I love you to pieces but I think you're all F***ing Mad!
Ozzy

Sorry 1.6, which is the same as the 1.8 but with a diffrent crankshaft,
Will Munns

Russ,

At an Essex Roadster meet last year a chap turned up with a 2.0 Honda VTEC lump in a mini - the only thing we had that could catch it was a Lotus 340R and that struggled, especially as the mini had a habbit of spitting fire out the dual DTM style centre exit exhaust!

Fantastic conversion too, he had to extend the front by 3" to get it in, but the job was so well done i couldn't see it - the only give away was the angle of the bonnet line which was more horizontal.

Tahiti Blue with a painted Union Flag on the roof in Nightfire Red and Old English White - superb :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

> At an Essex Roadster meet last year a chap turned up with a 2.0 Honda VTEC lump in a mini - the

there was a post on the Lotus BBS a couple of months ago about the same thing. Apparently the Elise was having a thrash with a 911 when all of a sudden this Mini roared past them and neither could catch it. The lotus guy eventually ran into it at a service station and got chatting to the guy and he popped the bonnet and showed him the V-Tec.....
Bob Millar

Bob, Scartlet and other petrolheads!

A 2.0 vtec in a Mini would be a wild ride, the 2.0 in the S2000 is an amazing piece of engineering that is really pushing the boundaries, but in a Mini, my God! You'd be a crazy man even to get into the thing, my Mini had 100bhp at the wheels but a vtec could easily double that, scary stuff.

A 1.8 K series in a mini would be a more practical proposition at a fraction of the cost.

It will never look as pretty as an F though...

Has anyone tried a vtec Honda in an F? I read a thread the other day where a VR6 VW F was suggested, but has anyone ever done it?

Russ Mellor

I'm surprised SF didn't mention the 'Ring Taxi, which is a Mini estate with a VTEC in the front. There's an avi file on the net somewhere of it doing a quick lap in the hands of one of the Ringmeisters...
David Smith (Berks)

Not sure why we are discussing Honda powered Minis here but, as we are, you may be interested to see an action shot of one in Australia.
All I know is that it is V-TEC powered, very neatly done and is indecently quick. Go to;
http://www.mgcarclub.net/mgf/gallery/rroy12th/pic009.jpg
Bob.
R Somerville

Yep, the 'ring taxi', is apparently owned by a local and is a VTEC powered Mini estate - i heard a rumour that it was Clubman traveller, you know the one with the square front and the timber side panelling!

The owner knows the 'ring like the back of his hand and deliberately goes out to embarrass supercars. Can you imagine spending thoudands on a Rari and getting your ass kicked by a timber panelled mini! Superb! :-)

Never seen it though, but it is supposed to exist. There is also a beaten up Mk1 Golf with something a bit special under the bonnet, owned and driven by a local. :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

This thread was discussed between 30/11/2003 and 04/12/2003

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.