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MG MGF Technical - Results from the Emerald RR day

FINALLY got round to putting all the power figures obtained from Emerald onto an Excel file - and you can down load it here: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/mg...rald_190205.XLS

I've plotted the power and torque at the flywheel (estimate) - so Ralph, finally you can get a print out of your car's performance!

My car actually underperformed on the day. The reason for this? Naughty naughty, I haven't serviced the K&N airfilter for absolutely ages, and I suspect that it is gummed up! D'oh!

Will arrange another Emerald trip, perhaps later in the year? If anyone is interested, please let me know :o)
Rob Bell

Nope, can't get it to work from here either mate. :-(

SF
Scarlet Fever

Me neither

SF, do you have the feeling that you're being followed :-)
Dave Livingstone

You see what happens when you're in a hurry? D'oh!

The link should read http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/mgfregister/temp/Emerald_190205.XLS

That'll serve me right for copy and pasting! (_8(I) D'oh!
Rob Bell

errrmm, that doesn't work: the file appears to be corrupted - so now have zipped it: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/carclub/mgfregister/temp/Emerald_190205.zip

Let me know if that works or not - ta. :o)
Rob Bell

Don't support you have the values measured at the wheels?
Steve Ratledge

Huh? I think there's a typo there Steve!?

But yes, the excel file contains all the data, from power/ torque at the wheels to atmospheric pressure (can't believe it was a 1000 mbar that day though???)
Rob Bell

Steve,

Just click highlight the chart in Excel and select the "Chart:Add Data" menu item. Then highlight the data in the raw data table above the chart - column C is Power at the wheels.

Dave Livingstone

Duh... Time for glasses, I did not spot column C
Steve Ratledge

Thanks Rob!.

Hmm... something strange here. My car revved higher yet had a lower top speed than the other ZSs. MPH/RPM=0.015384 for my car and around 0.016433 for the the others (about 7% difference). Any ideas?

Ralph

Ralph

Tyre pressures ?
Mike (Mersea)

I agree - 7% is quite a difference. Pressures could be part responsible as Mike suggests, and so could the tyre diameter - are your tyres fairly well worn Ralph? Not sure whether that would explain the full 7% difference though.

Perhaps drop DW an email to see what he thinks?
Rob Bell

Worked for me once it was zipped - cheers Rob (and cheers for the advice Saturday too - we called it off in the end, live to fight another day :-) ).

SF
Scarlet Fever

Yup, I reckon that was probably the safest decision Andrew! Shame though - question is - how best to get those knuckles sorted?
Rob Bell

Need to buy them as a complete unit Rob, i have had (ringside) experience of removing the originals and they can be a real pain (can end up breaking them out with a hammer and chisel). There was a real possibility of damaging the originals during the removal, and as we needed to transfer the (damaged) ancilliery components to the new ones there was a strong possibility of ending up with an immobile car.

In my book, to do this job you need to have **complete** replacements, if you have to rely on transferring components from the old to the new then you are asking for trouble.

SF
Scarlet Fever

Yup, I completely agree...
Rob Bell

How do we know who was who?

-- and yes, I know.., should turn up in future!!
Neil H

Well, "rmb" is mine....
Rob Bell

and cpw (should be cbw really) is mine.
Dave Livingstone

DGT & DGT1 is me
Steve Ratledge

Oh.. You don't know all..

Dave;- At risk of boring you and others.., what mods does your VVC have then.. ?
172.6 is b*&^in impressive..
Neil H

And 'fev' is me - +30bhp over standard ain't too shabby :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

Neil,

That's mainly Dave Andrew's magic - my VVC has standard cams, valves and MEMS, but has a well ported head (http://www.dvapower.com). At the exhaust end this is matched to a cleaned out exhaust manifold and a Phoenix exhaust. At the inlet end there is a 52mm throttle body and ITG Maxogen system. So breathing is as well sorted as you can get without going the whole DTH TB route and having then to replace the ECU. Fuelling is slightly helped with the addition of an adjustable (FSE) fuel pressure regulator. It ran fine on the standard regulator, but the FSE allowed a coarse degree of tuning on the RR.

So, as you can see, nothing out of the ordinary other than DVA's headwork.
Dave Livingstone

You are not wrong! 30+ IS stonking.

Should have pulled your air filter out Rob..

Presumably xdr was a VVC unit?

Neil H

Neil,

No, XDR is a MPi :-)

Interestingly XDR's power and torque curves almost match my car's exactly. There is only one similarity in spec - the headwork is again Dave Andrew's. However, XDR has big valves, hot cams, DTH TBs with special airbox and custom ITG filter system and an Emerald ECU.
Dave Livingstone

My 1.8i made +35 bhp. This was the result of

an enclosed K&N 57i
52mm Alloy throttle body [£100]
Inlet plenum, deflashed and re-worked to match the cylinder head ports
Janspeed 4-2-1 exhaust manifold
Miltek Supersports exhaust

Oh and a Race Speed RS-140/150 head - Developed by Janspeed it is based around the Lotus 135 head gas flowed and ported. The inlet and exhaust valve ports have been reworked to increase the power it can develop - whilst maintaining maximum torque. Work has also been done on the inlet valve seats. The head retains standard valves (27.5mm inlet, 24mm exhaust), stems, springs, and cams.

Next I want to break the 160 bhp barrier only 7 horses to go. Hopefuly I will do this with the 135 cams.
Steve Ratledge

Okay.. So now I definately must come and watch this all kicking off next time!

XDR is unbelievable..!

Does make me question why so many people pump so much money into the standard 1.8i when the VVC gives a massive head start?!

However, as Dave L shows, once you go down the Dave Andrews route, it all pails into insignificance.

Neil H

When we bought our 1.8i I simply did not know any better. If I was choosing today I would go for the TF160 and then start improving that. But hindsight is aways different to reality. With twin baby girls there is NO chance of swapping the F for a newer model.
Steve Ratledge

Yes, it's interesting the way things develop. The urban myth has always been that an MPi is more 'tuneable', but as you say Neil, the VVC is a pretty good base level to start from, expecially in 160 mode on the TF. Look at Norman's car's results and see how it is often a tad better than mine until 5000rpm (torque) and 6000 rpm (power).

Around a track this is all irrelevant anyway. Try keeping up with Rob Bell with his low power (albeit good low end torque) around any circuit! Driver ability is far more significant - then handling and brakes.

However, if peak power is what you want the with a VVC version of the Emerald ECU now available, you can go to town and add DTH TBs without junking the VVC mechanism.

Dave Livingstone

Oo! I didn't know a ECU was now available!?
How distributes them? Mike Satur?

I think like a lot of people on here, I just fall for a gradual, but more power, bit more power lust.

But.. like Steve.., baby on the way, and no chance to spend toooooo much just yet!

Neil H

Neil,

Emerald M3D - from Emerald :-)

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/

VVC version is relatively new, but apparently doing well.
Dave Livingstone

>> Should have pulled your air filter out Rob.. <<

Neil, you're not wrong mate! :o/ Wish I had thought about it at the time, but was distracted by fitting a new filter to Kingsley's monster (that's XDR), and helping Steve instal his FSE fuel pressure regulator. :o)

Will let you know when we next arrange one of these jollies: I'm determined not to have the least powerful car there yet again!!! ;oD LOL
Rob Bell

Thanks Neil XDR is unbelievable!
now being fitted with new seecret weapon to make use of all that power...


Close Ratio Gearbox!!!!


Mmmm, try keeping up now!!!


ps. rob still faster round a track!
Kingsley

This thread was discussed between 04/03/2005 and 10/03/2005

MG MGF Technical index

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