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MG MGF Technical - Running-in

I've just been searching the archives for advice on running in (my TF160's arriving in 4 weeks).
Is the generate concensus 600 miles < 3k, the next 1k miles up to 4k then gradually increase up to the rev limit? Oh, and vary the revs as much as possible.
It also had me wondering how stepspeed drivers run their cars in? Always in manual mode?

Darren.
Darren

Darren,
Taking care of a new engine in the way you describe is the proper wat to treat a motor, as the new parts need bedding in gently. As for Stepspeed a gentle rightfoot is required the same as a manual car.
P.S. the brakes should also be run in , in the same way no heavy braking for the 1st 1k miles to allow the pads etc. to bed in.
HTH Mike
Mike

AND a lot of people do not realise the new tyres also need to be run-in for at least 200 miles to make sure that all the slippery moulding stuff is scrubbed off - perhaps more important to a biker!

Ted
Ted Newman

Yes, I'm aware of that - especially as I saw someone drop a zx9r after driving 200 yards to a roundabout from the dealers!
Ended up back to get the fairing replaced with <1 mile on the clock.

Darren.
Darren

Darren

When running in my TF160 I found it nigh on impossible to stick to the 3k rev. limit without labouring the engine by dropping below 2k. I therefore revved up to 4k for the change and dropped back to 3k. Labouring the engine does more damage than revving a little over a prescribed limit.

If you are coming from a VVC F, I expect you will find the performance of the TF160 very disappointing. It feels as though it has treacle in the sump instead of oil. I found that after 2.5k miles the performance equalled the F and from there on it just got better.

Enjoy.

Mike
Michael Williams

Michael,

Thanks for that, I'll try to get a decent balance, it's useful to know that labouring the engine is more harmful.
re:performance, mine's currently a MPI so it shouldn't be that bad.
Having said that, the demo 135TF felt quite a bit slower than mine (K&N + TTB) when revved, though more power at the bottom end, and that had 6k on the clock!

Darren.

Darren

Darren,

When I test drove a TF135, it also felt much slower/less powerfull than my Stepspeed F which also has a K&N and TTB fitted.

Nigel
Nigel Kidd

Does the running-in method/period apply to engines that had just underwent general overhaul?

regards.
Dani

>underwent general overhaul?
Yes, if you mean piston rings/bearings etc.

Will
Will Munns

(guess who's been reading the Haynes manual!)
Will Munns

I've just spoken to a friend of mine who's had his engine rebuilt (VW, 2 litre, 200bhp + NOS) and the general concensus amongst him and his engine building chums is that modern engines do not need to be run in.
My dad's just got a Lexus 200 and was told not to worry about limiting the revs, just not to keep them consistent. So, could anyone give a technical explanation what, after the initial few hours on a dyno, will require the engine to be run it, in as much technical detail as possible which might change an engine builders opinion?

Darren.

p.s still running the TF in as described!!


Darren

>>>>and the general concensus amongst him and his engine building chums is that modern engines do not need to be run in

I've heard that a few times too. However, a new F (or a new ZS120, or a new TF, as far as I recall, Mike) 'feels' just a little like like a run-in F that is started from cold. You can almost feel some sort of syrupy friction in the engine when you try and get it to do anything. For that reason I treat the engines in new cars and cold cars with respect. Once an engine 'feels' free, then I take it as a sign that it's time to gun the bastard!

My F just changed *so* much in its first 12K, and our ZS has transformed in just 1K. Something is changing quite dramatically in that engine when it is new...

A bit of care at first can't be a bad thing. I don't think, however, that the 3000rpm thing is an absolute rule. I'd rather rev it up than either (a) labour the engine or (b) crash when pulling onto the A1!
David Bainbridge

If being careful with the engine in the first few thousand miles was not REALLY important surely the manufactures would be shouting from the rooftops please enjoy your new car straight after delivery! I am also not sure I would trust the advise from someone who is having to rebulid his engine. If it had been properly handled perhaps it would not need rebuilding?

As for the advise on your dad's Toyota, I presume boy races do not buy Lexii (or most Toyotas for that matter!).

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick Beet

It's being rebuilt literally, for more performance.
The 2l VW engine produced about 70bhp stock, so as you can imagine, the extra 130 took a bit of work. It's been run in on a dyno, increasing revs gradually, with a running off period inbetween for the best part of a day. Maybe that's what eliminates the requirement, as the factory don't have time to be so meticulous?
People who rebuild engines with new pistons/rings/cams presumably know of the dangers of overheating them through high revs/load yet all seem to insist that a few hundred miles (300 seems to be the commonly quoted figure, though I would imagine it would depend on the endine) will suffice to get them properly run-in. Not that the most performance will be gained at that point, just damage will not occur with higher revs.
So back to the original question, what needs more than 300 miles to be sufficiently run in, as in components?
Toyotas not bought by boy racers eh? Interesting. And the MR2 Turbo imported in vast quantities was aimed at the same market as my 50yr old Lexus driving father? Fancy a job in Marketing?

Darren.



Darren

Oh, though I wouldn't recommend using the:
"please enjoy your new car straight away" line without the small print "of course you're not famililar with anything about the car, and watch those brakes don't overheat/warp/be less than efficient, oh and if it's going to have a problem, we'll pray it's nothing that'll put you in a ditch when ringing it's neck on a country road"
Darren

I'm sure all those hire cars get well run in!

I also heard that you don't need to run in modern engines though there is a general concensus that the MGF's need run in... best be safe than sorry!

Cheers RichieR
RichieR

Don't hire car companies sell their vehicles when they reach a certain age/mileage? I used to use a hire car at least once a week for work and never had one with >30k miles.
Presumably running in is supposed to protect the longevitity of the engine, so a 30k miler would be fine, run in or not. I wonder whether taxi drivers run cars in, as they often see silly miles on the clock?


Darren

Darren,

I quite clearly said MOST Toyotas. I am aware that they make sports cars. But MOST of the cars they sell (95%+?) are surely those bland saloons that are the delight of newsagents. I confess I am insufficiently interested to remember the model names but also hope you would agree that MOST of these cars are not attractive to boy racers.

I have been working in marketing for many years but clearly not selling Japanese cars!

VW have a 2 litre engine churning out 70bhp! Does it run on steam?

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick Beet

In the past I used hire cars from new (delivery mileage) and thrashed them (90mph on the M6 within 5 miles) for 10000 miles before they went back. Funny thing was that these cars would be for sale on the forecourt with their service book fully stamped up including the 1000 mile inspection or oil change in some circumstances. Dealers are obviously so clever they can service cars remotely.
Neil
Neil Stothert

Patrick,

Yes, I'd agree most are bland 4 seaters, though the majority of the cars in which the K series is used aren't all that interesting! However, I don't think the 150bhp 2litre v6 powered Lexus falls into that category, after all it's aimed at the 3 series market as a sporty,refined drivers car.
70bhp from a 2 litre in the 70's, the engine's going to be fitted to a VW camper!

Darren
Darren

Darren,

I am still surprised by the low power. I seem to remember my first company car (1800 Marina!) churned out 90+ bhp in the 70s!

Age does however make the past seem rosier than it was, so could be wrong.

I think the IS200 has a straight 6 - just to prove how pedantic I can be.

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick Beet

I remember when cars were measured by HP rather than litres and the standard family saloon from the fifties was about ten HP.

Also remember that brake horse power is a measure of its tuning and the same engine can be tuned for different purposes for example the BMW Bike engine K1200 can be 130 BHP for high revs and top speed performance on a 'sports bike' or 98 BHP for torque and sheer pulling power on a 'tourer' so a 70 BHP in a cmper is probably a lot better than high BHP engine.

Ted
Ted Newman

Flat 6, yes probably, just remembered it sounded better than my 4!
Actually most of the campers at the time had smaller engines with far less power. I seem to remember 40hp from the 1st campers. I'm not too convinced about making the right sort of power either - they were all fitted with reduction boxes on the rear axels to enable them to get up hills!! 70bhp was only in the later, high spec models. As far as bikes go, yes, they do seem to reuse the same engine for different applications and retune them. I'm not convinced it's always to better suit the bike, more marketing and insurance. I seem to remember the Triumph t509 using the same motor as the t595, but it lost both torque and power!!
Marina's were the exception to the rule - 95bhp from an 1800 (though some only produced 65). They'll do the quarter in 18.9 seconds (the bus aims to crack the 15's), so I'm starting to fear for me and my tf160's credability.

Darren.

Darren

This thread was discussed between 01/08/2002 and 07/08/2002

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