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MG MGF Technical - Slow Fuel Filling - Is this the reason ?
|I'm very pleased having spent a very successful Sunday curing my 1997 VVC slow fueling problem.|
Being new to MGFs and the BBS, I asked a few weeks ago just what was going on with lots of people having problems refueling and others never a problem. I was pointed to the archives and spent a happy few hours absorbing what was there - but no definitive answer. To add, my garage had nosed around, replaced the breather (undefined item) but with no improvement.
Now let me tell you what I found today:
1. Take off the engine bay large cover, and the (standard) air filter top and box and you see the 2" diameter fuel pipe take a very easy route down passing through the bulkhead into the fuel tank.
2. Just before it passes through, some 16" from the filler cap, is a red/orange protective fabric boot (probably a heat/fire shield). This is clamped to the bulkhead with nuts and small curved plates, mine had not been refitted properly by others because access is very difficult.
3. The boot slides up the fuel pipe, but I had to cut material away from the lowermost nut since it was impossible to remove.
4. You then see a 4" long rubber connector, convoluted in the middle, joining the pipe from the filler cap the the pipe exiting the fuel tank. Mine was completely crushed, obviously a very effective inhibition to fuel flow !! I undid the top jubilee clip, stretched the rubber connector up (difficult) and retightened.
Result - I have just refilled at full pump speed. The pump head angle does matter. Those advocating 9 to 10 o'clock pump head rotation are right - it does allow full flow on a system that now has no restriction.
I can't see that the 'twisted breather' reason proposed by others is plausible. That breather pipe from the top of the tank up to the filler kneck is reasonable sturdy and so easy to see.
The connector pipe at the bottom though, that I fixed, is so hard to see and get at that I'm not surprised garages fail to find it. I am really surprised though that other amateur mechanics have not found and reported on this in the BBS - Roger of Tamworth, I'd respect your view on this point
I've also now a pretty good theory on what's causing the interior of some MGFs to smell of petrol, leaky tanks or not, and will give my repair fix a few weeks to proove itself before I report further.
Well done you guys on a good BBS.
This is excellent work, Norm. It's the type of investigation I like, take the thing to bits and try to deduce exactly what's at fault (I don't always succeed). I must admit, after reading volumes about twisted breather pipes, I couldn't see anywhere where the pipes could be twisted, not from looking through the grille, anyway. My F is so-so when filling up, slow but not that slow, so I'll leave this job to a later date.
I too have my theories about the petrol smell in the cabin, also from simple deduction. I do suffer from this problem, or rather my wife does, I just breathe it all in. I might mail you later so we can compare notes.
also amazed I took some pictures from the MGF wreck this morning from the related sections.
Please keep me up to date for a probabbly useful webside.
Or does an english mother language chap aim for this surely useful job ? ... Richard ?
|I confess I see filling with fuel as one of the new skills that F ownership requires you to learn and have got used to fighting to get the petrol into the car.|
However on the recent Treffen around Europe, I had to fill the car just about every day with their cheap petrol. In all these 8-9 fillings, I never experienced a single hiccup. If the pump stopped it was becuase the tank was full.
First fill back in Blighty and 30 seconds of filing then stop, move nozzle another 10seconds etc until tank filled
Is the real problem the settings on the pumps in the UK?
|I live in Europe and never experience this problem, but I did when I returned to the UK, after seeing the BBS about this problem I asked my brother whom works for a large petrol company, he says that the UK rules on petrol stations are stiffer than the rest of Europe, the shut off pressure is a lot lower and the little switch to keep it on is not alowed! But I must say I never experenced a blow back throwing petrol over my feet in the UK which I sometime do here so the law makers may have a point|
>> I confess I see filling with fuel as one of the new skills that F ownership requires you to learn and have got used to fighting to get the petrol into the car. <,
Hmmm, Ted'll tell you about having to fight to get petrol into his car too, especially when you're behind him in the queue <bg>.
|In Holland all petrol pumps have a brass spacer fitted that cures this problem. Holland is the only place I have seen these nozzles. I only have the problem when in other countries so I simply turn the nozzle slightly to one side and the car fills fine.|
I think the petrol smell gives it more of that classic MG feeling :-).
|At least my F no longer 'burps' when the fuel is injected too fast into the tank, like I had with my dad's Renault car. It'll burp when the nozzle shuts off, and after that the fuel level descends very quickly and you can fill at least another 5L. With an F you can hardly get 1,5L in it when it shuts off. Guess it's not a baby behavior anymore ;)|
And here in Luxembourg we all have extra 'suck-away' pipes on the fuel nozzles to reduce gaseous emittance of fuel into air.
|>And here in Luxembourg we all have extra 'suck-away' pipes on the fuel nozzles to reduce gaseous emittance of fuel into air. <|
So that is what causes all those HGFs - the suction is causing the gasket to collapse inwards and so allow gases and coolant to mix creating an explosive mixture, that then melts the manifolds.
|>So that is what causes all those HGFs |
Lucky you !! that nothing more happened to yours and Andrews car ... after filling at continental 'suck-away' pipes in last month and the following hot engines at Nurburgring.
Fun and flames get back *g*.
The basar got open :))) Boing, to the first round :)
;-) ;-) ;-)
Good that I'm so far from London :) Loving my scalp.
This thread was discussed between 01/10/2000 and 03/10/2000
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