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MG MGF Technical - SO2 locking up :o(

Dear All

I am a bit pissed off I took the F out for it's weekend morning run up to the City. I was on my way home via Brixton Hill, someone was turning right and there was an old piece of sh*t van behind him/her.

The twat in the van decided to pull out in front of me, now I was doing about 30 mph and it was up hill, thank god, I hit the brakes and sh*t... it locked up so I released, press the breaks again, this was done about three time and on each occasion it F*CKING locked up.

I was really pissed off I had the roof down and told the bloke what I thought of him, it was along the lines of he was a 'merchant banker'.

Well anyway what's going on with the tyres that are rated 9/10 by you chaps, they were better than the Goodyears though

I am seriously think of getting ride of the F. Remember I am a MGF freak too, but I am getting tired of all its faults.

Regards

Sunil

1.8i BRG N440 GYG
sunil

Hey hold a minute there Sunil.

You sound young, just like me.

Anyway, I had that thought just a week ago, because I was getting squeaky noises, in front of the dash (cross member I think, Is booked in for service tomorrow)..

I was even thinking of even getting a new beetle or a clio RS!

But then again, I cooled down, especially from Dieter's help. I looked at it, calmed down a bit...

MGF is a pretty cool car to own. For the same money, you won't get any cooler / better looking car. That's what I think. I am not into Japenese cars much myself, and that could be why I guess. [Heaps of second hand Skylines and WRXs at cheaper price than second hand MGFs]

I know you had a few bad breaks (as I have been reading though), reversing, doors, and all others...

But I remember that you have fitted Dave's K&N and SP exhausts, you should be happy!! Now... to make you love your MGF again, try getting some rear speakers. I did that myself just couple of days ago.. wow what an improvement in sound!! And you will love your F so much more, after that...

Just think more positively... MGFs are definate head turners.
:)
Hanah Kim

Not quite sure what you mean, do you mean that the brakes locked up on you? If you do how does this relate to the S02s. Are you complaining that the tyres lost grip or that the brakes locked up?

Unless you have ABS I can't see the problem, given the recent road conditions I would guess that accelerating up to 30 and having to slam the brakes on would tend to cause the car to slide whatever tyres it is using. If you have ABS then yes this is a problem as the ABS should cure this to some extent, if this is the case take it to your dealer and get.

Can't really remember my basic physics but trying to stop a car that is accelerating just as it reaches 30mph is not as easy as stopping a car traveling at a constant 30MPH. The problem with the F is that it will tend (if setup is good) to do exactly what you tell it to do without question. It leaves very little margine for error.

When I first got my F I nearly ran it into the back of someone because I over accelerated and realised too late that the traffic in front was stopping
Tony Smith

Hi...

I havent had any problems with my F so far, and I thought the breaking was especially good.. I do have the 1.8iVVC w/ ABS tho, so I dont know what the standard model is like.. But definately, the wheels are not to blame here.. And Tony is right, any car would do the same.. If you want better braking, u could fit a set of AP Racing brake discs/calipers, but that'll probably just make the car more prone to locking up maybe.. Unless you have ABS.

Hannah :) How did you get the rear speakers fitted? I'm currently building into the F a competition sound system, so I'd be grateful if u could give me some info there :)

Thanks!

Shash
Shashi Dookhee

Have to agree with Tony- the roads are evil at the moment, especially over some of London's broken greasy diesel strewn black top :o(

In my experience it is difficult to get the fronts to lock with S-02s, but having to brake immediately after accelerating over a potted road and on to parts of the carriage way that are infrequently used by traffic, is easily enough to cause lock up- in any car! Happily it sounds as though you had your car well under control and cadence braked appropriately. Nice one.

Get rid of your current 'F by all means- and buy a new 160 bhp one with ABS! ;oD

Rob
Rob Bell

... or you could do what Rob said ;p That one already comes w/ the AP Racing brake set (altho only on the front wheels, as I recall..).. Looks nice tho, and only 22K ;)

Shash
Shashi Dookhee

Re-read the Autocar article. Incredibly the Trophy 160 does not come with ABS... :oO

Surprised? I am!

Rob
Rob Bell

Dear All

I am 24 years old Hanna, not too young. But anyway I have had a great day with the F went to London bought a suit drove there and back with roof down and heating up full :) and the sound of the SP exhaust rasping away, it was great fun thought the strand upderpass. :P

But getting back to the SO2's well the brakes locked up and the tyres did not grip very well, infact the tyres just skided along and if I had not pumped the brakes, crash bang wallop I would have gone.

Remember I have also had the car set up by Feltham or Farnham (I can remember which one, but a few others have been there) tyres.

Also I do tend to swear alot when I am angry, sorry folks :P

Regards

Sunil

1.8i BRG N440 GYG
Sunil

Real drivers don't need ABS :) I guess it adds to cost and weight of the vehicle as well...
Steven

Oh my.. you're right.. I didnt realise! Why on Earth have they dropped the ABS from the flagship! It surely must be an optional extra tho??!

Shash
Shashi Dookhee


My guess is that for the ABS to work well with the new AP brakes MG would
need to change (beef up?) the ABS pump and associated gumff. Looks
like ABS may not be compatible ?
Or it could be a cost saving of course... :-(

Shame that it's not on the new car. I use my ABS regularly... (but that may be because
my brakes are very very good at stopping you but aren't progressive in feel...) and I'd
be lost / dangerous in a car without them.

Guess I'll just have to try the new car out and see how easy it is to lock them up.

Q: What makes 'good' brakes ?
Is it raw stopping power ?
Progressive feel ?
WIll both reduce the likelyhood of locking up ?

P.
Paul Nothard

>But getting back to the SO2's well the brakes locked up and the tyres did not >grip very well, infact the tyres just skided along and if I had not pumped the >brakes, crash bang wallop I would have gone.

Locked up wheels do not grip very well that's the whole point of ABS and for another matter the correct action you took to reduce your speed quickly. As already pointed out unless you have ABS that has failed to do it's job then you've very little to complain about TBQH. There are a lot a variables that will effect how much braking pressure can be a applied before the wheels stop rotating and you start to skid. On this occasion it sounds as though you reached this point sooner than you expected or would have liked.
Paul Lathwell

Sunil and any other "not too young" drivers,

In terms of experience, 24 is really no age and even if you've been driving daily since you passed your test on your 17th birthday, you are still relatively inexperienced and still have much too learn - why else would motor insurance companys make heavy premium loadings for drivers in these age groups - the statistics show it that's why!

Even the young Senna and Schumacher were prone to basic driving errors - we saw them all for ourselves many times on the TV - and we are told that these are some of the greatest drivers with finest reactions and skills that ever drew breath! Schumacher does not make those same mistakes now .... but, now there are other mistakes and he is still learning!

Experience is accumulative and even though I've been driving and riding for over 41 years now, hardly a day goes by without I add to my total "experience bank".

Impossible for me to be certain from here but from what you have said, I believe you "reflex" over reacted and consequently over-braked INITIALLY for the given conditions. Perfectly understandable! Road surfaces, tyre type and condition, diesel spills, other drivers' behaviour etc all played their part here. We've all been there, done that! However, next time "White Van Man" pulls a similar stroke, you will handle that situation and others better as a result of this experience. Remember too that all those muscles and reflexes in your braking action will retain just a little more "feel" or "memory", call it what you will, for next time you're suddenly faced with a similar situation. This "feel" too is accumulative. With each experience just maybe you wont lock up those wheels under braking next time, ABS or not!

There is no doubt in my mind that ABS is a mixed blessing. Drivers relying on ABS all the time become conditioned to it and simply extend (or should that be reduce?)their "safe" braking margins accordingly. As a result, when they do get taken by surprise, the outcome can be shall we say spectacular! Witness driving behaviour during the recent freezing snow conditions all over the country when no amount of modern car technology was a good substitute for experience and common sense. Many not so young drivers had not experienced those driving conditions before.

So, dont be too quick to blame the tyres, the car, the weather, white van man; you name it because when all said and done, it is you in control. You and I can have the finest tyres in the world but, they can still lock up under certain conditions ......

Be interested to know how others see it.

John McFeely.
John McFeely

Since no one has actually checked that section of road surface for it's condition at that time, then discussion about the performance of the tyres and car are completely wasted.

There is one useful point to make and that is the way in which the whole incident developed, suddenly! Quite how suddenly is a matter of conjecture, as in so many occasions expereince does give an insight that allows you to see more, and anticipate better.

Rog

Roger Parker

I am 24 aswell, and the other day had a major lock-up in my Abby (with 215/40 F1's) which normally provide so much grip it's unreal!! It takes those kind of events to make you learn more about your car and road surfaces etc. But I tell you something, if you are not used to it, it takes alot of courage to take your foot off the brake to start cadence braking!!!

I am in total agreement with the experience thing. I have been driving since my 17th birthday, nearly everyday blah blah blah, but I definately don't think I'm a good driver, however I would like to think that I am a tad more observent (bar the above event!) than most (that is only really judged by what other drivers do!). Roger is right, there is no substitution for experience and anticipation of what other drivers are likely to do.

Chris
R585 ERO

PS. Burning rubber smells foul doesn't it!!!
Chris George

And don't forget the fact is Sunil did manage to stop and control the car under what ever the conditions where. so a good job by him i reckon.

Sunil, have you said if you have ABS or not - i'm guess not or ou'd have been fuming about that not the tyres. and recently my S02s haven't been up to normal standards an di put it down to bad road conditions, its all very greasy out there at the moment.

As for ABS i have it and i'm glad i have. i didn't want it but it was on the car that was available so i got it by default. I think the Fs light front end makes it easy to lock up, so ABS helps. Its the first car i had with ABS and although i only had 5 years driving experience with normal brakes it still took my a long time to force my self in an emergency to stamp on the brakes and leave it there to gain any advantage from having ABS. Now i still don't rely on the ABS and don't feel it kick in much. i try to feel whats going on and prevent the wheels locking up, but then if it does rather than cadence brake i stamp on the pedal. But what worries me is that there must be people out there swapping between the two, and maybe going from ABS to non ABS and i can quite easily see people using ABS breaking style on normal brakes and slip sliding into things. i guess all i can do is remember if i ever drive another car is to make sur ei know if its got ABS or not and then keep it at the fron tof my mind if it hasn't.
Matt

>> Experience is accumulative and even though I've been driving and riding for over 41 years now, hardly a day goes by without I add to my total "experience bank". <<

....at the risk of sounding age-ist..........if experience is accumulative, why is it that all the old(er) people round here have forgotten how to use their indicators. Also, they can't seem to get the idea of mini-roundabouts into their heads!!!!!! :p

Dave

Dear All

Humm sorry I forgot to say that I do not have ABS or Power steering on my F.

Regards

Sunil

1.8i BRG N440 GYG
Sunil

>....at the risk of sounding age-ist..........if experience is accumulative, why is it that all the old(er) people round here have forgotten how to use their indicators. <

They (we) haven't forgotten we never had them to remember! and most of them (us) drive 'tin tops' so can't get our whips up in the air to show you which way we are going. As to mini roundabouts, it was only the other day that I discovered that they were not just blobs of dropped paint.

>Have to agree with Tony- the roads are evil at the moment,<

Actually I find that with all the rain we have had recently the roads are much cleaner and less greasy than in summer but of course they are also wetter but we do all make allowances for wet surfaces dont we?


Ted
Ted Newman

>> They (we) haven't forgotten we never had them to remember! and most of them (us) drive 'tin tops' so can't get our whips up in the air to show you which way we are going. As to mini roundabouts, it was only the other day that I discovered that they were not just blobs of dropped paint. <<


LOL :-)



Dave

Dave

Hi all,

I'm actually only 22, but I consider myself to be a better than average driver... I constantly like to push any car I'm in close to its limit so that I know what kind of performance to expect from them.. As long as you know your car well, you should be able to control her too.. Of course, I'm not saying that experience wont increase my skills as a driver, but I really do not think that older drivers are the only "good" drivers around (believe me, I know some people that have been driving for over 30 years, yet still cant drive to save their lives!).

John: As for insurance companies putting up their premiums, they would use *any* excuse to overcharge you. Usually, "younger" drivers would be the ones wanting sportier cars (hot hatches, modified, etc), and the insurance companies know that if they want it enough, they'll just have to pay. However, I'm not defending all young drivers. Most of them in fact are very hot-headed, and do the stupidest things.. Just dont assume that *just* because a driver is young, they are inexperienced and do not know how to drive properly. People should be taken individually, not as a stereotype.. Cuz stereotyping can be prejudice ;)

Chris: I have an Abingdon VVC too, with 215/40 F1's, and you're right.. Usually they have extraordinary grip, but just a little bit of ice and you're reduced to driving at 10mph :P I suppose it should be expected tho, considering the F is rear-wheel drive.. But what fun it can be (as long as u are sensible about it! ;))

Thanks

Shash

*waits for the flame war ;) *
Shashi Dookhee

Wahey, yet another abby driver! The last few weeks with icy bits has been fun, and yes as long as one is aware that it gets loose on ice (well okay loose in an understatement) then everythings okay (and you learn that VERY quickly!).

I see your point about age, I know alot of older drivers who are no better than our age range (if not worse cause they get complacent), so it is very difficult, if not impossible, to make generalisations. I know (one or two) 18 year olds who show more maturity and awareness behind the wheel than, a few of the 40+ I know. I agree that most 17-20 lads see themselves as budding schumachers or McRae's in their Saxo's, (and it's actually very funny watching their behaviour!) and as a result it is very difficult to _not_ stereotype them.

I suppose what I am trying to say is at the end of the day we should not judge people by how old they are as much as how they drive. So there ;-)

Next....

Chris
R585 ERO
Abingdon 1.8i, a spanking gorgeous little motor
Chris George

Shashi made me laugh :

I'm actually only 22, but I consider myself to be a better than average driver...

and modest as well I see!


Lonny

This thread was discussed between 07/01/2001 and 10/01/2001

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