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MG MGF Technical - TF cooling fans

I managed to prise the keys from the SWMBO this weekend and due to it being well warm the fans were doing their stuff(thankfully!) but I noticed that both the engine bay and rad fan come on and switch off together. Is this a mod on TFs as I'm sure my 2001 mpi fans were independant?
Tony

I'd expect that this was co-incidental - unless the fans were running on after ignition off, in which case they're timed out at 8 minutes (although I don't think that the rad fan can run on, as it is on an ignition switched power supply...
Rob Bell

Andy Phillips has a thread running on one of the other Forums just now asking who has engine bay sensors. It seems that the latest TF don't have them. Which then asks the question, are both fans using the same sensor?
David Clelland

I was actually testing that the front one ran as a chums F had a HGF following a failure and we dont want that! It came on twice in a couple of minutes and both fans were in sync some maybe the ECU does drive them now. Where is/was the bay sensor?
Tony

Tony, on MGFs the sensor is located to the right of the engine bay, mounted from the deck panel as you peer into the engine bay from the boot.

It is possible that this sensor has been relocated on the TF?

Has anyone got access to a late TF wiring diagram? The electrical systems for later TFs were substantially altered - but this diagrams will provide an answer to this conundrum.
Rob Bell

I'll have a look for a sensor tonight - which forum has Andy got the other thread on?
Tony

>>which forum has Andy got the other thread on?<<


http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=79584
David Clelland

Seems likely that the sensor has become repositioned - although we've not yet got that confirmed...
Rob Bell

Rob, you are such an optimist ! ;O)
Surely the Beancounters has done it again!
/ Carl
Carl

>although we've not yet got that confirmed...
It's gone from the usual location above the coolant expansion tank in any way.

Seen myself: VIN 638xxx and onwards hasn't.
I wonder whether they introduced the removal together with the coolant level sensor.
This would be already with VIN 632xxx

I've no information about modified wiring currently.
But eager on getting, though.
:)

@Graham H.
@Nigel D.
You've taken part on the VIN survey recently.
http://www.mgfcar.de/vin
If you read here,
can you have a look for the _empty_ bracket above the coolant tank ?
http://www.mgfcar.de/coolant/no_engine_bay_sensor_DSC05303.JPG
Dieter

ROFL - the glass is always half full Carl, never half empty ;o)
Rob Bell

>Seen myself: VIN 638xxx and onwards hasn't.

Update RE Vin range. Thank You to the sender.

636xxx hasn't got the fan sensor.

Any earlier out there with direction 632xxx ?
Dieter

>Surely the Beancounters has done it again!

At last it was to late ... ;)
Dieter

(final) update after some more input :)

4D632424 engine bay temperature sensor replaced
99% true

The same date when the new coolant level sensor got introduced.

Thank You to all who responded.

Cheers
Dieter
PS. new wiring circuit missing though ;)
Dieter

Good work Dieter. But where is the new sensor (assuming that it has been replaced)?
Rob Bell

My guess is that there is no separate sensor for the engine bay fan. As both fans comes on at the same time it might be very simple = sensed by the coolant sensor.
They might have assumed that when the engine is that hot, and a need for front radiator fan(s) to kick in, it is better to ventilate the engine bay as well.....
/ Carl.
Carl

I don't think so Carl. Engine bay temperature need not correlate at all well with coolant temperature. Significantly, Matt revealed that his 04 TF had no obvious engine bay temperature sensor, and yet Testbook revealed that MEMS had recorded engine bay temperatures ranging from 64 to 127¼C (see http://forums.mg-rover.org/showpost.php?p=880524&postcount=18 )

Matt also points out a curious sensor adjacent to the expansion tank (see link above) - whether this is the 'missing' water temperature sensor I have no idea - but it ought to be relatively easy to find out - assuming that you had ready access to a TF with a 'missing sensor'.
Rob Bell

>new wiring circuit missing though ;)

I'd like to repeat my point of view.
Everything else beside of DIY measures and/or clear images is just guesswork.

Errrm ;) .. while we are on guesses, ;-)
The part on the above image is indeed a connector. Width of the part reflects on a two position connector.
However it could be also the no longer used of the engine bay sensor, or the connector to the earlier removed exhaust valve thingy.

Dieter

Agreed Dieter - we need access to a car with a 'missing sensor' to work this out. Or better still - the wiring diagram for a late model TF!
Rob Bell

I'm back - my 2003 53reg does have a sensor thingy forward of and above the coolant tank, look a bit like a Rolo with a short perforated bar sticking out. Guess it is a wiring diagram job then!
Tony

Still on my wild guesses,even if Dieter disslikes ;O)
Might it be that the engine bay sensor is placed in the MEMS unit? In this way there is a fair protection from overheating the electronics. But as said,a schematic will reveal it all...Waiting with interest on the outcome./Carl.
Carl

I'm I following this correctly? My TF does not have an engine bay temp sensor or a coolant level warning thingy.
Should I be worried? At the moment I'm only concerned ;-)

Its a 2004 model TF160.

GrahamH

Graham - can you fill in Dieter's VIN survey? Looks as though the engine bay temperature sensor moved prior to the introduction of the coolant level sensor...


"Don't panic Mister Manner-wing" ;o)
Rob Bell

Rob,
632xxx _was_ 4D
;)
assuming on early June

However, the more _input_, the more precise wil be the _output_ from the *statto* ... LOL

http://www.mgfcar.de/vin
is looking forward to your input.

Carl, there's quite a difference between guesswork and a reasonable _theory_ ;)

RE MEMS unit
*no info from files about any change since 600101*

RE MHK100520 ambient air sensor
*no info in the files when they dropped or moved it*
I think it might be still there.

but another term to heat up theories
The rear fan assemply had a late change....
cars with Manual gearbox MPI at 4D 627889
cars with Automatic gearbox and VVC at 4D 626718

The main harness will reflect to changes also.
*to many to list here*. There are 104 different harness P/Ns at TF until VIN 639630 (RHD+LHD)
They put them down to 10 different (RHD+LHD) at the latest mgtf then.

Cheers
Dieter
Dieter

'Graham - can you fill in Dieter's VIN survey? Looks as though the engine bay temperature sensor moved prior to the introduction of the coolant level sensor...'

Rob, I've already done it, and answered a supplementry e-mail from Dieter - in one of my many on-line disguises;-)
Graham

PS I found that putting my email address on the BB attracted a lot of spam, so I travel incognito now.
GrahamH

Got it.
... if it was you with supplementry e-mail.

The car was made near the borderline between 4D and 5D. Make year is nonerelevant in this case.

I've now two _without_ level sensor made after the said change.
And five VIN's with both included.
Therein, one Edition Spark with sensor(s) and another without sensor.
Anyway whether TF160 or TF135.

This could mean the usual _not on point change_ to the newest design. Mixed versions after the _official_ change.

For the files
Change was app. between
4D632424 and currently 5D635404
Dieter

Incedentally, the car that sparked this all off on the other forum (a Sunspot Yellow TF), also didn't have any control gear for the exhaust flap gizmo.

This car had been fitted with an aftermarket system, but what was interesting was that rather than simply disconnect the control module behind the expansion tank the whole assembly was missing - it looked like a factory deletion rather than an aftermarket disconnection if you know what i mean.

Anyone know if it was deleted? Anyone got a 2004/5 spec TF and can have a look for it?

Just curious...

SF
Scarlet Fever

Andrew,

another mixed installation saga. We talked about it some month ago and also in 2002 on MGF Trophy matters. (ANC in the archives)
They are rare in the UK, but more are mounted to export cars. This is assumingly due to the earlier availability of the UNIPART exhaust. Needs for ANC in 2002 may have been caused from EEC rules (guesswork)

i.e.
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=69&subjectar=69&thread=2004102319561827938

ANC got dropped finally with VIN 631655
*all not proven*
Dieter

I'm a bit confused regarding the coolant level sensor. The hazard warning light symbol has been replaced by what looks like a radiator but I can't can't find any sensor connected to the coolant expansion tank. However I have found a connector with green and black wires that isn't connected to anything. Is is possible that I have all the wiring in place but a coolant tank without the sensor ? (and if so would it be a relatively easy and cheap job to get the coolant expansion tank replaced ?)

Thanks

Nigel
Nigel

got your email.

I think you are right with your theory. Looks like you have a sample from just _while on change_ to the additional sensor and the unused plug is for this level sensor.
Nothing known about the wiring currently from my side.

Expansion bottle with level sensor P/N RPCF000160 and Sensor RPCJ000040
Bottle and sensor are availiable as spares, but the question is:
Where and how does the unused? cable end on the instrument pack side.

I think this will be of almost interest for all the techies.
Dieter

update for the archives.

Looks like some cars out there have
- the wiring harness with connector, but no level sensor installed.
I wonder where the cables other end is at the instrument pack side.
Dieter

Dieter,

I should have the answer to that when I take the car in to the dealers to get a couple of other minor things sorted, but it looks like the cable is attached to the instrument panel because it lights when the starter switch is first turned on and then extinguishes after a second or two.

Nigel
Nigel

Might be interesting to see what happens if you short circuit the unused connector spades with a paperclip while the engine is running.
Light off ?? Or nothing ??
:)
Dieter

This thread was discussed between 20/06/2005 and 03/07/2005

MG MGF Technical index

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