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MG MGF Technical - The 'powerslide' Dream
|i wonder why my F doesn´t loose the rear at all? when cornering in wet conditions, near the limit it always loose the front... if i push it harder...the harder it will understeer!It can loose the rear but it has that stupid reaction: oversteer - correction - oversteer - correction...in dry conditions..there is no oversteer at all!...i drove an Z3 2.0 and you could put the rear dancing your own rythm. Does fiiting a limited slip diff put any life my 96 VVC? I keep dreaming with huge "controled" powerslides in my F ...is the any hope? :-(|
nice to see you again.
Happy new year :)
I've had a little power slide just this evening in only little wet conditions, but 7° C, unwanted but easy to control because of low speed and wide road.
I think it can be your tyre equipment and tyre pressure that 'prevents' you.
Anyway, I think that 'security' can be changed ;-)
Can you add which tyres you use ?
Brand and dimensions ?
|You will only lose the back end of the F if the wheels spin - and that relies on either too much power for the grip, or a bump in the road.|
You cannot powerslide an F (as they do on Top Gear for example), because the weight balance is wrong.
|Not sure that power sliding everywhere is too efficient. You tend to get places faster if you don't slide at all, it may loog good on the TV but it's not the fastest way to get round a corner (unless your a Rally driver of course).|
|No powerslides with a F?|
I can powerslide my F ('97 VVC + K&N) nearly under all conditions! Except on dry, warm, even roads. But as far as ambient temperature drops, or there is a chance of wet, or uneven asphalt, or just a little bend you can powerslide the rear. And my tyres are definitely not the worst choice (Goodyear Eagle F1, full grip tyres).
|>I can powerslide my F |
A powerslide is *very* different from the back end sliding out and recovering it....a powerslide is deliberately putting the back end out and maintaining it all the way around a corner.
Powersliding can be an efficient way to go around a very tight corner, and it can certainly be fun, but it eats tyres...
I'd be very impressed to see anyone balance an F in a powerslide - even Russ Swift had to change the mechanicals on his F's to do the stunts at Silverstone (sorry to disappoint - but those F's were fixed).
an interesting discussion. IMO that 'real' powerslide that Casey described is not the behavior that Markus meaned.
A german friend reported from a 'driver instruction course' at any german racecourse that the experiance there was:
The MGF can no longer be controlled back straight on a slippy road if the rear axle gets more then 40cm out of the straight ahead line.
They force this at the course by a hydraulic moved plate in the course road. (front axle passes and when the rear axle meets the plate it is fast moved to the right or left side).
Markus, what is your impression, can you confirm this in any way ?
>- but those F's were fixed).
Is that a 'differential gearbox lock' ?
PS ... had the last powerslides 25 years ago with my 1300 VW beetle ... :)
|>>- but those F's were fixed).|
>Is that a 'differential gearbox lock' ?
Yes, plus a couple of other bits Russ mentioned (and I forgot because I'm not a mechanical techie ;-)
The handbrakes had the ratchets removed (to allow the handbrake turns), and they were seriously uprated. He had also changed something else to allow the back wheels to lock (can't remember what), as with a rear wheel drive car a handbrake turn is theoretically impossible - the engine will overpowr the handbrake.
40cm sounds about right for the F - I certainly never enjoyed putting the back out much more than that, it was always a recovery situation.
|I can easily powerslide my F ... on snow !|
Nevertheless it's very funny
to be more precise, doing a clean powerslide with the intent of going faster through the curve, is hard to manage on a F - from my point of view. The F is not the car you can balance easily when the back end is out - what you can do with a Porsche for example! Thus full agreement with Casey.
But what Bruno initially asked, aimed more or less to spinning wheels (in curves), didn't it? I don't face understeer, unless I'm not entering too fast into the curve. You *can* start the back wheels spinning as long as the corner is tight enough. And I would say one can "powerslide" a F through a hairpin (you'll find enough of them in the mountains of Austria ;-). I do not claim to be faster and I just dare to do that when I know the road, have (more than) enough space, and no other cars in visibility - but afterwards the WOOOOAAA effect comes :-)))
|As casey said: "a powerslide is deliberately putting the back end out and maintaining it all the way around a corner." You can do that on a BMW Z3... i saw that because a frien of mine has one with 245 Bridgestone in the back ... Can you imagine the "f" with those tires? You wouldn´t Powerslide at all...even with snow :)....it was a 2000cc Z3....a turtle! I saw a "limited slip diff" anounced in moss homepage... my question is : since the Z3 has a limited slip diff it is able to powerslide, so that, by installing that unit in the "f" it might be able to powerslide... because i´ve noticed that the loss of traction in the interior rear wheel would easyly put the rear out, if passed to the outer wheel! What do you guys think? By the way..my "f" has Goodyear eagle F1 205/50..but MARKUS..FULL GRIP????? only in the wet! I´ve never tried other but Bridjestone´s have much more grip in dry conditions then Goodyear´s!|
|>handbrake turn is theoretically impossible|
Except in reverse, I saw the Rockford Files Too :-)
When I did an MG organised day at Zolder, when I asked the racing driver who was giving me a few tips (oh no!) about traction with the F he said that mid engine RWD cars can be tricky because you don't get much warning when you reach the limit of traction. With a front engine RWD you get more of a pendulum effect and plenty of notice.
Mind you, he did drive an MR2. He said the MGF had more class though (whatever that means).
>>as with a rear wheel drive car a handbrake turn is theoretically impossible - the engine will overpowr the handbrake.
What you do is, you dip the clutch at the moment of yanking on the handbrake. Now if you'd bought that cheap midget and done some autotesting a year or so back, you'd have known that !
Never done it in an F mind, and even in a Midget we used to fit almost-bald tyres on the back and then inflate to 40 psi. I suspect you'd have to be going a lot quicker to unstick modern tyres on an F.
Tim Hipwell might know, he used one effectively in the California Cup at Silverstone.
|>What you do is, you dip the clutch at the moment of |
>yanking on the handbrake. Now if you'd bought that
>cheap Midget and done some autotesting a year or so
>back, you'd have known that !
Now that's cheating :-) And I still wish I had the time to take a Midget out autotesting - something always seems to prevent me :-(
|Wonder how the steptronic will cope with handbrake turns when in 'auto' mode?|
9408 SD 76
>>- but those F's were fixed).
>Is that a 'differential gearbox lock' ?
>Yes, plus a couple of other bits Russ mentioned (and I forgot because I'm not a mechanical techie ;-)
Me too NOT, but you know everything 'unknown' is interesting for 'half techies' like me. I think the 'other changes' at the 'two different coloured MGF' of Russ relate to the tension bar, springs etc.
Anyway, its worth to discuss about it after the next Silverstone event.
You know the 'interests' now .. ehyy ? :) Please, let a tape recorder run then :)
I think the answer is BBooooooOOOOOMMM!
This thread was discussed between 14/01/2000 and 19/01/2000
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