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MG MGF Technical - Uprating Brakes
|I am thinking of uprating my brakes by fitting Mike Satur's braided hose kit but my local MG dealer says that it is unlikely I will notice any difference. He recommended green stuff brake pads and uprated grooved discs.|
Has anyone fitted these or any alternatives - I can't afford mega 's.
I have heard mixed reports on green stuff pads - a mate got through a set in less than 100 miles in his Puma on a track day at Bedford Autodrome last year.
Any help much appreciated.
|C A Estall|
|Your dealer is right - the hoses are a worthwhile investment, but don't really impact braking performance; they improve pedal 'feel'|
So what you are left with are a mirad of braking upgrade performance. Some of these options are listed at http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/brakes/index.htm
Your dealer was talking about grooved and drilled rotors. These are a good idea - I'm not particularly fussed about the cross-drilling - more a fashionable aesthetic option IMO, but the grooves are a very good. Their purpose is to clear dust and gas evaporating from the pad surface away from the pad/disc contact area. So whilst any groove or cross-drilled hole may actually reduce the swept area of the pad, the grooves actually improves braking performance by clearing all the unwanted pad debris.
EBC pads. These are fine on road cars - even those driven hard. The Green Stuff pads are great, because they produce less dust in normal usage. However, on the circuit, black and green stuff pads don't really stack up all that well. They over heat, disintegrate and wear at an alarming rate. Usually in a cloud of dust and smoke...
So, decide how much track work you plan. If none, than use Green stuff pads by all means. Just don't expect too much in the way of improved braking performance.
If some track use is anticipated, then I'd go for Mintex pads. 1144s are great (I use 1177s, but 1155 and even 1166s are readily available) - they put up with the abuse exceptionally well, and are reliable and consistent.
Pad and disc options are available from B&G, Mike Satur and Tech-speed motorsport - and all three companies are worth phoning to discuss your braking requirements.
Hope this helps :o)
|There is no reason you can't fit the pads without chaing the discs, and you should get most of the performance upgrade on these alone. Note, if the pads aren't wearing then the disc's will be!|
|Tell your insurer. Direct Line wanted an extra 7 quid a year if I swapped to Green Stuff on the front. Bizarre, but true. I suspect the risk profile changes if you show yourself to be someone who is prepared to modify your car.|
The pads are a service replacable item, if your insurers charged you more for a different make of replacement pads to go in the standard calipers on the standard pattern disks then where will this end? - more money for a non genuine oil filter, or a "halfords" bulb instead of a Rover one. What about different brand tyres, if they are still the same size and the same speed rating then I see no reason to tell the insurers, but maybe I should. Oh yes I have a different make of scren washer fluid as well, and different wiper blades!
Sorry for the rant, but I just feel that insurance companies are such rip off merchants.
|>>What about different brand tyres, if they are still the same size and the same speed rating then I see no reason to tell the insurers, but maybe I should<<|
Yes, you should - esp. in view of MG's recommendations on tyres. I certainly told mine when I changed to Bridgestones - and they just said 'no problem'.
Most insurers will want to know if you fit pattern parts - eg if you fit a kwik-fit exhaust. read the small print from your insurer.
>>There is no reason you can't fit the pads without chaing the discs<<
That's what I thought - but I was proved wrong.
It's OK to change pads if they're the same type.
It *might* work if changing just pads - it all depends on wear on the disc.
I have EBC green pads (front and rear) and roversport grooved discs (front only) with braided hoses - and I'm very happy with this. I used to have Mintex pads with standard discs - but wear rates on both and cost of pads was alarming.
I do not see where this will end, do you tell your insurance company that you have a replacement bulb from Halfords, or a different brand of wiper blade (both essential for safe driving)?
If you have an accident repair, the insurance companies themselves often fit non genuine replacement panels and use non genuine paint. They could then charge extra premiums for the parts they fitted not being genuine!
If you buy a secondhand car how are you to know what the original fitment tyres were? Sometimes it is stated in the handbook, but often it just states a size and speed rating.
If I tried to list all the non genuine Rover replacement parts on my car the list would be massive: battery, bulbs, brake pads, bolts, hoses, clamps, cam belts, head gasket, oil, washer fluid, wiper blades and radio etc. Should I really submit this list to my insurance company for judgement and if so who else does?
I agree - it does get ridiculous.
I changed insurance company from the one (I think it was Admiral) that put so many reasons to notify in the contract.
Strangely, they never changed the premium for any of the changes - until I changed the suspension.
I am with Admiral!
I will look at my policy tonight and perhaps give them a call to let them know I have topped up the washer fluid with a different brand to see what they say!
|I spoke to someone at Mike Satur the other month and he didn't speak highly of Green Stuff pads. He mentioned the quality of Green stuff aint that good.|
He recommended Black Diamond pads and so far so good.
(it makes me feel dirty and cheap to diagree with Rob Bell, sorry Rob)
.......i think i'll shower and hide
|LOL Rob - actually I agree - I wasn't impressed with Green stuff pads either. When I removed the GS pads from my front calipers (I was replacing them in favour of race-spec Mintex pads rather than because of wear), I discovered that the pad blocks of the EBCs had started to disintegrate 8o( Not good.|
I've not tried the black diamond pad/disc combinations, but they are regularly publicised in the max-power style mags; independent testing seems to suggest that they perform very well - so certainly worth considering :o)
|<<The Green Stuff pads are great, because they produce less dust in normal usage. >>|
I too have to disagree with you Rob. In my experience they produce more dust than any pad I have fitted. Even with mild driving I have to clean the wheels with Wonder Wheels every time I wash the car. The front wheels are usually dark grey/black and the dust seems very greasy. I am considering changing back to standard Rover items because of this. The braking effect feels much the same for both types.
|Interesting, maybe the problem with Greenstuff is that they are inconsistant?|
In my experience with them they produced hardly any dust, but would only last around 6-8 months before the pad material broke up. Certainly they never survived the Nurburgring.
So i switched to Redstuff - never again! Basically under normal driving conditions they were no better than standard. On the track, even the Nurburgring, i couldn't generate enough heat to improve thier performance.
So i bit the bullet and spent a load of cash doing the job properly.
MS 4 pots, 280mm Black diamond discs and pads front.
MS grooved rear discs and Mintex 1155 pads rear.
Fantastic. Not that this helps you much CA, you aren't in a position to spend this amount.
Personaly i reckon the pad material is key. The other items improve its' effectiveness. To this end i would recommend the Mintex pads that Rob mentioned earlier, changing the rear pads to these dramatically improved the braking on the rear and i have driven Robs car with them on the front as well and to be honest, they are pretty close to the 4 pots.
This thread was discussed between 23/07/2003 and 26/07/2003
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