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MG TD TF 1500 - 52 TD front brake

pull the driver side front wheel today. my front brake would get hot and i could not adjust it to keep it from dragging.
i tapped the hub off with a hammer and it came off after a little while. just before it came off a nut fell out from somewhere. i looked all over and could not find where it should go. maybe it was left in behind the brake by the PO.
well as i got the wheel off, the brakes pads came right off with it. could they have been lose and the problem i had? not sure.
luckily the inner bearing and race came out in the wheel. although the race fell out of the wheel.
so first question is which way does the race go back in? is the beveled side facing in? that would seem right with the curve on the axle.
anyone got any idea where this nut might go? i can't even find a bolt that small around the wheel area or above it.
anything i should order when i order the new shoes?
i was going to order shoes from Moss.
good place as any to get them?


TLW Wright

best to get insrutctions on putting in the new shoes?

TLW Wright

the mystery nut...

TLW Wright

TLW - One thing that jumps out to me is that the wheel cylinder that is pointing down still has the piston in it. This tells me that the cylinders are sticky and definitely need to be serviced or new ones installed.

The nut is not a common nut and shouldn't be inside the drum. How it got there is anybodies guess. somewhere along the life of the car it got in the drum and whoever was assembling things didn't notice it. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

Dave
Thanks. I went out and pulled out the cylinders. Cleaned them up and now it just falls out. There is a seal under it and there does not seem to be any leaks around it. Mainly it was just dust holding the cylinder in.
So guessing no leaks in there means they are ok?
I am thinking the same thing on the nut. It was dropped and ended up behind the shoe... Never to be found. It may have fallen from another place also and it just looked to come from the wheel. I was really not looking for it.
The top of the cylinders have two ridges the adjusters slide in. I assume they just sit there. They are not held by anything but the springs holding the shoes. Is that correct?
TLW Wright

Also I was thinking when I get the new shoes in and before I put the wheel on, I would get the wife to push the brake pedal and see that the shoes not only move out but also return. Good plan? Or should I have the wheel on when I check this?

Last I figured once the wheel was back on I would adjust tight then push the brake pedal to center the brakes before backing off the adjusters.

My book is terrible about any details to do these things.
TLW Wright

TLW . don't ask your wife to push the pedal with the drums of. If you do that the pistons will fly out of the housing with brake oil .It's a messy clean up.

Better : to put the drum on even half way so you have a tiny view about the shoes Then ask your wife to push the pedal as you described. And observe

Cheers,

Gerard
Gerard Hengeveld

See Dave Braun's website. Lots of pictures of how to do brakes.
efh Haskell

TLW - First thing, Dave Braun's web site is at: http://www.dbraun99.com/ Lots of good pictorial information there.

Next thing, How long have you had you TD? If for many years, when was the last time the brakes were serviced? From the fact that the brake lining of the brake shoes had fallen off, I am guessing a pretty long time. You need to do a complete brake job on the car. That entails replacing the shoes (which you are already in the process of doing on the front) on all 4 corners, replacing all of the brake cylinders (fronts can be honed rather than replacing), rebuild or replace the master cylinder, a complete flush of the brake system to get all of the old fluid/corrosion out, installing new brake fluid, bleeding the brake system to get all the air out, and adjusting all four brakes. If you have never done a brake job before, you should get some help from someone who has done the job before to guide you through the process.

There used to be a MG 'T' series club in Delaware (check the club listing on this web site) where there will be someone who can give you some guidance. If there is no one close around to help you through the process, you will need to find a brake shop in your area that is familiar with the older brake systems, preferably someplace that has done MGs before (look for the guy that looks to be about 100 years old - that's the one you want to talk to. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

To all. Thanks.
Sounds like a winter job.
TLW Wright

I agree with David, except that new wheel cylinders are so inexpensive I think best to replace. They frequently are pitted right at the piston/cup interface. If this is not perfectly smooth, it will leak and ruin your expensive new shoes. Strongly agree to get someone to help you as brakes are really important, and nuances can be missed with internet instructions. George
George Butz

There are definitely loads of parictulars like that to take into consideration. That could be a great level to carry up. I supply the thoughts above as common inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you deliver up where the most important factor will probably be working in honest good faith. I don?t know if finest practices have emerged around things like that, however I am positive that your job is clearly identified as a good game. Each boys and girls really feel the impression of only a second’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.
Ian Bowers

TL,
You said <<well as i got the wheel off, the brakes pads came right off with it. could they have been lose and the problem i had?<< but the picture shows the pads (shoes) on,,,, did you reassemble the shoes and pu them on for the pic???

I put on MOSS shoes last year,,, they are ALL NEW,,, No exchange,,, and inexpensive,,, AND they work!!!
Also,,it It might be a good idea to go with new bearings,,,,seems like yours a too loose if they just "fell out",,

STEVE
Steve Wincze

I pulled the drums off the TF which were in excellent condition, installed new wheel cylinders and new Moss brake shoes. Hardly any adjustment to make. The brakes will lock all 4 wheels. Maybe I was lucky, but I like the brakes on my car. I used Moss brakes on the 72 B and they will lock up also, using DOT 5 in both systems. PJ
Paul S Jennings

TL

From your first picture it seems that the linings were bonded (glued) and have come loose. this was your problem.

You should buy a set of linings and rivets and replace them on your shoes, this is possible as I see that the shoes are drilled.

John



J Scragg

I magnified the picture of the shoes, and it looks like they are warn down to almost nothing,,, I can't see any indication where they came loose,,,
IMHO, I would not use the old fashioned rivet system,,

STEVE
Steve Wincze

Steve,

If you look closely you can see light through the rivet holes, proving that the linings have completly gone, this is not a normal wear pattern.
Also I have been using rivets on brakes for over 50 years, with no problems, however I know of several cases of bonded linings comming loose, including from original factory installations.

John

J Scragg

I'd throw a guess that somebody used the nut for a shim...just a guess. The "race" is probably the oil seal spacer...yes it goes on with the conical surface towards the spindle.




MG LaVerne

I too would stick with the riveted kind of linings. They have worked fine for me with no issues for 45 years. Just make sure to fits them correctly. Don't forget to replace all the flex hoses. Cheap insurance. If the brake system has not been touched for some time now would be a good time to do it. Make sure you use the right brake fluid. If you go silicone fluid - whole system must be spotless (some people¡¦s choice)it is dot5 but mineral oil dot4 (Moss Castrol 12 oz. 220-455 $5.95) has been fine for me - so long as it does not get on the paint work. Change this oil out every 5 years, even if it is working find. It is hydroscopic and will absorb water, presumably through the vent hole in the master cylinder.
Re the install of the front hub and bearings. Here is the drawing which shows the assembly of the bits and the correct way round for the distance washer (needs to be smooth - Oil seal runs on the outside edge of this spacer) and oil seal spring side goes towards bearing.
BTW Moss sell a complete kit of cylinders for the TD $164.95 But order them through Jeff at the Little British Car Co for a discount. Or you could have yours S Steel lined along with the Master Cylinder for a permanent job. A little more expensive but you do keep the original parts. The new Rear cylinders from Moss, I understand, need a little work to get them to fit. Haven¡¦t used them myself though. Good luck.
For what it is worth, I also have the small beehive springs that are shown in the Moss catalog (for the rear shoes - 181-340 $1.85 SPRING, brake shoe steady) mounted to the front shoes as well. There is provision for them and if they help keep the shoes against the back plate, all the better. Some say they are anti rattle springs but I have never experienced that on My TD. Your shoes won¡¦t come off with the hub though. Don¡¦t forget to fully undo the brake adjuster - before pulling the hubs (on all wheels) It do make it easie....r ƒº
Rod



R. D. Jones

The nut may have been used as a shim under the brake adjuster mask. There is a more satisfactory fix for this on a You Tube video by John Twist. It comprises welding a small piece of metal to the bottom side the the adjuster mask.
John Quilter (TD8986)

OR, use penney's that were made the same year as your car

SPW
Steve Wincze

my original post was from last fall. i got everything working fine since then. all is good. but thanks for the suggestions.
TLW Wright

John

Tried to find the Twist Video. Do you know what it is titled? Not sure unless you have drums that are severly worn or have been turned a number of times, why you would need a spacer for the adjuster?
Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 05/09/2014 and 06/03/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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