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MG TD TF 1500 - Actual BHP XPAG supercharged

I just received a call from a TC owner, XPAG, Supercharged, W/ one of my roller cam kits. He had the engine run on a dyno;104 BHP, @ the flywheel. Now on the road & it has a very good power delevery, street driven.
Len Fanelli

Impressive figure - what sort of blower? Probably not a Judson, but a Magnacharger or other modern one. As I remember, TC racers who got good HP out of their T-series engines upgraded the brakes FIRST! Lots of HP will get one in a world of hurt when it comes to slowing down a TC...

Tom
t lange

Tom,

Let Len have his 5 minutes of pride. No need to throw cold water immediately on his parade.

Jim
James Neel TD28423

Hi folks,
I am in the market for a complete supercharger set-up for my TC. Is there a set available at a reasonable price?
P.S. Jennings

Define "reasonable". I can hook you up with the guy that produced mine. Around $3500 3 years ago. Modern maintinence free Eaton blower. 6 lbs boost out the door. Mucho fun.

LaVerne

Question, Who posted my name as looking for a blower for my TC. I don't even own a TC! And, I certantly didn't make that post! PJ
P.S. Jennings

James - I never meant to rain on anyone's parade, and remain thoroughly impressed by the HP figures. I am considering one of Len's cams right now.

My interest was in learning what else had been done to cope with that HP figure. Modifying one aspect of a car will affect others, and there is great need to work towards a balanced approach. Is this an empirical exercise, or an effort to improve a TC in some useful way?

Tom
t lange

I was thinking about $2500.00 for a good used set, and certainly not a new one. I am sure they are out there and someone just might be willing to sell....(PS)Who made yours?......
P.S. Jennings

Would the person who is using my name and address please correct the situation. PJ
P.J. Jennings

Sorry my bad. My lap automatically inserts my e-mail address to different links. Sorry for the mix-up on the supercharger.
Garth.....
Garth Posey

Tom,

Sorry, Len is in my LBC club so my defense was probably a little too spirited. At any rate I would think that if a blown TC was driven in a prudent manner the brakes should be adequate if well maintained.

Jim
James Neel TD28423

To quote a very wise man, "104 HP in a TC, no brakes, no steering, buggy suspension...Oh boy!"

Tom
t lange

LaVerne,

Other than the installation of the blower is there anything else that has to be done in the way of engine work to prepare for the blower.

Th
James Neel TD28423

Trust me...well maintained TC brakes are enough for a supercharged XPAG. These things get scary between 70 and 80...front end is light and they dance across the road even with Datsun or VW steering boxes.

Gene Gillam

James, I'm sure no expert but I think it's an absolute must that your engine be in top nick before you consider a blower. Any weak spots will be magnified by adding the blower. Example ..if your cooling is just barely getting by then you need to address that before hand. I personally wouldn't trust a stock crankshaft with one. I'm running basically a stock engine with a forged crank. Gene might be able to give you some more answers as he's running the same blower with at least a real trick exhaust manifold.

I've had the TF up to 90 mph and still felt comfortable with the car although my passenger was getting pretty nervous. I'm old so if I die I just as well go with a smile on my face. I just swapped blower pulleys and am now making 8 lbs of boost. May get another dyno run for comparison. I don't put much stock in engine stand dynos although they have there place. I'd much prefer to see rear wheel dyno bhp and the altitude it was taken at so we can get real comparison figures.

No the brakes don't match the speed in my book.
LaVerne

LaVerne,

Thanks for the detailed answer to my question. I really don't need/want to tear the motor apart so maybe I will go with upgrading to 1 1/2 in carbs if that will add to the power curve.

Jim
James Neel TD28423

I'm not running a blower mostly due to the space concerns in a TF (though I know it's be fit in one). However, due to a cracked crank and a block that's made of unobtanium (xpeg that is a numbers matching for the car), I decided to upgrade things to avoid all potential problems with the bottom end.

I've purchased a billet crank shaft and am switching to floating gudgeon pistons/rods to eliminate the pinch bolt. The idea of loosing the top end connection to a piston at ANY RPM caused me to be concerned.

Also, along with these upgrades, I'm going to 9.3:1 compression ratio, and Len's cam. I'm excited to go for the first run. Especially since when I took the car apart, I found that the lobes on my existing cam were heavily worn on all lobes, and nearly flat on two exhaust valves. It'll likely make quite a difference.

Due to the cost and challenges of locating a block, I would opt to go for a forged or billet crank, and new rods and pistons to get rid of the pinch bolt. After that, I'd have no trouble having a go with a blower.

Alex
55 TF-1500
ABW Waugh

Jim - interesting that this has come full circle, back to what I was originally saying about inter-connectedness. 1-1/2" carbs alone will provide only a small change, but they work magic with a bit more compression and larger valves; you then have arrived at Stage I in the factory tuning manual.

That is absolutely the best thing to do to a stock car - a gain of at least an easy 5hp, with matching ports and a bit of polishing. When you add a 4.3 diff or a 5-speed you utterly transform the car. But that's really as far as you can go without pulling and re-working the engine (cam, balancing, lightening, etc.).

The facory tuning manual lists all the 5-stage info, but there is a more useful article by John Rabson in The Autocar, 18 and 25 July, 1952, with practical experiences recounted and judicious commentary. See it reproduced at http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_performing_midgets.htm. But one must be absolutely sure that the entire engine is strong, since every hp added in one place puts added stress on the weakest link, wherever it may be.

Tom
t lange

Len,
Any way to get specifics of the 104p engine? Like what grind would you call it? Blower boost, compression ratio, rpms, carb size... just to get a feel for it.
For example, full race & 10:1 CR @ 9000 rpm w/ 12 lbs boost on alcohol is not on my radar. I am sure this is not the above case, but it is somewhere between this extreme and box stock.

Thanks!
Jim Northrup

Tom,

Thanks, great answer. It looks as if I am going about this in reverse as I have the 4.3 rear installed and am waiting for my 5 speed tranny. I have the bigger carbs with matching manifold and they will go to Joe Curto for a refurb. Then the head/valve work and Bob's your uncle.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Jim
James Neel TD28423

Intersesting article,,,, there is a hint in there for any one who has an overheating problem,,,, run alchol fuel!!!!!!!!!!

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SPW
Steve Wincze

Jim - but we all end up in the same place! Sounds like you are doing exactly the right thing to get a well-developed but not finicky engine, with good gearing. I know opinions vary, but it will be interesting to see how the combo of a 4.3 and a 5-speed work together. Please let us know.

Tom
t lange

Absolutely

Jim
James Neel TD28423

Speaking of running alcohol AND cooling the engine, how many out there remember EJ Potter, the Michigan Madman?
He is best known for exhibition runs at dragstrips with his Chevy powered motorcycle (sometimes over 170mph and in the 8 second bracket, not much slower than fueled dragsters of that vintage). His Hilborn injected engines ran alcohol. He ran dyno tests and noted the power flattened out after 6000 more than he liked. He tried a mix of 90/10 alcohol/water and noted more power around 7000 and always ran that afterwards. He decided 7000 was enough revs after throwing a rod at 160mph and oiling up his rear tire (rather detrimental to handling & braking). He quit running coolant as it often boiled out onto himself (I had the same results with my watercooled 500 Suzuki at the strip).
When tractor pulling was exotic modified tractors and blown hemis, he blew everyone out of the water, first, with his Allison V12 "Ugly Tractor" and then with his Allison W24, the "Double Ugly." National Champ 2 years in a row, and cleaned up wherever he ran.
He slapped 3 wheels on a cruise missile engine... he rolled it at over 150mph the first public run when the chute failed.

Google "Michigan Madman" for some photos
you might cut & paste below...
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/05/08/ej-potter-michigan-madman/

"When applied at precisely the right time, ignorance is a powerful tool...Usually even surpassing knowledge"-E.J. "Michigan Madman" Potter.
Jim Northrup

This thread was discussed between 08/11/2010 and 16/11/2010

MG TD TF 1500 index

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