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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Almond Green

For those who remember the discussion a few months ago as to whether my car, TD 4618 (Nov '50), was actually almond green, check out the pictures below. The car is now almost completely disassembled. the next step is to replace the bottom main rail, underdoor rail, the hinge pillar and front latch pillar. Also pulled the engine out today. the sample on the right is from a '54TF which I obtained from TCP Global.....now to find a way to match the color.

Bill Reid

Bill,
Is the green on your TD metallic paint?
I seem to remember reading that there were two different colors over the years one being almond green and one almond green metallic, which I think was only used on TFs.
J K Barter

Somewhere I read that the body that was finished in metalics had a solid finish on the wings. Thas apparently was due to the inability to correctly color match metalics.
This could explain the difference in colors.
SANDY

Bill I guess you've seen Chris Couper's site. He has swatches & other info on original colours which you may find useful. Comparison of your pic & his swatches suggest your car is almond green, to my eye at any rate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Bill: What does the inside of the firewall (interior) look like? Also when you took off the rear fenders what color was hidden on the top of the fender where it was under the body?

Also what formula is on the card you are showing?

Is it any of these?

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm
Christopher Couper

That sure looks like the metallic almond green to me. Same as used on some of the Y types. The TF's had a shade darker as you can see from the sample.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Chris, the color under the rear fenders seems to be the same, just smaller areas and more difficult to photograph. The TCP color is color matched from a TF part. They do not provide a formula. The area shown is the largest, cleanest portion I have come across on the car. It really seems to be a metallic color.
Bill Reid

Here is a restored Melbourne car in a very similar colour.

Matthew.

M Magilton

You're probably right Matthew. The Almond Green seemed to be the closest match to the swatches on Chris's site. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I may have to do a bit more research on the TD 'Almond Green' color.

The list of colors I have from a jobber pre 1954 shows MG used Ash Green and Tyrolite Green from their colors. Note all the other colors they list are the names we know and also pretty close to colors we are comfortable with.

The Ash Green is closer to the picture Matthew shows above of the restored car.

As Matthew points out the TF Almond Green is darker.

Christopher Couper

Here is the color breakdown for this company in the early 50's.

Note there is no Almond Green shown

Christopher Couper

Here's another twist....are the wings a different color?

Bill Reid

Bill: Don't know for sure but this is the rumor for the TF's.

"On most TF's, other than the metallic green, it was common for them to be finished as code 6 (cellulose body, synthetic fenders). On metallic green TF's the entire car was done in cellulose while still being labeled as code 6."

Your color difference could be that or it could also be the interaction of the rubber with the paint or perhaps the cowl was repainted at one time.

This is why I asked if you had looked at the fenders where you show the paint still intact.

I would compare a number of places to see if you can see a pattern. I like the top of the rear fenders as you show because its generally not exposed to any light, other materials and it was sealed up pretty well.

BTW this is the place I ultimately decided to match my paint from but it was pretty consistent across unpainted areas of the car. The top of the rear fender just had the most pristine area.
Christopher Couper

Chris, a view of inside the scuttle....there is a metallic sheen here, too, although the paint seems more thin..

Bill Reid

another view...

Bill Reid

Here is a pic showing almond metallic factory paint on a TF (although the outer body had been resprayed BRG).

Maybe what we are calling Almond on the TD's had a different factory name? I once had a Y type which had the same colour as Bill's guards.

Matthew.

M Magilton

Bill: At this point if you like the color why not use a little car cleaner wax on the darker spots of your car and then have it color matched?

The two color formulas that seem to be the most accepted are PPG.

I like the 47705 better. Note that 47705 is really GN37 where I think 44159 is a Datsun color but close.

I am also a bit suspect on these being the same as TD's. You car shows a lighter color. These seem to be more TF colors.

Can you email me your pictures of your original paint?



Christopher Couper

I'm quite interested in this topic because I must choose an Almond Green paint for my 1955 TF. So far in my work on the car of only several days, the original paint appears best on the tops of the glove boxes. A few days ago I polished the passenger glove box and two photos in slightly different light.

Here is photo 1.

Charlie Adams

Here is photo 2. Charlie Adams

Charlie Adams

Charlie: The glove box and dash color are not the car colors. You do have a great sample of the green dash color there.

How about a fender where it was tucked under the body and out of the elements? Or maybe the area between the running board and front wing if not rusted.
Christopher Couper

Chris is correct, the TF's used a sort of aqua green for the dash and upholstery (not the apple green used in TD's).

Matthew.
M Magilton

The PO had stripped the paint from all 4 fenders, but the hood and tub are intact as is the gas tank. Although the hood paint looked dead, I just buffed an area as is shown below, including a good comparison with the glove box color.

I also have the original green interior which has been removed from the car but it remains mostly complete. I must find a way to document what I have...also, I'm thinking of changing the interior color to biscuit.

Should the dash be painted the glovebox color? I suspect my dashboard will polish, and will do so if it would be of interest.

First picture -- hood with buffed area

Charlie Adams

Buffed area with glove box

Charlie Adams

Hood - buffed area only (I had trouble getting this photo)

Charlie Adams

Also, I removed one of the gas tank side covers and the paint there is intact. I'll polish a bit and take a photo of that tomorrow and well as a good example from the tub.

Charlie
Charlie Adams

Charlie: Is your car paint metallic?

Your glovebox and dash should not be.

BTW your paint looks really good on the hood. Too bad they stripped the fenders because it looked like you had a nice survivor car there.
Christopher Couper

I am getting very convinced that these Almond Green colors are what they should be called.

For the TF I think it may be closer to Island Green and for the TD, Ash Green.

See the color chart above.

I am trying to track down where this info for Almond Green came from. Even in "Original MG T Series by Anders Clausager" he doubts the Almond Green colors but did not have much to say what it was, only he did not like it called Almond Green.

If you look at the two paint samples I attached that are supposed to be Almond Green above, they are both muddy looking BRG, not these lighter greens we see on the samples in this thread.

If anyone has any real evidence of a document that states Almond Green for a TD or TF and a code or formula I would love to see it.
Christopher Couper

BTW I started a special page for Bill Reids TD as he takes it apart.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/TD4618/mgtd_gallery_td4618.htm

It has more pictures of his original paint. So far it looks like a light metallic green (Ash Green?) as the original over painted with BRG and then later gray. An they even sprayed the underside of the gray wings with red. Go figure. I guess that was to match the red paint they sprayed the green interior with too.

But there is enough of the light green all over the place to get a good match.

Another interesting tidbit is that his grill seems to have never been the light metallic, but instead non metallic BRG. His interior was originally green.

We are still trying to determine if the wings and valences were metallic or solid. Clausager claimed some cars had metallic bodies and solid wings.
Christopher Couper

The current issue of TTT2 (No 27) shows a pic of an Almond Green TD, (TD 0351), which was restored in the 80's. Whether the then restorer bothered to match the original paint is not stated. The car is apparently presently being restored again in New Zealand after spending some time there in a museum. The article detailing the history of the car is in the above issue. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Charlie, the dash was painted to match the glovebox and upholstery. Also they matched the area below the crash pad if you are thinking of changing to biscuit.

Great photos!

Matthew.
M Magilton

When I took off one of the fuel tank side covers, I found the original felt cushions in place, leading me to believe the cover had not been removed previously. The paint buffed fairly well, although a little of the glue used to keep the felt packing in place has remained.

The metallic in the body paint is very fine. The photos of the fuel tank side which follow are in better condition than on the bonnet which is well faded.

This photo is of the tank side when first exposed -- original felt pieces glued in place.

Charlie Adams

Fuel tank side buffed

Charlie Adams

Fuel tank side with glove box

Charlie Adams

Below crash roll -- shows paint variation between area just below the crash roll and body paint below

Charlie Adams

Dashboard and tub side -- the paint inside the tub is not heavy enough to polish well.

Charlie Adams

Hi Charlie,
I had a Corvair which was very close to the color of your TD. I repainted it that same color and wished I had changed the color to something more attractive. I feel that certain colors make our cars better looking, to the masses, and therefore more valuable. Black and red come to mind, followed closely by dark green, IMHO!
Good Luck
Chuck
cj schmit

Charlie,
Everyone seems to put a buscuit interior- I think green on green is really beautiful on a TF. That was the color of my TF, and I am sticking with it.

Your Almond Green Metallic looks exactly like the original paint on my car. Here is a photo of the back of my spare tire bracket showing the original paint. The fenders are newly painted. They are quite close, I think the original has a tiny bit less blue. The metallic has to be very fine, you have to look twice to be certain it is metallic.

Best,
JKB

J K Barter

another pic of the new paint.

J K Barter

I have a an original ICI Belco colour card for Almond Green, which is a non-metallic colour. I'll attach an image tomorrow when we have daylight and I can do it justice.
Dave H
D Hill

JKB,

My first thought was to have a green interior as well, I agree its a beautiful combination. But Alana, my strong supporter, asked for the biscuit. I will like that as well, knowing it was one of the original choices.

Your painted pieces are glorious! I do like them very much and hope mine turn out so well. The color is very close to the color on my fuel tank.

Would you please share the coding for the almond green paint you used? Is this a one part paint?

Charlie



Charlie Adams

Charlie,
I agree that it will also be beautiful with the bisquit. The color I used was custom mixed by TCP Global ( Tri-City Paint). I sent them a small part from my Tf and they custom mixed it. I believe the color sample that Bill Reid showed next to his TD's green at the beginning of this thread is probably from the formula they came up with from my car. If you contact them at tcpglobal.com and ask for almond green metallic for a 1954 MG Tf they could send a sample or mix it for you. As an alternative you could send them your end panel from the gas tank and have them custom mix it.
I used acrylic lacquer which is a single stage old school paint. I am sure they could mix it in other types of paint for you.
Best,
James
J K Barter

Charlie,
If you do change to biscuit, I have a color sample of all three dash colors made by Rod Brayshaw that Bob Brown shared with me . I can pass it along to you if you would like to have it color matched. Thank you Rod and Bob!
James
J K Barter

Chris, Where is the factory reference to TD Ash Green?

I have not seen any reference before.

Ash Green was an MGA colour GN2
Rod Brayshaw

Almond green is also a Morris Minor colour from the early 1960's, but non metallic and a completely different shade to our Almond. We will need to be aware of this when doing searches.

Great pics Charlie, especially the under-scuttle shot showing the two greens.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Bill,
My car color looks like yours. Thanks very much for starting this thread.

I'm going to get a sample from TPC Global. Next week, I'm also going to take my gas tank to an auto paint supplier which is recommended for their color matching. If I get anywhere, I'll post the results. I think James has obtained an excellent color and hope to do as well.

James,
I'm interested in the Brayshaw dash color samples. Please email me at charlieadamsmg@gmail.com for my address.

Matthew,
Glad you liked the photos, I worked to capture the colors as best I could. Thanks for putting me onto the fact that the interior color varies from the body. I noticed that tonneau bars are the same as the dash.

Charlie
Charlie Adams

Rod: The Ash Green came up when I used the computer to match Bills car pictures to the known BMC samples of the 50's. Its was a perfect match to Ash Green within the tiniest of margins.

So far I am trying to find any reference to MG T colors other than Red, Black, Green, Blue, Ivory, Silver, Bronze.

If you or anyone has an actual Nuffield publication for the TD that states color names or numbers I would like to see it. And all the paint chips I have are from 1959 or later so they are not that reliable too. You cannot tell what year prior to 1959 these colors actually applied and then its MG in general and not the T's.
Christopher Couper

These are colour cards from the original paint manufacturer ICI Belco, used by MG. The dark colour is Almond Green and the light colour is Ash Green (not an official MG colour as far as I know, but as its discussed above, I'v included it. If anyone needs to see any other colours please ask.
Dave H

Dave Hill

Mathew is correct Almond Green is a BMC colour also, but Almond Green metallic was T type.

Ash Green IS an MGA Colour as in the twin cam image.

Chris the factory Brochures list all the colours. My APRIL 1950 TD lists, Black, M.G.Red, Almond Green, Ivory and Clipper Blue.

Rod Brayshaw

Here is a comparison of Almond Greens including the BELCO chip, TPC Global paint mix for JKB, my gas tank side, Bill Reid's TPC chip and scuttle, and a common chip card for contrast.

Dave,
A friend of mine, Butch Smith, is restoring a 1962 MGA and plans to paint it Island Green. I know he would like to see the BELCO card for that color.

Charlie

Charlie Adams

Here's a photo of my almond green Morris Minor.
Regards
Declan

D Burns

Island Green. T series colours were incorporated into BMC colours from 1952.
Dave H

Dave Hill

OK. We really have to get this straightened out. We have about 4 colors now for the 'lighter' of the MG T greens.

To make matters worse Bills car may be two toned and it looks like its original because going through the layers, the first color is on top of black primer. Still trying to determine if the darker of the two colors is solid or metallic.
Christopher Couper

All I can say is that my set of original colour cards show no green metallics. This isn't because the swatch excludes metallics - there are two or three in there, just none in green shade. Its my firm belief that no metallic green TF left Abingdon (and probably no TD either). This isn't to say that some CKD cars weren't painted in a metallic green colour elsewhere.
Exactly what green was offered anyway. The brochures of the time just seem to specify "Green", but I've seen nothing more specific. Yss, plain Ole Green is in my set of colour cards. Its not very different to Almond Green. Woodland Green? No such colour ('54 - '61). There are about 35 colour cards with "Green" in the colour name - but these will include paint colours apprpropriate to Morris, Riley, Wolseley, Austin, etc., as well as M.G.
Red shades? There are just as many.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave,
I believe it has been pretty well established that the only green offered on TFs was metallic, I don't know about TDs. Has anyone ever seen a TF in original green paint that was not metallic?
JKB
J K Barter

This photo may help...its another of the paint on the side of my fuel tank, which again I believe is original paint. This photo was taken through a magnifying glass lit by a florescent tube.

Even when magnified, I do not see metallic flecks in the paint. Granted, my eyes are not what they once were. Even without seeing metal flakes, I believe the paint has a reflective and iridescent quality which which could easily be taken as a metallic.

In comparison, the green paint on my glove box is a solid color.

Next Wednesday, weather permitting, I will take a day trip to visit an auto paint "Color Specialist," one who has a reputation of being very good at paint matching. I'll take the fuel tank, get his opinion, and will post it that evening.

Charlie Adams

Totally with you JKB on metallic green for TF's. I have never found a non metallic factory layer. I believe the reason for the '3' code is that they could not do a metallic enamel for the guards and had to use the same paint all over.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Rod: I looked at my two brochures: 1950 and 1951 and they do indeed have colors. Almond Green with Beige interior is the only green listed.

And what do we make of this painting in the 1951 brochure? All of the other colors are shown too and their colors are pretty close to what we expect. This certainly is no BRG.



Christopher Couper

I seem to remember seeing something years ago, that there were two almond green colors , I think GN 36 and GN 37 -one being metallic........ I may be wrong about the numbers or just wrong!
J K Barter

Its very difficult at times to separate hearsay from fact. I wish that I had more evidence, but I don't - just the period paint swatch. I cannot deny that metallic paint finishes existed at the time in the UK, though its clear they were few and far between - I'm old enough to remember (but not too old to have forgotten!). If Jags and more exotic cars had been painted in metallic colours it would have been more believable, but MGs were built down to a price. The 1950s in England were pretty desparate, as most people were skint. Ok, so maybe for the US market they had to do something special to raise the profile of the TF whose sales were flagging. But if so where is the evidence? It would be in the sales literature. Why are there a number of cars out there that appear to be in original metallic paint? I don't know.
Dave H
Dave Hill

"Why are there a number of cars out there that appear to be in original metallic paint?"
I can suggest a reason.

Matthew.
M Magilton

For those who have Paddy Willmer's book "MG T Series in Detail", there are some nice shots of the restored Dick Jacobs TD in metallic almond, now owned by his daughter Pat Horsley.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew: Is that the green Mk II that is metallic? Because if so now you have introduced another green into the mix. :-(

Any idea if the provenance of the original paint on this car was documented via color pictures before it was restored?
Christopher Couper

Chris I vaguely recall reading a feature in something like MG Enthusiast (or similar) where it was mentioned this is an authentic restoration, but that is about all I can add. I would have thought the colour was about the same as Bill Reid's wings?

Matthew.
M Magilton

I'm still looking for some concrete evidence that metallic almond green was an original paint colour that came out of Abingdon. Its not listed in any of my books or in any official publications as far as I know. At the time surely it would have been a big deal in the UK.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Would not the factory paint layer turning up on MG's in various countries be considered concrete?
Why would it have been a big deal? Metallic had been around for years. In many ways the almond metallic was not a good paint; it was a sod to repair and soon went dull, especially in sunny climates.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew. Its interesting and adds to the picture, but not conclusive. We don't know for certain that these cars weren't painted after leaving Abingdon. At the time metallic paint was rare in the UK and remained so for several years. In my BMC colour swatch there are only about 3 metallichrome paint shades out of a total of over 100 in all. I would like to believe metallic almond green was an original Abingdon colour but so far we only have inconclusive evidence on both sides of the discussion. This leaves it unproven.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave Hill. Can you email me at the address in my header?

Both Dave and Matthew are right and that's what makes this confusing.
Christopher Couper

Dave, I can tell you that my TF that I have had for almost forty years was not restored and was originally green metallic. Although I have now repainted most of it, the original paint remains under the scuttle, the interior of the tub and a few parts that I have not repainted yet. I had the color matched by a paint specialist who was able to match the very fine grain of the metallic pigment. It is a very subtle effect unlike modern metallics. Every other green TF that that I know of had the same color if any of the original paint remained. I don't know if the factory ever described it as almond green metallic, maybe just green was good enough because they were not offering any alternative green colors at that time.Charlie Adam's car is one of the best preserved examples I have seen of the original color. I tend to believe my own eyes more than the colors absence in a color swatch. Maybe by the time that swatch was made they had discontinued the color because it did not hold up well, who knows?
J K Barter

Its very mysterious, I have no answer. My sample of Almond Geen is definitely not metallic. But I know from experience with my own car, which was black with a red interior, how confident I was to be looking at the original materials when I took it apart. You know when you're looking at the real thing. But it would be nice to get a proper explanation. I wonder if US bound vehicles received a different paint job from the home market? Still, you would expect us to have found something written somewhere.
Dave H
Dave Hill

"If you or anyone has an actual Nuffield publication for the TD that states color names or numbers I would like to see it." Chris I have a WSM issue 3 (H&E) 82966 - 1/54 (published in 1954) where the following colours & part numbers in cellulose enamels for the TD are listed on page R.4:

Black S4/145
Autumn Red S4/146
Ivory S4/147
Almond Green S4/148
Sun Bronze S4/149
M.G. Red S4/150 (Note the dots!)
Clipper Blue S4/151
Silver Streak Grey S4/163
Woodland Green S4/164

I tried to copy the pic from TTT2 of the Almond Green TD I mentioned above but was unable to. Perhaps someone with greater computer skills than I may be able to post it. I'm sure the present owner of such an early & low mileage Almond Green TD (TD 0351) would be able to shed some light on this debate, as this car is being disassembled as we speak. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Hi All,

Interesting discussion.

In Western Australia,we have had two(2)very original Almond Green TFs.Both had been repainted except for the bulkhead area-the too hard department in the 1960s!
The fine metallic Almond Green described by Rod and Matt. were in place on this area of the cars.

A typical change in the 60s and 70s was to repaint the TF in solid green.Like so many things,this leads to confusion on what was Factory original as the subsequent owners end up believing that the solid green was the deal.

TFs-Almond Green Metallic originally,not BRG,not Woodland Green or any other Green.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Terrific discussion! I tried to get an analysis of the metallic paint from the local CarQuest store on Saturday. However, the camera device they use requires a larger paint section than I was able to provide (even though it was over a foot square). I wonder if there are devices out there that don"t require such a large sample?
Bill Reid

My WSM Issue 5 gives the same body finishes as listed in the message from Peter Hehir. They were specific to the TD. No mention of finishes for the TF is given. My Belco colour swatch (54 - 61) does not include Woodland Green, Silver Streak Grey, or Sun Bronze, though it has all the others. So they must have been completely deleted as production colours (for any BMC model) by 54. The MG part numbers seem totally unrelated to the paint manufacturers codes, but I guess there is no surprise in that. There is no mention that any of these finishes are metallic, which proves nothing other than the absence of any such reference against a single one does not preclude the others from being so! If that makes sense.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Bill. I'm pretty sure that if you could have a sample analysed it wouldn't tell us much that we don't know. The prime ingredients would be aluminium flakes / powder and phthalocyanine green, plus a little carbon black and titanium dioxide white, and maybe a trace of a yellow pigment. Why? To make the most of the metallic effect the primary colour pigment has to be very transparent - which phthalo green is. It also happens to be the green pigment in almond green (non metallic). The black and white are usually there to lighten or darken it, but in a metallic there would probably be very little. The aluminium would give opacity as well as the metallic effect. The yellow would change the undertone from blue green to more yellow. There are other things to it, but that the basics.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Wow; seems we've entered a minefield here...
Can't add much other than Nuffield did use some metallic colours in their range during MG TD production: My 1953 Wolseley is "Metallichrome Green" which was available next to "Metallichrome Grey" among others. AFAIK there were Riley RM's in Metallichrome Almond Green.. Maybe a Riley expert can chime in on that ? Strange thing is however that "Metallichrome" was patented by ICI in February 1953 ????
http://uk.trademarkdirect.co.uk/ici-metallichrome-714917
Just my 2cts...

Nick (TD3232)
Nick Herwegh

Peter: Thanks for pointing out the part numbers in the WSM. I cannot find these part numbers in the parts book.

Still trying to find out evidence of the years.

So far the brochures I have list Almond for 1950 and 1951 with beige interior and Woodland in 1952 and 1953 with green interior.
Christopher Couper

I was speaking to one of the previous owners of my car today who has a very clear recollection of TD 0257, a metallic Almond Green car that was for sale in Newcastle in 1962. The car was very original however the paintwork was somewhat faded, which he described as a somewhat faded pale green/grey colour. There is absolutely no doubt in his mind that it was a metallic finish. His recollection is very clear as he was about to buy his first car & he examined both TD 5801 & TD 0257 very closely. His choice was 0257 but parental pressure saw him buy 5801 which had just been repainted from the original ivory to red. The TD I mentioned above from TTT2 was repainted in the 60's, it seems in a darker shade of green, which clearly differs from the original metallic finish the PO of my car (from 1962 to 1967), described that he saw on 0257 in 1962. His association with TD's & M.G.'s is a lifetime involvement & his depth of knowledge is unequaled here. If he says the Almond Green was metallic then I'm convinced it was metallic. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Ok, there are so many people saying the same thing that it seems that some Almond Green cars were painted in a metallic finish. The WSM lists the various paint colours for the TD and does not give any indication that Sun Bronze or Silver Streak Grey were metallic either. I do find it strange, but there it is. The use of metallic paint for mainstream cars was unusual In the 1950s in the UK, so it is very odd that we can't find any reference to this use of metallic almond green. Will continue to dig around for an answer. I''m trying to find a way of making good copies of my colour cards for Chris Couper.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave,
Just for the record: both my Wolseley 6/80 workshop manual and the parts list specifically mention the paint as "Metallised green cellulose" or "Metallised grey cellulose".
Apparently these metallichrome colours were only used for the more upmarket Nuffield cars...

Nick (TD3232)
Nick Herwegh

Nick. That could be extremely useful information. Can you complete the picture by giving the years covered by the Manual please . Also what the official paint colours for that model were over the time period in question.
Yes, thats exactly what I was saying that metallics were rare in the UK in the 50s and would only have been used for upmarket models.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave, If you google "The Hillman car Cub of Australia ICI Belco colors" you can view ICI Belco color chips available Hillman and other Roots group autos. Quite a few metal chrome colors available, including greens.




J K Barter

Hope this is readable:

Nick (TD3232)

Nick Herwegh

The colour code of Wolseley metallic green would be GN23 and metallic grey GR16. These were not only used on the 6/80 but also on 4/50 and 4/44 models.

Nick (TD3232)
Nick Herwegh

Thanks, good information. At a first look none of the car manufacturers numbers matches the paint manufacturers numbers that I have. I have only one metallic grey colour which is Metallichrome Regency Grey. I don't have Moonstone Grey. I have several Maroon cards, but the numbers don't match - though one of them coukd be the same colour. As said before I have many green colour cards, but no Metallichrome green.
I looked at Hillman colours and quite a number are the same as for the BMC range - that is the same colour and the same name. As ICI almost certainly made the paints for both, this is to be expected I suppose. Of the remainder some of the colours coukd be the same but with different names, but I suspect the majority are completely different.
Somewhere in ICI there may have once been a Table that linked together their paint colour numbers with those of the car manufacturers, but probably lost forever.
Dave H
Dave Hill

On the same vein Bill and I have been looking at the ICI colors for Rootes cars. Many of the names cross over from MG but not all. There are cards here for many and a list for other. See all four pages.

http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/PaintCodes.htm
Christopher Couper

Update: The fellows I visited today concluded that what appears to be the original almond green paint on my bonnet (TF7309) contains a very fine metallic content.

At Old York Classics of York, PA, I visited with owner Ralph Miller and his two most experienced staff. I have known Ralph since the early 1990s and his work has always exemplified superior craftsmanship. Ralph mostly restores British cars, and his standards are very high--for example, his restorations have been shown at the Amelia Island concours where he has a class win. They spent about 40 minutes with me and evaluated the paint on one bonnet side panel. We removed a latch for inspecting the paint underneath they concluded there is factory original paint on the inside of the panel and it has a fine metallic content.

I also visited Capital Automotive CARS Refinishing Supplies of Thomasville, PA where Rick Billet, "Color Specialist" evaluated the paint. Rick has years of experience, supplies paint to Ralph Miller, and sells Glasurit products among others. Rick said what appears to be the original paint on the panel is unquestionably a metallic having exceptionally fine flakes. He added that it is challenging to recreate the subtle effects of this old metallic paint because the flake size is smaller than what is now generally available.

Rick will develop a paint match for my car. To start the process, he used a paint color assessment hand tool which has a head about 3 inches by 5 inches. He took readings in 6 to 8 areas for comparison. Next week, I'll be returning to see the first sample spray out card. Based on Rick's comments, I'm expecting the process may involve returning several times with additional pieces of the car to evaluate and looking over several spray out cards of test mixes before we are satisfied enough to select the final mix.

Once the final paint mix is selected, I'll post the details and photos of the paint.

Charlie Adams

Charlie: We used to call this sort of finish pearlesence, and not metallic. See what they can do with they type of finish.

It is very difficult to put on uniformly. Mostly we put a base color coat on the pearl was a clear overcoat although it could be done either way.
Christopher Couper

Chris,
I agree with your description of "pearlesence." I think that's what my eyes are looking at. I've got confidence that Rick Billet will somehow come up with a close match.
Charlie
Charlie Adams

Bill Reid found this color list from Riley, another Nuffield car company at the time of the TD/TF.

You will notice a lot of overlap and an interesting observation on Almond Green as it moved through the years.

http://rileyrob.co.uk/specs/rm/rmgen.htm
Christopher Couper

Reactivated thread. The pic below is of a TD that could best be described as a rolling barn find. The present condition suggests it's probably original. This car was at the recent MGRA T Type Tech day & appears to still have the original Almond Green paint albeit heavily faded. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Comment for Charlie Adams on his photos above - the interior paint-work (dash and glove box) on the TF is not really relevant to the discussion on the exterior colors - those components were painted to blend with the interior coverings. Just wanted to make sure no one tried to match those colors for exterior use.

Nice photos of the original interior paint colors though.

Best regards
DLD

TF with paint mixed by TCP Global from sample of my original paint on part that I sent to them.
JB

JK Barter

Your TF looks great JB!
Frank Cronin

JB: Was this your TF's original color and what code is listed on your builders plate?
Christopher Couper

Thanks, Frank.
Chris, Yes this was the original color, but like most it had been overpainted except the areas under the bonnet,wings, and the interior and other hard to reach places that were still the original green. ( HDE43/1714)
JK Barter

Congratulations to Charlie A and JB.

Regarding 'metallic' Almond Green for mgtfs,you have confirmed what we surmised in Australia for many years!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

R GRANTHAM

JK Barker mentioned green upholstery. What colors of green upholstery were available on the TD and TF?

Was there not a TD seat upholstery color very similar to the color of the seat pictured at the top of this web page?

http://www.wmmcollingburn.com/#!interior-colours

I ask because my '49 TC came with that color seat, which I believe is called shires green. But it is hard to find.
Thanks,
Duncan-


D mckellar

Duncan: Here you go.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm#swatches

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/mgtf_finishes.htm#swatches
Christopher Couper

JB: Were there two additional numbers after the HDE43? I assume that your car number is 1714?
Christopher Couper

Seems odd that TC references show Almond Green as a body color on late ('49) TC's and '49-51 TD's listing different paint codes than the TD references use.

http://www.mg-tabc.org/special-files/mg-tc-colours-v2.1.pdf
D mckellar

Chris, no additional numbers. Are there supposed to be?
JK Barter

JK Barter. I have owned my TF HDE43/1721 since 1973. When I acquired it, it had been oversprayed at least twice. I have taken it down to the frame twice and there was evidence of your color green, or very similar, in several places. Of interest, my original interior was also green. The pieces that I salvaged were very very close to the Moss green leather. If my car did in fact have your green color, I personally would not think Moss green would look good. All of my cars have been very dark BRG and that is what I went with. I have a nice contrast with the Moss green interior. An additional question. My fuel pump has always been on the firewall and I like it there. Is yours located there or back by the RR wheel well.
G B McGovern

GB, I have only had my TF since 1977, so you have a few years of ownership on me. My interior is also green with more blue in it than greens generally available these days. I bought my new Moss interior many years ago and am not sure if it is the same color as current Moss products. At any rate, it looks amazingly good with the paint color. My fuel pump has always been in the rear- I don't know when the change officially happened.
JB
JK Barter

The Service Parts List gives the pump change over point as occurring at XPAG31537. By this, JB's chassis mounted pump is correct for engine 31684 and GB's firewall pump is correct for engine 31257.
What puzzles me is that the change over relates to the engine numbers (which were well mixed up between the engine plant and the Abingdon assembly line) and not the chassis numbers. Maybe the fuel pumps were sent with each engine? Surely the attaching point to the chassis required a chassis number change point?

Matthew.
M Magilton

GB, RE Matthew's info-does your chassis have a bracket for the fuel pump in the rear? (I know we are getting off of the original topic)
JB
JK Barter

JK, we are a bit off topic, but to reply. Yes, there is a bracket in the back for a pump. The cut over was supposed to be several hundred cars before ours, but you never know. That may have been the result of whichever wiring harness were still around. By the way, your car looks great.
G B McGovern

the fuel pipe change is in the Service Parts list as TF1500 which has engine number 31536 so I think the recorder got sloppy.
Ray
Ray Lee

Fellas, let me chime in on the color almond green. According to Anders Ditlev Clausager who wrote :Original MG T Series" a restorer's guide to MG TA, TB, TC, TD and TF the TF was available in the following colour schemes throughout the production run from 1953 to 1955 with no production changes:
Black, with red, green or biscuit trim
MG Red with red or biscuit trim
Almond Green (or MG Green) with green or biscuit trim
Ivory, with red or green trim
Birch Grey with red trim
According to Anders some TFs were finiushed in metallic Almond (or MG) green.

MG Green or Almond Green were the same - just different terminalogy.

TFs were finished in a combination of cellulose paint (lacquer) on the body and synthetic (enamel) paint on the wings and valances. The reason for this was probably that synthetic paint had greater resistance to chipping. However, green TFs were finished entirely in cellulose

Anders provided a table of colour code numbers as follows:

Colour ICI code Ditzler code Rinshed-Madson

Almond Green 2007(metallic) 44159 BM 076

He notes that the table does not distinguish between metallic and non-metallic Almond Green.

When the TD was launched it offered Almond Green with some TDs having metallic Almond Green on the body and solid green paint on the wings and valances. In 1952 and 1953 Almond Green was dropped and substituted with Woodland Green.

Bill
Bill Schroeder

TFs,the 'Green' was metallic Almond Green all over the car.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Ray, good answer! I did not think of the pipe.

Matthew.
M Magilton

I am going to go get some popcorn while you all debate the different MG Greens, or lack thereof, again. :-)
Christopher Couper

Chris,

Enjoy the 'movie',however you at least only have to consider one Green for TFs,metallic Almond Green! (lol).

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

From the BBC TV QI programme ...

David Wardell

My car was originally almond green.
Not to offend anyone but i just didn't like the color so I painted it MG Red.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Dan,

I gather your TF was metallic Almond Green?
Agreed,I also am not so keen on this original Green colour.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Dan: That is because MG Red is the only color MG's should be painted. And with Red interiors too. :-)
Christopher Couper

I believe that all MG's were originally red, with red interiors.
JK Barter

This thread was discussed between 16/01/2015 and 20/11/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.