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MG TD TF 1500 - Any 'Lawyers' out there?

Ok..totaly "off" the MG world ..but is this legal?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8019023788&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

As far as "ethical" ..I know the answer!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Obviously the potentian to register a stolen car are there, but it there are also different rules in each state relating to registration of old vehicles.

In my state of WI. I had a 67 BMW " Barn Find". It had a bill of sale but no title. A search of WI DMV did not show any bike with it's registration.

Now is it a stolen motorcycle? Unknown. Person who sold it to me said it was his fathers. He died in the 70's They moved to WI just befor he died (according to the seller). Bike had obviously been in the barn for a number of years. Registration check by the police did not show it as reported stolen. But, would a bike stolen years ago show on police records? The bike is now totally restored and was sold.

In out state, they will retitle old vehicles if you have the registration and a bill of sale. In some states, they may not do this.

I would agree that this has it's legal (and moral) issues.
Bruce Cunha

We have a GT that we bought as a "parts car" ...no title just a "bill of sale" in the form of the ebay papers & reciept for payment. I haven't checked to see what I would have to do in Ohio (car came from PA) to get a title. We are considering restoring it as not in as bad a shape as we thought. Been looking at ebay for a few parts...and was really shocked to see somebody selling this....never even considered changing the vin# as a way to title a car!
David Sheward

When a car is scrapped or exported in the UK the registration papers have to be returned to the registration authority. If these are retained along with the vin plate, whilst the vehicle is destroyed, it opens up a number of questions on the intentions of the owners behaviour. It may be possible to subsequently register another vehicle using this identity, however this would be illegal. Any such actions would be done under the counter.
Henry

Dave,
I have a 1967 BGT that we were going to restore but the damage to the front was too much. I am going to send the car to the crusher soon. I have been giving away part for postage so if you are interested in anything let me know. It is without drive train and some other parts now. I also have the title for the car. Everything is available for postage only.

John
John Progess

In Texas, the crusher will not accept a complete car body without paperwork and VIN tags. I know this, because I had a hell of a time disposing of my old car body after a reshell. I eventually had to cut the old MGB body into quarters and take each quarter to the metal recycling yard (in my 69 VW bus).

On the first trip in the bus, they told me to drive the bus right up to the crusher, and bring the paperwork back to the office. I had to convince them that I wanted to keep the bus, and just dispose of the contents.
Mark B.

Here is something that I posted on the Spridget website.

I have a 72 midget that I may or may not work with. Very rusty & will cost too much to re-shell with parts from Moss or VB.
I have a 71 rust free shell, nothing else. It is just metal. Who's to say I cannot weld on new arches and add all the bits from the 72 and still call it my 1972 Midget?

Last year. I found a 1969 AH sprite in some ladies yard. It was her ex son- in-law's car and sitting since 1979. Low mileage and complete but most of it was rotten beyond repair. It folded in half when I got it up on the lift
I kept every nut & bolt, cut the shell up & disposed of it at the curb, no questions asked. I have some reciepts but no title. Engine with ID plate. Tranny, Rear and all body tags. Even all of the books came in the glove box with the metal tag pulled out of the book for the dealer to swipe at service time.
Who's to say I cannot get a title, use all these bits on the 1971 shell (both SWA) and drive it as a 1969 sprite.

In both cases (71 to 72) or (71 to 69) is this not legal? It's only metal swapping.

There are no other numbers stamped into the sheet metal or frames on Spridgets correct?

Is the legality any different if I were to systematically replace all metal from Moss or VB until is was all new? It's only metal swapping right!

What percentage of metal could be replaced from another car that would cause questions to arrise?

Any thoughts?

Don't worry the TD is exempt from this type of tomfoolery. It stays all original like the day she was made.
V.W. Piņa

I don't know how "ethical" it is and the legality probably varies from state to state, but there are MANY Model A Fords, and other brands, that are a composite of several cars using a found title. In fact there is a business that advertises the sale and "service" of finding titles.
Dallas Congleton

It becomes more of an issue when someone tries to pass something off as something it is not. I mean cars with a notable history, low production run etc. Then there is a clear case of frauduant intent. There have been numerous cases of this.
In the UK there is a regulation that a car can retain its original registration if during the course of restoration its retains at least 80% of its major components, ie body, engine, transmission, axle etc. But who knows what goes on behind locked garage doors, and how much of the original car is thrown away. And then the system relies I believe on the owners declaration!
Henry

Mark B,

You made my day with the VW story...

dave
Dave Braun

Not that I think it is ethical especially if you are trying to resell and don't disclose it. I was just curious where is the line drawn on "replacing" metal in a car. What allowable percentage is the cut off for determining if it is the same car with every other nut & bolt being the from the titled car?
V.W. Piņa

John,
Thanks for the offer..but ours is an Opel GT!
I can understand taking parts from 2/3 other cars to make one, but the vin # would be from "one" of those cars. This guy is selling a title and vin # plate off a car that is long gone. I can't think of any use for this "other" than to regester a car with a known questionable background or to avoid a title search...as in stolen or salvaged.
Guess I will find out what Ohio/PA law is for "lost title" as there is no way I will start fixing the car until I have ownership papers in hand...but this is definetly not an option I would consider.
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David;;
Check out TITLES UNLIMITED via google.They offer a solution to lost or non existant titles. Here in Florida they used to register cars using the engine number then with the advent of titles that became the registered number. It has created a major problem at times.
Sandy Sanders
Sandy Sanders

In 1982 I found a nice Gordon Keeble that a Lady wanted to sell but had no title nor other paper work. Seems her son Shipped the car to Her but never returned to claim it and to that day She still did not know where He was. So I run off to the MIchigan Sec of State to find out and they tell me all I need is an affadavit sigened by a Police Officer that verfies the car numbers that I want to register. Went to Bank and got cash money (that's what She wanted). Took about four hours, arrived back at the location and car was gone!! Seems somebody else had found out the same things and came back before me though She never told me somebody else was in interested. Greg & Grimm
G.J. Cenzer

Ok...whats a Gordon Keeble (other then some cookies in my cupboard) and what does it look like?
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon-Keeble
Made by John Gordon and Jim Keeble. American 300bhp Chevy engine with European Bertone styling and space frame chassis. Glassfibre sports saloon body, similar to later Alvis. Less than 100 made.
Henry

For sale: original ax that George Washington used. The head has been replaced once, and the handle twice.
Peter Thiel

This thread was discussed between 04/12/2005 and 19/12/2005

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