MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Are the MG gods smiling?

Well, this was to be the week for my first run of the TD's engine after a 30 year nap. As usual with this hobby, some things went better than expected and some went worse.

Let me back up a bit: I finished the interior earlier this week, so now the car is complete except for the front wings, bonnet, running boards and front splash pan. I decided to wait on installing the front end parts until I was sure the engine was ready for driving.

I created a checklist to prepare for first start. Thursday evening I started with the electrical system. Since the front lights are not on the car, I taped the ends of all of the wires to insulate them. I placed the battery in the battery box and connected the chassis ground to the positive terminal. Then I used a 5 amp fuse to connect the negative terminal to the negative cable. The fuse held, not even a spark from connecting the cable, so far -so good! Next I turned on the ignition key, (tick, tick, tick) the fuel pump began it’s frantic song. I checked the instrument panel and saw a faint glow from the low fuel light. The 5 amp fuse held. Now I was ready for the real tests, the turn signals and brake lights. Usually this wouldn’t be a big deal, but I added a brake relay, halogen tail lamps, a third brake light and a fuse harness for all of the circuits in the car. To prepare, I removed the 5 amp fuse I used as a safety earlier, and removed the fuel pump fuse (I don‘t want to burn up that eager little guy.) I turned the light switch to “S” and both tail lights lit! I turned the dash light rheostat and the dash lights lit. Wow, this little car is starting to show signs of life. Next I pulled the turn signal switch to the right, …..and…..nothing! So, I pulled it left….and….nothing! I figured it might be the $5 thermal flasher I bought at Pepboys. On to the brakes, I pushed the pedal….and nothing! Hmmm. Now I know what they mean by “prince of darkness!” I grabbed the voltmeter and headed for the dreaded area under the dash. I started at my aftermarket fuse panel, and found no voltage on any of the light related circuits. I traced the wires back to the MG fuse block and found no voltage across the 35 amp fuse! I pulled the fuse and tested it. It was fine. I looked at the contacts on the block and noticed the surfaces had a dark coating on the surface where the fuse touches the posts. I filed the surface and replaced the fuse, then voila…I had brake lights and turn signals! (Also, the Pepboys flasher works fine.) Back on track, I tested the horns and wipers. Feeling good about defeating the prince of darkness, I decide to wait until Friday to push my luck.

My Friday checklist included; setting the carbs, filling the cooling system, timing the distributor, priming the oil pump, and testing the fuel system. For the carbs, I removed the air-cleaner and it’s manifold. I set the mixture on the front carb then lifted the piston. I released it and it landed with a nice thud. When I tried the same on the rear, it would hang at about 1/32. After several attempts, I got the jet centered and the piston landed with the same satisfying sound. After synchronizing the throttles I marked carburetors off the list.

Next on the list was the cooling system. I mixed a gallon of antifreeze with a gallon of distilled water and poured the first jug into the radiator. I looked under the car…no leaks! I added another half gallon and checked all of the hoses, drains and all around the radiator. Still no leaks! Satisfied, I checked cooling system off the list.

Next up, I timed the distributor per the instructions in the workshop manual. I set the point gap and lubed the cam and oiled the shaft. I’m still not sure whether the dizzy is a high lift or symmetric. The car is a later 53, but the dizzy suffix is “A”. I need to research this a little more. While I was in the area I lubed the generator and added grease to the tach drive.

Feeling good with my progress so far, I decided to move on to the oil pump. I poured 5 quarts of non-detergent 30wt oil across the valve train, letting it disappear down into the sump. I reserved the last half quart for possibly pumping into the galleries if needed. I followed the workshop manual and removed the priming plug from the oil pump. I removed the sparkplugs and pulled the starter. I used 15 seconds on and 15 seconds off to keep the starter from overheating. After several minutes with no oil visible in the priming plug hole, I decided to pour oil into the hole. It only took about 1 ounce. I pulled the starter and air bubbles percolated from the hole. I kept the hole topped up, after a couple of minutes more, oil gushed from the hole. I replaced the priming plug, pulled the starter, and watched the gauge. After about 7 seconds, the needle jumped to 40 psi! After another 2-3 seconds oil began to squirt and drip from the rockers! Success…I checked oil pump off the list.
I started to get excited as all I had left to do was check the fuel system for leaks and then light the fuse! I had about a gallon of gas in my lawn mowing can. I poured it into the tank. I laid down on the garage floor and look at the bottom of the tank. Nice and dry! While I was on the floor, I noticed a small wet spot under the radiator. I had accidentally missed the filler neck with a small amount during the fill, so I figured it finally reached the floor. No big deal, right? Back to the gas. I figured I had better get more than a gallon in the tank before I try and start the engine. Not knowing how much is needed to keep the pick-up wet and wanting to be able to run the engine at 2500 for 20 minutes to brake in the cam, I grabbed a six gallon can and headed to the gas station. (You really feel the high gas prices when you fill a gas can and the total is close to $15.00!) I decided to add the whole six gallons to the tank to test the sender. (It works.) I put the fuel pump fuse back in place and hit the key. Tick,Tick,Tick,….Tick……….Tick……Leak! The hose to the front carb was leaking I turned the key off and found the fitting wasn’t completely seated. I tightened the fitting again and hit the key. Tick…Tick…….Tick……….Tick..Leak! This time it was the front carb where the banjo bolt threads into the float bowl lid. It looked like it was sweating gas. I tried to tighten the banjo bolt and it still leaked. I took the banjo bolt out and checked the washer. It was OK. I decide to smear some Gasoila on the gasket and reassembled the connection. It still leaked! I figured the surface must not be true, so I took the float bowl lid off to inspect. As I stood over the front carb looking down, I noticed a growing puddle forming on the floor. I moved around to the front of the car and the front cross member was wet! I checked the backside of the radiator and it was wet! From what appears to be several places the radiator is leaking out of the core. Damn! I had this radiator boiled out and tested. The guy at the shop assured me, “It’s in great shape!” So much for his professional opinion. I felt like a deflated baloon. I just stood there staring at the coolant dripping into a catch pan. Damn. I drained the remaining coolant from the radiator and block. At least I didn’t add Water Wetter to the coolant.

I decided to go back and see what was causing the fuel leak. I held the bowl lid up to look at the banjo washer surface and noticed a small black line from the center to the top edge. A CRACK! Damn again! What the heck is going on here, does this car want to sleep another 30 years? Knowing I need to get a new cap, I decide to see if I could make this one useable until I find one. I trued the washer surface with a wide file, then mixed up a small batch of JB weld. I applied a coating over the area of the crack and reassembled the banjo connection while the JB weld was still wet. I figured the bolt might stretch the crack open, I wanted this to happen before the epoxy set. I guess I’ll start watching ebay for a decent H2 for parts.

So, here I am on Saturday morning trying to regroup with the phone book open to “Radiators-Automotive-Sales & Service.” I found 2 radiator shops that re-core radiators. I think I will visit one of them later this morning. After my experience with the other radiator shop, I’m not in a trusting mood. I also noticed that I can get a Moss reproduction on sale for less than $400 from lbcarco. I really don’t want to spend that kind of money, but if the fit is good it might be the way to go. At least I would know I have a new radiator.

So to answer the question, It looks like the MG gods are not smiling on me this week.

Evan Ford - TD 27621

Evan,
A guy as thorough as you is going to win eventually. Keep up the excellent work. By the way my radiator shop said the same thing and they were right. They even commented that they would look forward to working on the old stock radiator any time because of the good materials that were used back in the 50s. Give the new shop a chance, particularly if you see a guy about 60+ years old in the back room making the repairs. At my shop he had the young guy gathered around to show them how these old radiators were fabricated. Good luck.

Safety Fast!
Jim Haskins
1953 MG TS
J. M. Haskins

Evan... you just took me back a year... how exciting ... I did just about everything you did (getting it ready to start anyway)...and your comment about the dash lights.... ahhhhhhhh. I put in the battery for the first time and walked to the dash and there was the little dash light shining across the gauges... oooooooooooo. And as things come on the car takes on a whole different feel... your right... it "comes alive".
Damn...it was so exciting... Now i want another barn find........
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Oh.... i did have two fire extinquishers at the ready when i started hooking things up.... and the day i started it.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon,

Sounds like there's a story there...care to share???

Cheers - Dennis
Dennis Rainey

No... it was my extreme paranoia (just because your paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't following you!!!!!) I was fine till i hooked up the battery...then i started thinking of the car as a virtual time bomb... or fire hazard. I would pull the battery cable every time i left the barn.... Just pictured in the dead of night some little "Lucas" spark happening under the dash...then of course it would spread to the barn (a friends) and then i would have a burned out hulk for sale on ebay.... It took weeks before i left it all hooked up (forgot one night)... After driving awhile i was fine....

gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon -

I hope you have a fire extinguisher in your car at all times when on the road - good insurance.

Jan
Janson Hurd

Always... and a cel phone and my CAA card....!!!!!
gordon lawson

Evan,
Takes me back as well, (except I got the "SU Eye Wash") Anybody else out there listing???? If your LBC has been in hibernation open the bonnet and "watch" the carbs whilst "hearing" the "tick tick"!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Great story. I can't wait until you have the car completely ready to start. When you do, and have success, I'm going to clip and save this thread for my own starting checklist.

Dave
D. A. Braun

Thanks guys!

I'm getting closer to start up. I took the radiator to a different shop yesterday. The shop owner looked it over and said he can definitely preserve the exact dimensions of the radiator. He won't be able to give me the estimate until he gets a price on the new core tomorrow.

On the carb front, the JB weld stopped the leak on the float bowl. I still plan to replace the lid, but this will buy me some time.

Dave, I forgot to mention polarizing the generator on the checklist.

Gordon and Janson, you reminded me to mount my fire extinguisher in the car. Thx. I have two in the garage, but I forgot I bought one for the TD. I'll mount it today!

I'll keep you posted on the startup....

Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

Quick update:

I got the radiator recored. I pick it up tomorrow afternoon. If the gods are smiling, the car might run in the hours that follow.

Get the OSH chilled. It might be time to raise a glass soon...

Evan Ford - TD 27621

Crossing my fingers!
D. A. Braun

I will keep my ear to the "south-west" today.... and have an ale at the ready....
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Evan,
Looks like you are going to get on the road before me this year! Get out this way the Ale is chillin'!
Don't think I will make Brits @ Easton, (or should I say "Brits NOT @ Easton"..show moved to Dublin), this year...(head is back...still waiting for re-worked cam to get here)
Weather looks great for this weekend!
Aggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh...all 3 "toys" still in the shop! Another weekend wasted "cornering robustly" on the Ranch King!
Cheers,
David ...uh...46" cut, again!
David Sheward

Thay are not smilin' on ME. The show at Chatteau Elan is this Saturday and I was hell-bent on getting the car running to drive it there but the alternator 'broke' (in a minor way that Jerry will easily fix - in two weeks) and I am already well on the way to converting to negative ground - transistorized fuel pumps and electronic controlled cooling fan, so I CAN'T put the generator back in and reverse the process. Oh, well, I can take pictures with me.

John
John Redman

Evan, good luck! Suggestion: my old-timer radiator guy recored my rad, and "exactly" resoldered all the brakets in place. I re-assembled, refilled, and fitted everything but the bonnet and rad cap. The "exactly" soldered brackets were all off by 1/4-1/2 inch, the bonnet sides had diagonal gaps and the cap wouldn't tighten (the top mounts were soldered too high on the tank). Drained, back apart, remove and resolder/bend/swear, etc. for quite some time, and all was well. So I would definitely refit the shell, cap, and bonnet before you install hoses, lower mounting nuts (so fun!), etc. George
George Butz

Evan
Congratulations on getting ready to fire up. If you are like me, I couldn’t wait to hear the engine purr. One note on the radiator leak, I had mine re-cored and the guy that did mine said that the worst thing you could to a radiator is store it dry. This is exactly what I had just done. And so it leaked when tested. At least you are ready to enter spring and summer driving you MG. Good luck. John
John C. Hambleton III

Still in a holding pattern here. The radiator shop didn't receive the new core until yesterday morning. It will be ready late today. If all goes well, I might get it started tonight.

George and John,

Thanks for the advice. I will check the fit carefully, and I hope to not store it empty ever again!
Evan Ford - TD 27621

The MG gods are SMILING!

After waiting an extra day for the radiator shop to finish my recore, I picked up the radiator at 4:30pm yesterday. The paint was still tacky, but the guy did what looks to be a good job. The core looks identical to the old one, with three rows of tubes. The fins include louvers to increase heat transfer. Anxious to get this thing on the car, I rushed home while getting high on radiator paint fumes.

About a mile from home I passed a red chrome bumper MGB. Could this be a good omen?

After I got home, I mounted the headlight tie bracket, drain petcock, temperature sender fitting, and chrome shroud. My brother held the radiator while I put the rubber mounts on the bottom. Then we fought to get the radiator hoses back into position. With the stays bolted back to the radiator, I tightened all of the hose clamps and filled the cooling system with the 50/50 antifreeze mixture I saved from the earlier attempt. No Leaks! Whew...

Now all that was left was to start it up! After double/triple checking everything we could think of, I pulled the starter with the ignition off to build oil pressure. After a couple of turns the gauge read 50 PSI. I turned the ignition on. The fuel pump ticked once or twice. I pulled the starter and.... nothing! Great, I thought, this little car isn't going to come back without a fight. After a couple of attempts we could smell gasoline fumes being carried into the garage on the breeze. We knew we were getting fuel! I pulled out a spare spark plug and connected it to the #1 wire and grounded the plug to the chassis. With the ignition on, I pulled the starter. No spark. I checked the coil for voltage and got 12.56volts. Hmmm. All of the ignition parts are brand new, so we figured we got a bad piece somewhere in the system. We swapped each piece, one at a time, until we had changed everything but the condenser and points. No spark. We turned the engine with the starting handle to open the points. I checked for continuity between the distributor coil terminal and ground, and it was shorted! Even with the points open, the coil was staying hot. I looked closely at the condenser spade plug. The part that is crimped to the wire was just the right shape to touch the body of the distributor over the insulator. I bent it away from the body and the short was gone. I was happy we solved the problem, but mad I swapped parts before I tested the system. Oh well.

Now all that was left was to start it up! (Again!) I moved back around to the carb side of the car. I had my screwdriver ready to set the idle up above 2500 RPMs, to break in the cam. I turned on the ignition switch, reached down an pulled the starter knob, and... vroom! WOW! The engine started immediately, and ran perfectly smooth. Just ticking away. I was dumbfounded! I just stood there frozen for a few seconds, not believing what I was seeing/hearing. With a huge grin on my face I set the idle up and we stood there watching the engine (and gauges) for 20+ minutes. I walked around the back of the car at one point and looked down the street. A red rubber bumper MGB drove past. The MG gods are truly smiling....

Now I have the carbs set and the iginition timed at 30* @ 3000RPMs. The car sounds great. I’m going to double check my settings with a dwell meter and color tune today. Then I'll mount the fenders and hood and give it a proper road test! I think I have a glitch in the voltage regulator too. I'm not getting a warning lamp ever, and the ammeter never moves positive. Let the fun begin!

Thanks to all of you for your support and knowledge! I can't imagine where this car would be without all of the great advice from this board.

Safety Fast!
Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

It Lives!

Congratulations. I'll tip one (I only get two a day) for you tonight!

Warmly
Dave
D. A. Braun

Evan, well done!
Congratulations,
Dennis
D F Sexton

Evan,
Congrats from east of "cowtown"!
Ahhhh that first purrr from an LBC comming to life after a long hibernation!
I think I can safely say we will all be tipping an OSH to your success!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

OK, I'll bite - what's an OSH? In this part of the country it stands for Orchard Supply Hardware.
R. Challberg

Way to go Evan...congrats..!!!!!


http://www.molson.com/
gordon lawson - TD 27667

"what's an OSH?"
Try this link!
http://www.v8register.net/subpages/speckledhenbanner.htm
David Sheward

Thanks guys!

The first test ride is still to come. I spent way too much time installing the hood yesterday. If I get the front fenders on this weekend, I might take it around the block. I can't go to far until I get the generator/voltage regulator fixed.

I love to hear the engine run! I'm creating a quite the oil puddle under the rear main seal from starting and stopping the engine so much! It doesn't take long dropping a teaspoon each time I shut it off. The territory has been marked.

Safety Fast!
Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

Great going Evan! Have no fear She will serve you well!
I will tip 3 LAPHROAIG's to you tonite, one for your success, one for TD27621, and one for me & Grimm
G.J. Cenzer

This thread was discussed between 30/04/2005 and 07/05/2005

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.