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MG TD TF 1500 - Arnolt MG

Does anyone keep a register of these cars ?.

How many survive today ?.

Any for sale at the moment ?.

Tony Slattery
The Classic Workshop
Black Mountain
Australia
A L SLATTERY

Tony contact me off the bbs.
laf48@aol.com
Len Fanelli

I have the Register and I restored one and still have it.
about 6o% survived.
Terry in Oakland, CA
Terry Sanders

I may know of one with a non-British engine for sale.
Steve S

Thanks one and all.

The one with a non-British engine does not faze me - I have a spare XPAG.

I can be reached at :- racedesign(at)optusnet.com.au

Cheers & Thank You

Tony
A L SLATTERY

Steve - is that the Las Vegas V-8 car? Drop me a note off-line. Thanks.

Tony - Based on Terry Sander's useful list, I seem to remember that there are about 50 coupes and 27 roadsters known now, of the 67 coupes and 36 roadsters made. The survivor number includes cars scrapped or in pieces.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tony, would you like a list of all the ones I know of? there is one in Oz that I doubt will get restored.
Terry
Terry Sanders

Tony, Yes there is a register held but may be a couple of years old now. Terry Sanders can email you a copy.

A quick tally, 22 Convertibles and 42 Coupes have been identified with owners.



Rod Brayshaw

Terry, I have some updates to your original list from some known recent discoveries.
Rod Brayshaw

The list I have (updated 3/27/13) shows 76 or 77 cars known or known to have been scrapped (the number of one car is not known).

Rod - I would be grateful for your info, to add to my TAterry list. Many thanks.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom I should send my list to Terry first as you state more cars than I have. His list should be the master.
Rod Brayshaw

Mine is dated 3/27/13. Of course, send to Terry first, and I'll get an up-dated copy from him. I was not sure he was maintaining it any longer.

Tom
t lange

No, it isn't a Vegas car, it's here in So Cal.

Tony, I've sent an email.
Steve S

Cheap cars. December 1955 R&T, page 45. Bud

Bud Krueger

And to think that Dad had about 4 of them used, in the day for sale in his Automobile business. As well as just about any other car that you can think of!
Len Fanelli

Thanks again to everyone who responded, both on this BBS and via email.

I certainly have a lot to learn about these special MG's and I am keen to get at least one of the "available" cars soon.

Cheers

Tony Slattery
Australia
A L SLATTERY

Does anyone here have a 1500 Arnolt? Terry and I are trying to figure out if they are XPEG engines or just rebored XPAG's.
Christopher Couper

From my research over the years indicated that the USA dealers often fitted 1500 XPEG engines to get sales, they also fitted Shorrock superchargers. My understanding is that all left Bertone with the TD engine allocated by M.G.

The Last Arnolt on the list is TD28025 EXLNA this chassis left the MG factory on the 28th may 1953 with TD2 engine XPAG/TD2/28580.
Rod Brayshaw

Ray - the production records also show that 28026 was the last of 4 sequential chassis/only cars made that day; could it also be an Arnolt? In other instances where one car in the sequential group of chassis/only cars is an Arnolt, they all are. I'm guessing...

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

I have gone through the Production Records and find all XPAG numbers for chassis/only cars sold to Arnolt. I've heard that one could request an up-graded XPEG as an option in the later days, but have no proof.

The first XPEG engine was installed on July 22, 1954, almost 14 months after the last TD chassis was dispatched to Bertone. How long did it take to make an Arnolt body, trim and finish it up? I assume they were slow sellers in the US, so the increased engine size would be a good selling point.

The VIN tag would probably be altered or a new one stamped to show an XPEG engine.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom, The last Arnolt on the list I was referring to was Terry's register list not a factory list but 28025 was Arnolt Convertible #4435. Chassis #28124 was Arnolt Coupe #4367. these add up 35 + 67 to = 102. 28026 could have also gone to Bertone. 102 seems to be the total production number from many commentators.

Jarl deBoer once gave me my Arnolt's shipping date, I wonder if he has them all? or has passed them on to someone? If XPEG were fitted to some cars he should know.

My Arnolt is the 9th Convertible made, car 240, #4409, so this would not be an indication of later production but its Chassis was produced on the 24th Dec 1952 and arrived in Chicago on board the SS KOLBRYN on August 4th 1953. It was delivered to E.H. Bolt on January 21st 1954.
Rod Brayshaw

Well the specs are exactly the same as the 1500cc TF so perhaps they bought some extra engines and swapped them out in order to sell them in 1955 and beyond.



Christopher Couper

Mr Couper, I would love to see the rest of that Arnolt specification/information ?.

What did they do for a fuel tank - is it a modified TD tank or custom jobbie ?.

Rod, are you by any chance taking the Arnolt MG to Greymouth later this month ?.
A L SLATTERY

Tony, Sadly no, my Arnolt has yet to be restored but its next in line. You may visit us if you want to see the car. It's taken 20 years to gather the missing parts, but I am only now in need of a fuel gauge, and lots of hours.

The fuel tank is unique to the car as is the radiator shell.

A TD radiator is used, TD tail lamps and the TD dash.

Apart from the TD rolling chassis and steering, not much else is TD.

I have an original news release that introduced the Arnolt to the press for the International Motor Sports Show held in the Grand Central Palace in New York City, April 4th to 12th 1953. This document indicates the engine as 1-1/4 litre, so does the Arnolt Brochure dated 10-1-54, and the Arnolt Soundings Volume 8 Number 1 January 1953.

I also have an original copy of the page you have shown Chris, unfortunately It is not dated but as you point out the 1500cc engine was an option at extra cost, so it would seem that Arnolt fitted the 1500cc engines in the USA. The other side also indicates 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 litre engines

I also have an Arnolt Bulletin from Arnolt Wholesale dated April 15, 1955 indicating a price reduction on both Convertibles and Coupes.

We know they were slow to sell based on pricing so any inducement to sell would have been made. A dealer discount only after sales, of $500.00 was also available in 1955.
Rod Brayshaw

All the stuff I have on Arnolts can be found here and on the brochures and advertisements pages too.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_variants.htm#arnolt
I think I had a 1955 magazine advert for the 1500 engine Arnolt but cannot find it right now.

Christopher Couper

From this image of a 1500cc car it appears that they used the xpeg engine. Note the use of the TD air cleaner and the special hose to go to the TF valve cover.

Christopher Couper

Rod Brayshaw

Jarl deBoer Wow, now there is a name from my past. He build my TD engine back in the 80,s. Used to see him race his Siata at sears point. Anyone know if he is still around?
Bruce Cunha

I believe he is, but elderly; his son, John, does most of the wheeling and dealing of Siata's and Abarth's.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Chris, your Arnolt image shown of the engine bay with the 1500 engine, look at enlargement of the chassis plate, you will observe the engine number is the TD factory 1250, stamped by Bertone. The X at the end of the number 26611 could be a signal for an engine change but would you not have to assume that it left Bertone with the TD engine as stamped? and the 1500 fitted subsequently in the USA?


Rod Brayshaw

Here is another chassis plate with a X an early car

Rod Brayshaw

Rod: I agree. Terry Sanders stated he thought some of the later cars that sat around had to have their engines replaced with 1500cc ones (XPEG?) because they were up against the XK120's and nobody would buy a 1250cc engine at that point.

I was hoping we could find one of these cars so we could actually check the numbers of the block. I suspect ALL chassis the left MG for Arnolt were indeed XPAG's.

Of course nothing stopped anyone from getting an XPEG engine after purchase and swapping it in. They were all over the place in the 60's in junk yards etc. I am kind of surprised more TD's don't have these but I kind of think by the mid to late 60's nobody really wanted T series MG's except collectors that gravitated to the TC.
Christopher Couper

The text below is from an advert for the Arnolt Coupe that S H Arnolt's family had in a shed until very recently and auctioned on Ebay by a Mr Hess.

The title from Indiana reads: Owner: Hoosier International Corp. Box 540 Warsaw IND, Title Number A871198, ID Number 299, Model No B. Year 57, Make: MG, Type 2H, Date of Purchase 12/12/57, Weight 2103, H.P or Cap 18.0.

02384 original miles, 2 owners.

Arnolt's ran to 319 so this car at 299 is not the last so 1958 is a possibility for some last sales.
Rod Brayshaw

Has anyone removed and engine from an Arnolt-MG ?.

Do you remove the engine & transmission together or separately ?.

Would the XPEG engines fit the TD bell housing/ clutch cover, or did that need an upgrade as well ?.

Tony
A L SLATTERY

I find it hard to believe that Arnolt car nbr 261 came with an XPEG, or for that matter was ANY Arnolt fitted with an XPEG. Its possible that it was later added. Because a TF valve cover is fitted, doesn't mean its an XPEG.

What's more, the engine in the picture shows H2 carbs, whereas ALL TFs were fitted with H4 carbs

The only true indication it has an XPEG, is by the "W in the Diamond" (see below) characteristic of the Wolsley-origin, TF1500 XPEG engine.

The XPEG engine didn't become available 'till at least 1½ years after the last Arnolt was produced.

For those interested, Neil Cairns has a very comprehensive article on the entire XPAG/XPEC/XPAW, etc engines. See http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/enginehist.pdf


Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.



Gord Clark

Gord,
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the rolling chassis bound for Bertone in Italy ever had XPEG's fitted. Almost certainly they would have had XPAG's.

Now once there was a stockpile of completed cars in Chicago that were not selling - upgrading to a "world record setting" 1500cc engine may have helped sell a few.

Certainly some of the sales material list the 1250cc engine as standard, but a 1500cc was an available option.

As the mid-west agent for M.G., I'm sure Wacky Arnolt could source 1500cc in crates direct from Abingdon.

Tony
A L SLATTERY

The Production Records show that every chassis-only TD left the factory with an XPAG engine, and the Arnolt Basic Specifications sheet above shows (if you can read it...) that the XPEG was available as "Optional equipment at extra cost." It's pretty clear that Arnolt shoveled XPEG engines into cars he was having trouble selling, in order to make them more powerful, more attractive and more up-to-date.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Rod sent me a bunch of pictures from SH Arnolts own personal car that was auctioned off last year. I made a special page for them.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/Arnolt_299/Thumbnails/mgtd_gallery_arnolt_299.htm
Christopher Couper

Does anyone reading this BBS live in El Paso ?.

I have heard a rumour there may be an Arnolt-MG for sale there, but need a local to follow up and make the connection with the seller ?.

I can be reached directly at :- racedesign(at)optusnet.com.au


Tony Slattery
Australia
A L SLATTERY

Well I sure missed this play.

I have owned Arnolt Coupe 290 since 1988. Through Terry I am in the Register, and have been for years, but I had no idea that there was an active thread on Arnolts. Thanks Dave Clark.

Finally I am working on the Arnolt. Am currently replacing the rust in the car, A-pillars, floors and rocker panels for starters. I curse "Guisiepe" and "Luigie" daily, the guys who built my car.

I may need photos from existing cars to stay on track. By the same token, if I can assist any of you I would be happy to try.

Octagonally,

Sherwood Parker
S Parker

Sherwood, some years ago at least 16 I was fortunate to get some prints from Peter Welch of Canada showing details of his Convertible's body rebuild. I can scan these as they would I am sure assist you.

I would hope Peter would not mind me copying them.
ROD BRAYSHAW

Ray - I would also be grateful for those convertible prints, if there is no problem. Thanks very much.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Rod,

I would appreciate a scan of those plans.

Sherwood
S Parker

Is anyone out there? this thread was getting good and them just quit.

Thanks,

Sherwood
S Parker

I will try and scan the images soon. Just been busy.
Rod Brayshaw

Rod,

I understand being busy.

Just don't forget us.

Thanks,

Sherwood
S Parker

I'll add a tid bit tomorrow...A member in our club has a friend who worked for Wacko in Chicago. He gave me a pin that he said they passed out to customers at the dealership. Maybe he can shed some light on the questions.
MG LaVerne

Not forgotten. Just have to finish a J2 body tub first.

The only image I have scaned some years ago. It does show correct headlamps, park lamps, correct profile bumper and overiders.

Allot of the images you can find available have wrong lamps and midget or MGB bumpers and overiders etc.

Rod Brayshaw

Rod Brayshaw - would you kindly contact me off-line? Many thanks.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

I'm a bit late but I received this information this morning.

Phil Nesius worked for Arnolt at his Chicago dealership. He stated without reservation that no Arnolt arrived at the dealership with an XPEG. XPAG only. To his knowledge no XPEG exchanges were made before sale....however he admitted that they sat for years at the dealership and some deals may have been made that he was unaware of.

I'll still try and get a picture of the pin I was given.
MG LaVerne

scanning will be done soon.

Can someone help me.?

I am looking for an Arnolt fuel gauge and a fuel tank screw on alloy cap as in the image.

Rod Brayshaw

This thread was discussed between 04/02/2015 and 30/03/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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