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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Barrett-jackson results

Here is a page with the MG's that sold at the Scottsdale Barrett-Jackson this year.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/salesresults.asp?auctionid=53&page=18
BEC Cunha

Surprisingly high prices (good news) for the green and red TDs, IMHO. Neither appears near concours condition from what little you can see. Obviosly a black interior does not detract from the bidding :-)

I was watching a show the other day that gave average auction prices for the TD. According to their stats, the price has dropped in the last 5 years from an average around 25k USD to just above 20K USD.

Frankly, I don't care much about it as, like most of us, I didn't buy the car, nor am I improving it, for monitary gain.
L Karpman

Hey Luschey ...you out there ??? somebody got some "splain' to do"!!!!!
What is it with Black Interiors in these cars? Was it something the "owners" demanded? I'm asking ....and mine is black!
David Sheward

Maybe I'm the only one, but that Barrett auction does not interest me in the least because of the outrageous prices the cars supposedly sell for...

I dunno...on the other hand, if I could sell mine for a huge profit...nah...fergitaboutit!!! LOL...

Best regards,

DaveL
dave lackey

Auctions like this have always brought in very high values for cars. I think it must be about the last place you would want to buy a car at. You cannot test them and there are all sorts of folks bidding against you that have no idea of the worth of the cars or whats original.
Chris Couper

Your correct Chris. You are relying on the reputation of the persons who pick the cars for the auction and of course the seller.

This is a rich persons auction. Obviously money is not an object. You could purchase a nicer TD for less than these two went for.

I did notice that last year the TD they had went for 1$14,ooo, but in other years they have been higher.
BEC Cunha

I must be a distant relative of PT Barnum or WC Fields ....I kinda enjoy watching it! LOL !
A little cheer inside me goes up for the guy who's neighbors must have though he was nuts to spent $300k restoring a bus ...until he made over $4 million profit on it!
Likewise a little laugh comes out watching Mo-par "clones & customs" go for ridiculous $$!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Until about 1972-73, antique and classic cars were a "hobby." Investors were not interested at all. I recall trying to get a $2k loan putting up my '47 MG TC and '60 Mercedes 190SL as collateral. I was laughed out of every bank in town. Then a spark of high profile cars popped up on the then, "big boys" auction site - Kruse Auction. Cars such as the "Stripper Duesenburg" SJ owned by famous stripper Gypsy Rose Lee went for around $80k. A world record back in that day. Also, another Duesenburg SSJ (Shortened Supercharged "J") custom made for actors Clark Gable and Gary Cooper (only 2 made) popped up for $250k. Then the market exploded as investors saw the opportunity to make a buck. In no more than a few years those type cars were hitting the 5 million mark. The rest is history, as they say, and the "hobbiest" got left in the dust. My $.02USD

Cheers

Larry

L Karpman

That was last January, this January hasn't started yet!
I have pics of the FAT W/W RHD TD from when it was on ebay in 2005 and the highest it got was just above $14,000 (item #36). Go figure!
Cheers
grimmye
G.J. Cenzer

Regarding one of the TDs: It has "the original slotted wheels with proper white wall tyres".

White walls? Is that true that they originally came with wide white wall tires as shown in the photograph?

Regarding Barrett-Jackson, I think that the president of the company said it correctly. If you are *selling* a car, this is the place to do it, because the price of the car is "brought up" by the frenzy and other way more expensive cars. He said flat-out in an interview that as far as the more affordable collector cars, you could find them for much cheaper out on the open market than there.

Scott
Scott

I attended BJ in Palm Beach the last two years and will probably go again this year.

The whole affair is a total farce! 75% of the cars never get on the auction stage. They sit outside and the really interesting people mill about haggling over the cars parked that will likely never get inside. And I might add, that very few English cars make it inside. Its all the Detroit iron that seems to get the action. Its worth seeing all the cars and rich weirdos!

And those dudes that do go inside don't really know what they want and (IMHO) bid for the thrill of outbidding some dude on the other side of the room.

I found security very tight, and I didn't go inside. You couldn't get near cars like the Howard Hughes "Hepafilter" Buick.

I will be interested to see if there are any more $100,000 Healeys.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

Also saw the Monterey RM Classic auction on ESPN. This was in December of 06.

A number of TC's MGA's and a slew of Jags. Good amount of british iron. Here are the results.

One of the TC's was reported to be something like #45. it went for 37,000

Here is a web with the results.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/events/auctionResults/auctionResults.aspx?eventID=147
BEC Cunha

A question from one who is unversed in the hype of auto auctions:

None of us, 10 years ago, would have expected to see $50,000 Healys or $100,000 E-Jags - or $25K TR6's (what on earth has prompted that!) In spite of the seeming flatness of current T prices, don't all of these prices indicate that our T's are due to escalate in price? I know - the stockbroker says that "I have two balls and neither of them are crystal," but I keep thinking that these big money investors are going to discover our cars and then we'll no longer to be able to afford our own cars.

For those of you with a longer timeline with T pricing, will the flat pricing stay, or are we due for a boot upwards.

Thanks,
Dave
Dave Jorgensen

It's hard to say what prices will do. Certainly they will ratchet upwards over time, but it's the rate of appreciation and top end that determine whether it has great value. Collector value is usually based on the "unique" features or "history" of a make and model. Good old supply and demand factors in big time too. The TC was truly "The Sports Car America Loved First." Brought over by servicemen after WWII, and then later exported directly to North America, it was the first affordable 2 seat roadster. That history alone will always value it over the TD per say. Often the low production and unique features do it, such as the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing for example. A fairly low production car, with a unique body and door style. When I look at the prices of the early SL's. My ex- poor little 1960 Mercedes 190 SL roadster tops out in the $40-50 range about now, while it's big brother the 300SL gullwing commands many hundreds of thousands of dollars. At one time it hit the $500,000 mark in the US. In 1973 (and I have the ad in front of me) a 300SL Gullwing is offered in the ad, in excellent condition, for $11,500 by a well known collector car dealer.

If Detroit automakers had continued to make muscle cars, instead of whimpy, light weight, down tuned gas savers, the current muscle car craze would probably not exist anywhere near the extent it does now. But, those cars represent something that for decades was unavailable in an affordable car, and represent to a generation the car they first drove or owned, or wish they owned.

After the demise of British Leyland, the roadster faded away. The Corvette continued, but got bigger, and bigger. It wasn't until the Mazda Miata came back in '89-'90 that the affordable two seat roadster was back. They were often directly compared with the MG, and that the fun of the sports car had returned. But, there are zillion of them out there after a 16 year run so far, so in all likelihood you will never see great collector value in them after we are all long gone. But, hey, who knows.

Most of us on this BBS can say, and say often, $@&#@ I wish I would have kept that XXXX I used to have, because now they are collectable and everyone wants one and is willing to pay big bucks.

So, I believe the T Series will certainly go up, but will probably never hit any near dizzying heights. Then again, I have no crystal ball either :-)
L Karpman

It will be interesting another 25-30 years down the road to see if any of the recent Japanese or German cars will command such prices.

The thing that convinces me that there will be problems with recent cars becoming collectible are the electronics and prices of spare parts. When a car is currently in production, and a single headlight cluster is nearly $1000 to replace, that doesn't bode well for a collector down the road... And, with the complexity of electronics going into the current cars, debugging problems and getting spare parts will again be a huge challenge.

I know of a British repair shop in Eugene where the owner said he just couldn't keep up with all of the electronic test/debug equipment for Jag/Land Rover. Every time they update the test equipment, that's another $10k or more for each shop to purchase to support those cars.

Scott
Scott

Scott, you are absolutely right in doubting the long term prospects of modern electronic systems. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy my simple MG's (and still refuse to fit electronic ignition).

My (pessimistic) guess is that most post-1985 cars will end up as recycle-fodder for the steel furnaces because of non-repairable electronics?
Willem van der Veer

A simple formula:
Supply & Demand, divided by memories times the square root of hype, minus spendable income, less alimony = "selling price"!
What will the "other guy" pay and for what? You never can tell! Who would have guessed that the Movie re-make of "Gone in 60 Seconds" would have had the impact it has had on the Mustang GT market? "Cloned Phony Ponies" hitting over half a mill! Will they "hold" that value once the hype dies down ...or for that matter once somebody offers a "65 GT 500 fiberglass kit"? (Not in my budget to bet on it!) I watched a 66 Nova go for over 1/2 a mill....(my wife and I took the plates off ours and left it stuck in the mud because we did not feel it was worth the $25.00 it would have cost to get it towed in 1974!...we came back for the battery!)The "Cloned Cobra" seems to have driven the value of a real one down over the last few years! Three years ago we watched in Absolute Horror as a guy at a car show sold a 71 Gremlin for $16k. (I tried to pay people to take ours away!) I sold my 56 Dodge Royal 4 door(super red-ram Hemi)...fugliest car I ever owned....four times for $20.00 and people keep giving it back to me!
My "prediction"....10 years from now @ Barrett-Jackson documentation will include "indisputable DNA/Methane gas certificate showing Howard Hughes actually passed gas in this car" making it worth the reserve price of $XXXXXXXX!
Enjoy the ride!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Hilarious David! I think of the current craze towards muscle cars just like the Internet stock bubble. I'll bust big time. That said, antiques and classics that have a "history" of value appreciation and value retention "over time" will always make the best investments. A classic Packard, Deussy, or Auburn Boat tailed Speedster is going to maintain value and keep climbing steadily over time. Sure there will be spikes here and theere.

Frankly, I don't care much about the value of the T Series, as I am absolutely confident that they will contine to rise over time at, albeit, a slow pace. One can look at that 2 ways. First, one may be sad their car is woth less than the cost of restoration, or glad that they remain affordable to acquire, drive, restore, maintain and repair. I bought mine for the latter.

Larry
L Karpman

Not that I wish to be a wet blanket, but much of the inflation bubble in the world of automobile "investing" follows the types of car the current crop of 45 to 55 year olds desired to have in high school. They could (and often did) own that beautiful 67 Dodge Charger (I did!) but could not afford the Hemi version and sometimes such things as posi-trac had to be left off. So these old guys with disposable income from kids gone and spouses working, and mortgages which are much smaller than they once were do one of two things. They either buy something new that is covered ad nauseum in Car and Driver or Road & Track or Automobile, or they search out an excellent example of what they really wished for in High School.

I recently read the book about Great American Garages or some such title, and what struck me is that there is a finite number of cars a single person can really enjoy. Otherwise, you're just running a museum, and the cars wear out from lack of use. I don't know exactly what that number is, but considering my other endevours, for me that number is probably two vintage cars at most, with perhaps one as the perfect number. Count me as a person who probably isn't going to help inflate our car prices by being a mulitple owner. And I sure don't need a whole new set of wonderful Dodge friends. If I wanted to, I could have hung onto my neat Pontiac friends, and as it is, I have trouble keeping up with my very cool MG buddies from the past 25 years.

My theory doesn't exactly explain all of us here, because in many cases we read the 'wrong' book (The Red Car) and were unable to break from the attraction of the marque! But to be sure, the next big MG explosion in value will be the MGA (with the twin cam leading the way), followed closely by the restoration of reasonable MGBs, and those of us who own T-Series will be of the same set of oddities who own Packards and Dusenburgs. Interesting cars, love to see one, but wouldn't buy one today. The time our cars' values flatten out and decline is around the corner, so treat your restoration like a good golf game (if there is one). It won't make you rich, it will cost you more in the long run than it is worth, but you will enjoy yourself, mostly stay out of trouble, and meet the nicest people.

I think I'll go skiing now.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

I go to BJ in Phoenix every year. Basically it's an excuse to go see my Dad who lives there. I have to admit the show is a hoot! I take my 2 sons with me when I can. We look at the cars and the restorations and get to see the good, the bad and the crazy! The auction itself is of minor interest. It's getting up close to the cars that is the fun part. They sit out under the tents on the grass and you can get right up to them and often talk to their owners about the car, the restoration, what they expect to get for the car etc... Lots of fun, but I get fried out after about 5-6 hours a day. The vendors are very interesting and peddle very expensive merchandise and posters and even a couch made out of a 1958 caddie front end. It's an interesting experience that I would recommend to anyone if they are in the neighborhood of one of the auctions. There are very few english cars except for jags. Every once in a while very interesting MG's. 2 years ago there was a VA that was amazing.
Rob
Rob Silverman

One of the more interesting comments made by the english announcer of the Moterey RM aution when the went over the TC was that the car was way over restored and was far nicer than when it came from the factory, but the price of the car would not cover the total cost that had been put into the restoration.

I think that says it all. Unless we are willing to restore our cars regardless of what it costs, just because of our love of the car, it is unlikely that many of these will survive that long.

Of course, if the price of the muscle cars keeps going up, more and more people are going to look for a nicely restored less expensive car. Like ours.
BEC Cunha

> I recently read the book about Great American Garages or some such title, and what struck me is that there is a finite number of cars a single person can really enjoy. Otherwise, you're just running a museum, and the cars wear out from lack of use.

For mere mortals this might be true, however I do know of a guy who has something like 39 cars, and they do seem to get run quite a bit, though some more often than others. I mean, why 12 Lotus Elises aside from just one in each color? He has something like 9 Ferraris, 12 Elises, a couple of Lotus 7's, a few 911s, a couple Carrerra GTs, some Euro rally cars, Ford GT, Z07 Corvette, Cobra, etc.

He has a transporter and often takes a number to the track to run for track days. I've heard that he drives a different one to work each day, at least during the summer.

Me, I'd prefer a much smaller number of exotic cars, say 5. I don't ask for much...

Scott
Scott

Hi All,

T Type values always seem to come up for discussion from time to time....
About 2 years ago on a clear,early Summers evening, our current TF was 'sitting' on the front lawn. Two months before this a 5 year total restoration had been completed.A gentleman who was driving past our home stopped to have a look at the car.He came to the front door and asked if he could "look at the the TF parked on the front lawn".This neatly attired man who was about 60 years of age, walked around the car,and said to me that he had been hankering after a TF like this one for over 15 years.He explained that he had just sold his three businesses and was retiring."Would I like to sell the car?" He was offering a considerable amount of money which would be deposited into my nominated Bank account the next morning by 10.00am.
I actually summed up the offer,for about 1 second,and indicated that although it was a generous,tempting offer being made as we always need cash,the reality was I did'nt want the money,I wanted the TF!Allied to this,rarely do subsequent owners of true enthusiasts cars,really have any comprehension of the work done.
The "Recreation Value" of our cars is infinite and to me the most important aspect of ownership.Interesting people you meet with,and the learning of the restoration process in all its forms,beats the 'money tree' any day! Cheers Rob.Grantham
Rob. Grantham

I think Dave Braun has the basic formula down. Its all about cars that people either had before and had to give up or never could afford but admired in thier youth. Then as they have lots of disposible income these cars come onto their radar screen and money becomes no object. So just get the old car magazines out about 30 years back and see what was hot then.

Having said that you will run into a problem with this formula a bit when you get into the era when computers started to take over cars. I am not sure what the supply of computer chips for older cars is like but that could certainly put a damper on a restoration if you could not get a chip.

The trick is to find those cars that were sleepers (Porsche Speedster, MB Gullwings, 3000 Healeys, ...) that were noticed in the early days, but were not legendary then).

I am afraid that the T'series had their day a number of years ago. We had sold one TD for $33,000 at one of these auctions back in the mid 70's, so we have a long way to go counting inflation to meet that mark.

Also the price of TD's and TF's are always going to play second fiddle to TC's. I would expect over time for the dollar spread there to increase vs decrease. TC's were much more 'classic' (Sorry TD19629) than the TD/TF's.
Chris Couper

Here is Automedia's idea of the worth of near classic cars like the TD

http://www.automedia.com/Modern/Classic/194953/MG/TD/res20020101mg/1
Chris Couper

Nice article. Thanks Chris
BEC Cunha

You gotta love "raced, rallied and enthusiastically flogged" from that one!
Great read.
Thanks Chris!
David
David Sheward

This thread was discussed between 31/12/2006 and 08/01/2007

MG TD TF 1500 index

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