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MG TD TF 1500 - Battery Cables

Chris Cooper lists battery cables as

"The negative battery cables were wrapped in a cloth webbing. Fairly tight, at least tighter than the coarse threads for the wiring harness.

The positive cable and other grounds were bare braided cables."

I note in the Shop Manual and on one of the factory pictures that the end of the cable to the starter appears to have a boot on it.

Does anyone have a good picture of an original cloth wrapped battery cable? Any with the boot on it so I might get a good idea of what it was?

Any close reproductions out there?



Bruce Cunha

Rhode Island Wiring has great repros. Helmet head and the correct black cloth covered cables. I think this pic is from Chris Couper. Check out his car as he's just down the road from you. :-) Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Bruce,

If you look up 'The Original TD midget' and go to TD/TF Wiring Diagrams,
there is a photo of both the Starter Motor and Positive earth cable. These were purchased many years ago from a Lucas agent who had closed down in Malaysia.

The starter cable was originally covered in a fine cotton weave and covered with a light waxing.

The rubber boot is available however the originals are better in that they are a better, bigger size.

As Peter H. says, Rhode Island Wiring is probably your best avenue.

Cheers
Rob Grantham

Here are the Rhode Island Wiring cables. The kit also included braided block to frame cables. I think they are excellent. The only problem I had is that I broke off a drill bit trying to drill the pilot hole in the Neg. terminal so I put the battery shut-off on that terminal (I know, it's better on the earth side) and drilled the post on the shut-off to accept the hooded cable.

Jud


J. K. Chapin

Here's a picture of an original battery cable. Note that it has an extra eye on the helmet that I don't see on the repros, but I don't know what the extra eye was intended to be used for.

If my cable ever had a boot on the end, it has long since disappeared.

Joe


Joe Olson

I also broke a bit in a battery terminal trying to drill for the screw in a helmet cable. What’s the secret?

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

This pic, which I think came from Rob Grantham also shows the same -ve terminal that Joe posted of his original. I don't think anyone supply's these. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

This one's from Frank Cronin. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Yet to drill mine Lonnie but I guess because the lead is so soft a really slow speed is required. Possibly even drilling by hand. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

Actually, after the first 1/4 inch of lead, the terminal was surprisingly hard - like I was hitting steel. Does the lead terminal have a steel inner core?

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I wouldn't have thought so Lonnie. Unlike steel where the swarf spirals out of the flutes in a continuous dual stream with a correctly sharpened bit, moving at the correct speed for the drill diameter, I think that the bit would bite into the lead, jam and then fracture. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I haven't gotten to this part to install the battery cables from RI Wiring to the battery terminals. Broken drill bits tapping into the terminals ruining my replica vintage Lucas battery I paid dearly for worry me....

I'm going to contact RI Wiring and Jim's Battery (formerly Antique Auto Battery) what they recommend how to install.

Frank

TF1414
Frank Cronin

I suspect you need a negative rake cutting edge on your bit as for brass or acrylic. A few rubs with diamond lap or a small oilstone on each lip would probably be enough then low speed and low feed. Maybe a lubricant as well.
Chris
C I Twidle

Chris,

If the photo of the red MGTD is yours, could I ask where the battery 'LUCAS'
caps came from ?


Cheers
Rob Grantham

Rob Grantham

Great. I think I have a long piece of the original cable.

I did find ones with the second hole on ebay. They are also already drilled.

I will check out Rhode Island Wiring.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Battery-Terminal-Helmets-One-Pair-Positive-Negative-861014-861019/263823648124?hash=item3d6d1d657c:g:YnIAAOSw~xZbT55u&frcectupt=true

Peter. Are you grounding your fuel pump off the small hole on the terminal?
Bruce Cunha

If you are thinking of going to helmet connectors, I suggest that you either, buy complete cables or the bronze helmets. You should avoid the lead ones. The problem with these is they are difficult to solder. Lead and solder melt at nearly the same temperature if you overheat, you will end up with blobs of molten lead on the floor. Here is one supplier of bronze helmets.

http://www.britishwiring.com/Negative-Helmet-Type-Battery-Terminal-37-16-p/c991.htm

If you don't like the colour you could either paint or tin them.

John



J Scragg

Bruce not at the car at the moment but I think the illustrations in the WSM and Driver's Handbook show where the fuel pump is earthed. My harness had an earth connector that fitted onto the pump body. I'll check it out when I'm next at the car.

Rob I think Chris got his from the reproduction LUCAS battery supplier in the States. Ages ago I asked them if they'd just supply the caps and the reply was "Sorry no can do. If you want the caps then buy the battery". I've been after the caps for years with no absolutely luck. Even thought about casting them if I could get hold of an original. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, I may be asking the same question about your picture from Frank Cronin's car as has already been asked but I'm wondering what the smaller wire from the terminal is feeding. It looks like it's going to where the fuel pump would be but that doesn't look like a fuel pump. Anyway, curiosity is killing me.

Thanks.

Jud
J. K. Chapin

Jud,

The extra wire looks like it feeds an auxiliary 12 volt socket. I assume to power an inspection lamp.

John
J Scragg

J, thanks. That makes sense.

Jud
J. K. Chapin

I've not seen this wire or an original helmet head TD here in Sydney so I can't comment on its purpose. Was the wire ever used on the TD? Maybe this question is one for the dwindling number of cars who've had just one owner? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Good observation John. I am pretty good at soldering, but your point is valid.

Bruce Cunha

Reactivating with a broken screw approach.

Based on this thread I ordered a cable set from RIW. Their instructions said drill a 3/32 (0.093") hole in the terminals 5/8" deep. They did supply a pair of correct self tapping screws. I measured the root diameter of the threads and it was closer to 1/8" (0.125").
I drilled the first hole, on the positive terminal, using a brand new Cobault drill, with no issues. The screw was very tight going into the hole.

On the second hole the drill, one use before, broke at just about 1/2" deep.

For several weeks I drove with the Helmut terminal pushed on, but recently I have been having gremlins in the TD. The furl pump terminal unscrewed for no good reason and the car, limped home.

I decided I needed to get the broken drill out and secure the terminal properly. I had, had several weeks to think about it.

I looked for a piece off 1/8" steel rod. The only piece I found was 304 SS. I would have rather had something I could harden but decided to give it a go.
I drilled a 0.625" deep (5/8") deep 3/32" diameter hole which I then opened to ).096" (#41). The original 3/32 hole was too tight on a drill. This left a 0.015 Wall.

I filed two rectanguler notches in the wall about 3/32 deep and with a slight rake to act as a cutting edge. The notches took up about 1/4 of the circumference each. I cut the rod about 1-1/2" long. This basically gave me a core drill. The broken drill had a slight stub left above the post so I was able to initially locate the core drill on the broken drill stub.

Now you need to go very slow and back the core drill off VERY often. About every 3 to 5 turns. There is no place for the swarf to go except into rectangular slots.

You will also want to drill in reverse and clear out the angular grove with air and a dental pick to remove what collects.
Eventually after about 45 minutes the broken drill freed itself from the post and STUCK itself into the reverse turning core drill.

Picture shows the core drill with the broken drill bit stuck inside it. I tried to remove it without success but perhaps a bit of heat would work.

The hole was now clear of drill I cleaned out the hole and opened it up, initially to 1/8" There is plenty of meat left for the screw threads at 1/8.
Even then the, supplied, screw did not want to go into the terminal.

I opened up the hole a bit further to 0.136" #29 and I was able to get the screw to go deep enough.

Now I am a happy camper wit both terminals secured.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Hmmm? I have a core bit for getting broken screws out of wood. I wonder if that would work to get my broken bit out of my Neg. battery terminal. Thanks, Jim, for the process description.

Jud
J. K. Chapin

Frank Cronin and I were having a discussion on this very topic last week. Jim could have saved us a bunch of time. :-)
Christopher Couper

This thread was discussed between 30/03/2019 and 06/08/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

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