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MG TD TF 1500 - Bolt Direction?

Not trying to start a debate here, but I noticed in Mr. Barrys photo of his insulation proceedures, the bolts are facing in with the nuts on the inside. When I disassembled my car, the bolts were facing the other way, nuts on the outside. Which is correct. PJ

Paul S Jennings

When I disassembled my 50 MG the firewall bolts went from outside to inside
CJ Henderson

Unmolested hardware from TF 1414 fresh from the dipper. I cropped the photo for a better view. Bolts are inserted from inside the tub towards the engine.

Frank Cronin

Thanks Frank that you posted, made me go back and relook at my photos and found most a you described them though I show what looks to be 4 going the other way.
CJ Henderson

Thanks Frank, So I guess mine were right with the nuts on the engine side. I have all new bolts, washers, screws and nuts for the car from the UK! Lots of bolts! I want them in the way they were originally. I had to chase a lot of threads in the chassis and capture nuts, as a few non British bolts were in the car before. Thanks again! PJ
Paul S Jennings

Since the picture of Mr. Barry's installation was shot from the inside, I suspect that the captive nuts are missing on his car. If that is the case, his car would have come to him with the bolts (actually, I think that those particular fasteners would be called screws rather than bolts) oriented as he shows them. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

Old George usually put the bolts in from the rear except on cold mornings when his arthritis was playing up he would favour his left hand and the bolts would go in from the front. After his usual extra pint on payday lunchtime the bolts could go in from either side.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Well. In the areas where there is carpeting laying over the bolts having the heads on the inside makes the most sense, so why not all of them that way?
Christopher Couper

M Magilton, Victoria, Australia

Old George usually put the bolts in from the rear except on cold mornings when his arthritis was playing up he would favour his left hand and the bolts would go in from the front. After his usual extra pint on payday lunchtime the bolts could go in from either side.

Matthew.

That was funny Matthew!
Did old George have a brother, one who lived in the US? If he did, I swear he worked on my car many times, but only after payday! LOL. PJ
Paul S Jennings

In general, I find it good practice to leave the heads outside in the elements. With the nuts and exposed threads left outside of the car, they can become rusted and stuck much more easily.
Steve S

Aren't they all supposed to be going into captive nuts? Bud
Bud Krueger

Not the ones that go through the pillars.
Christopher Couper

Every TF I have stripped out,(and there have been a few)the heads are on the inside and the nuts on the outside.As Chris has indicated,of course their are captive nuts on the bulkhead flange and not on the body pillars.

I suspect previous owner/restorers in replacing the foot panel mix the direction.

MG did have some semblance of order!

Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis")TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

As Rob has indicated there was and still is an order of vehicle assembly.

It is usual practice when fixing or bolting an item to a structure or a parent piece or part that the item being fixed or attached has the bolt head through it.

There are some deviances from this for practical reasons but not many.

If a wing/fender/guard is being attached to a body or chassis the bolt head and washer is started through this panel to have the nut or captive nut on the body/chassis.

A captive nut assists this as it's the only option, but when there is no captive nut the usual practice is the same.
Rod Brayshaw

Rod and Rob: Great advice. The other rule to understand is that you tighten nuts (unless captive) and not bolts. So think about that when you install something. Which is the most logical side to use a wrench on?

And make sure you are thinking of the car when fully assembled, not what its like with everything stripped away. If you install a part before the fenders are on will you be able to get your socket wrench onto that nut later or would it be easier from the other side? The factory had to think of this.

And as you pointed out there are a few exceptions.

The one place on the car I cannot figure out is the running boards. The 3 bolts/nuts from the fender to the running board don't really seem to fit any of the above models specifically. Should the nuts be forward, backwards or a combination. Some of the unrestored cars I have seen have a combination and I wonder if that is where 'Old Georges' arthritis as Matthew pointed out, came into play.
Christopher Couper

There are only four captive nuts @ the rear of the engine on the TD & TF, connecting the footrest to the bulkhead. They are clearly visible in Frank's pic above. I don't know about a TF but the other nut/bolt orientation often called into question are those that secure the radiator cross mounting rail on a TD. Some suggest the two pairs of bolts are mounted conventionally, ie heads up. Others believe the nuts are on top making it easier to access for removal. Any thoughts? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This should answer the question.

Same orientation the part being attached has the bolt head through it so yes Peter the nuts are on the top.

Rod Brayshaw

Thanks Rod. Perhaps you could also shed light on the following. At the risk of a small deviation from the thread your pic also shows the RCM rail with the radiator mounting holes to the rear which is probably, (almost certainly) correct. My RCM was mounted that way when I bought the car in 1969 but the bonnet was way too long. Reversing the rail solved the problem resulting in a perfect fit. Have you any idea why this would be so? Could the body on my car somehow be too far forward? Could it have left Abingdon that way?
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The orientation for a TD/TF as in the image is correct. The cutaways allow a spanner to get in over the steering rack to access the radiator nuts.

The assumption I could make is early in the TD's life the bonnet sections may have been replaced with factory items, they are longer than needed as supplied. A repairer may not have realised this and fitted the RCM the other way to help bonnet fit. I doubt if Abingdon made that error.

The forward mounts for body fitting is determined by the 2 triangular sections bolted to the chassis so this is almost a static position.
Rod Brayshaw

Peter: Did you follow the thread on the cowl strip? If the rubber strip sits fully in the shelf then you hood would appear too long. But if its shoved up against the lip then it would fit correctly with the radiator mounted as Rod shows.

Other than that unless someone modified the radiator during a re-core, I don't see how your body could be too far forward. The fenders would not fit and the body holes don't have much leeway. In fact the fenders are hard enough to get installed as it is with everything fitting perfectly. So when you review your radiator mounting you could mount a fender first and determine the alignment of the headlamp brackets for instance.
Christopher Couper

The cowl rubber is correctly fitted Chris & the radiator is original. I will take your advice & trial fit a fender. They were both repaired as they'd rusted around the bracket mounting point & have no mounting holes yet. What you say Rod makes perfect sense. I was very surprised to learn that "the factory items were longer than needed as supplied". The body is where it should be so the bonnet is probably overlong for the reason you suggest. It was me that reversed the RCM rail in order to make the bonnet fit perfectly, (there's about 20mm in it!) however the other half of the equation is how well do the front fenders (mudguards in Oz speak) fit with the headlamp brackets? There will be some trial & error involved before I drill the new headlamp bracket holes in the guards. I'm inclined to leave the RCM rail reversed to avoid having to cut down the bonnet panels, unless someone can suggest a very good reason to do otherwise. Appreciate your advice guys. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter: Why don't you start another thread on this subject.
Christopher Couper

This thread was discussed between 01/06/2014 and 09/06/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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