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MG TD TF 1500 - Brakeline bolts
|I am specifically referring to Moss part No. 180-701, since I may not always know the right terminology, so I have also attached a picture. |
I was in the process of removing the three bolts that attach to the 4-way fitting (attached just behind the master cylinder) that holds the brakeklines: one coming from the master cylinder, one leading to the front brakes, and one leading to the rear brakes,
Problem: when unscrewing all three bolts they unsrew out only so far(see image) and then just keep freely turning around. They are loose, but will not either screw out any further, or be pulled out.
Question: How do I remove these? I hope this doesn't turn out to be something simple, as I fear, but I just can't these bolts to come out and don't want to do somethng I'd regret later...like strip or break some internal part.
TIA -- John
|John the flare of the tubing is most likley siezed to the 4 way fitting. Just grab the tubing and give it a good yank. |
|Thanks LaVerne. That's what I thought as well, but believe me I have put a lot of strength into pulling it out, but just wouldn't budge. I'll try more force tomorrow. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something inside the fitting I wasn't aware of.|
LaVerne is right. Tightening the nut 'bulges' the end of the flare, so much that it won't pull loose from the fitting. A really good tug is sometimes required, followed by gently reducing the diameter of the flared end with a file. I had to do that to every brake pipe flare, and none of them leak as a consequence.
|Just went to check this thing out again, and noticed that the tubings moves back and forth within the bolts, but the bolts will not come out. It's getting a bit to cold in the garage now, so I'll work on it tomorrow.|
|Thanks Dave B., I had just sent off my message before seeing yours. I'll work on it as advised and let folks know of the results.|
Cheers -- John
|Okay folks, cold or not, I had to go out see what gives (no pun intended) with these blasted things. Given what LaVerne and Dave indicated, I knew these bolts had to come out. What finally worked (won't mention other things I tried) was to grab the tubing with a pair of vice-grips and pull very hard outwards, while continuing to unscrew the bolts. And yes, they finally yielded and pulled free. |
That's it for tonight, tomorrow's another day.
|I have a question on the last two comments. Two words are underlined in the notes the word free and message. when you put your pointer on the words a message for some dating service pops up. WHat gives? Is this an infection into the board or what???|
|Sounds like an infection on your computer, Tom.|
Download Spybot Search & Destroy (be careful, there is a lot of infectious software with similar names) and also AVG Free and run both on your ocmputer.
Or else take your regular Antivirus and Spybot programs and check to make sure they are current and have up do date data files, and do a special scan.
Are you in the process of replaceing your brake lines ??
|Common problem. I have had several of the fitting ends themselves flare out and get stuck, rather than the tubing. Look carefully at the end and it will likely be mushroomed and dished out. May be time to replace the brake lines and fittings- the new Moss lines have beautiful brass fittings.|
|Steve and George -- I had not initially thought about replacing the brake lines, but my recent experience may suggest that this might need to be done. |
I am in the process of doing a complete "frame-up" restoration and I'm at the point of removing the brake lines, master cylinder, etc.
Being new to the 'T' restoration game, I'm proceeding cautiously, and have found the folks on this site to be extreemly helpful as I rebuild my TF.
Cheers -- John
|In response to TRM's concern about his computer being infected, and adding to Dave B's suggestion, since installing the following, I have not had any further "infections" in my computer: AVG Free edition, ZoneAlarm, and SUPERAntiSpyware. My compter guru friend also installed a browser, that he claimed would also help in these matters.|
|In my last message when I used the word "browser" I ment to write, "router". Sorry 'bout that.|
|If you are doing frame-off resto, change the lines. The originals on my car had at least 3 flare failures, and a couple others in town here had a couple. Likely the original lines are rusty inside also. $130 from Moss, they are the correct length and labled-just have to bend. Moss is having continual discount sales lately. Well worth it, not having to fight old, buggered-up fittings back together. Just my opinion. George|
|George -- Point well taken. I was just out looking at the lines and especially the fittings, and the fittings are pretty "buggered up", given what I'm going through to get them removed. $130? Compared to what I have, and will, put into this restoration, that will be one of my cheaper expenses.|
Again, thanks for the advice -- John
|Dave, Ran a scan and nothing shows that there is a virus or worm. Two words in your note (memo) and (computer) came up underlined with two bars and it is only on this web site that I seem to have the problem. Both words on yours are like a link and it is usually some form of advertisement.|
|Ok, so now I have a question, relating to these Moss brake lines, and I do agree with George that they ARE beautiful!|
I saved my original 3- and 4-ways, and in the process of installing the new brake lines into the 4-way (with the brake light switch), I found that I could not completely tighten that brass fitting on the brake line, against the (female) end of the 4-way! I used one copper washer of the correct size (I thought), but the brass fitting on the brake line seems to bottom out before there is a good seal between the copper washer and the brass fittings. In fact, the copper washer can spin freely!
Not wanting to overtighten these fittings before I'm ready to fill the master cylinder and begin the bleeding process, I'm at a loss as to what to do, and of course, against the sound advice of Dave Braun, I've already lost or thrown out the old fittings I removed!!!
George Butz: did you find this to happen in your experience?
Thanks in advance,
|J Brown 1|
I used new Moss brake lines and my original 3-way and 4-way fittings without difficulty. The connection to the 3-way and 4-way are all compression fittings, so do not use washers. A washer on the nut will float as you describe. When testing the connections on my bench I realized that I was screwing the brake light switch into the wrong port at one point and it did not seat properly.
If you are interested in my notes from my work, please send me your e-mail address and I will send them along.
|Jeff -- If I read what you are saying correctly you are adding a copper washer over the threads of the "bolts" that screw into the 4-way fitting. That is not neccesary the "bolts" go down against the flair on the end of the tubing and press it onto a cone shaped protrusion inside the 4-way fitting. That is where the seal is, and is why the tubing flared out and was hard to remove.|
BTW did you get the cupro-nickel brake lines? When I did my TD thats what I got and after nine years they still look as good as the day I opened the package. Since they are not steel I don't think they will rust or corrode and should last a lot longer than I will.
Have you decided whether to use silicon brake fluid or the DOT 3 stuff. I myself elected to use the silicone because you don't have to worry about the fluid absorbing moisture and corroding things inside the brake system. The alternative is draining the DOT 3 fluid every couple of years and replacing it. DOT 4 is better but still absorbs moisture and must be changed just not as often.
|R. K. Jeffers|
|Hi Jeff, Larry and Bob may have the answers, as the threads for the switch are fine and very different, and there is no washer used either. If that is not the case, try another line (or the other end) and make sure the threads aren't bad, also that there is not some crud or corrosion keeping the new nut from seating all the way. I think the 4-way is not available so be careful with it. George|
I agree with you Bob, but I think you might have started it again !!!!
|Thanks all: Larry, Bob, George, and Steve! I have removed the washers from the pipes that connect to the 4-way (one going to the master cylinder, one going to the front of the car, and the third going to the rear of the car), and will simply thread the pipes into the 4-way. The switch seemed to seat fine, so I believe I have that located properly (I actually did that on the bench).|
Bob: Yes, I did get the cupro-nickel lines from Moss, and yes, I will be using silicone fluid. I do use DOT4 fluid in the race car, but since we flush all lines at the start of each season, and replace all rubber lines every other year, I have not experienced any issues.
Thanks again guys... I've finished the brakes off, and am on my way again!
|J Brown 1|
This thread was discussed between 15/02/2009 and 23/02/2009
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