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MG TD TF 1500 broke down in Madison PA BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - broke down in Madison PA
| GOF Central was great, Tommy won third for the second year in a row. At lreast we're consistent! Left Sandusky at 7 AM, drove along the Lakeshore until Cleveland and then hopped on I-90. Just shy of Erie PA the points on the fuel pump gave up for good. Chris Nowlan with his L2 in a trailer stopped and helped us get to a safe spot where I succeeded in discovering 6 ways to install points that are too thick. Put in the old points and absent any other ideas limped off I-90 in Madison PA. Scarey to say the least. Called our friend Gordon Lawson. In a few hours he will be here with HIS fuel pump. We're staying across the street from him... Can't wait to meet him. Even if we are broke down! warmly dave from my smart phone |
| Dave Braun |
| oops... Make that Madison OH! |
| Dave Braun |
| I was wondering what you were doing in PA. Sorry to hear about the breakdown, glad to hear Tommy's a winner. I bet Dave D. is shaking his head reading this saying I told you so about the emergency faucet pump. Gordon is the man! Looking foward to the pictures and a full report when time permits. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| http://www.ttalk.info/LockePump.htm Emergency fuel pump takes about 2 minutes to install. Half of that time is remembering where you put it. (Seriously) Bud |
| Bud Krueger (TD10855) |
| Dave, Fig also broke down on the way back. Don't know all the details but maybe a blown piston. The MMGTR group is on the way home, staying in Madison WI. |
| Tom Maine (TD8105) |
......well, that was a day....great time on the Thruway and my pump seemed to work well.....
 |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
...and driving along the Niagara River Parkway....
 |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| bud, this may be a stupid question, but what is drip irrigation tubing? is this medical tubing as in IV drip or landscaping product as in drip irrigation? if i type drip irrigation tubing into a search engine it comes up as a landscaping product, but it does not look like the tubing in your photo. regards, tom |
| tom peterson |
| Tom - Any small diameter tubing is fine to use. Drip irrigation will work, but it is not real flexible so would not be my first choice. Most drug stores or home medical stores should have something more flexible that will work fine. Cheers - Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Thanks for pointing that out, Tom, Dave. It took me a bit of hunting to find the drip irrigation tubing that's in the original article. It wasn't very flexible and was a bit expensive. I ended up using plain old clear vinyl tubing. I still have some of the rubber stoppers left in case anybody wants one. Had to buy them in a package of 10, if I recall correctly. Bud |
| Bud Krueger (TD10855) |
| Bud I sure could use one. Let me know an address and I'll send you a check. Cheers, Bob |
| Bob Jeffers |
| There were about 13 dozen times I wished I had put together the pneumatic bulb set up. But in 25 plus years of MG motoring I've only had three fuel pump failures. One on the TD when I left the pump hot, one on the B when it just died, and yesterday. Come to think of it that represents about 2/3 of my left stranded failures because the failure with the pump hot was in my garage. Thanks for the suggestions. If I had made it to a town of any size at all, I would have built the pneumatic pump. At any rate, I'm going to buy a new pump for the rest of the trip, and either send my two non-functioning parts to Dave DuBois for leisurely repair, or play with them myself. Part of the problem was being away for 10 days just before the trip, and the two days I was back were devoted to a client visit. I thought I had repaired the pump, but I guess only enough to get me to Madison, OH! Sorry to hear about Fig. It'll be interesting to see what the problem is. Gordon is both a saint and a hoot. He drove the better part of 8 hours to help us out. This is a bit of an off-time for him in his theatre responsibilities, so Diane and I will be seeing him a lot while we are here. If you ever get a chance to come up to NOTL it is a beautiful town. His pump is MUCH stronger sounding then the one that was in Tommy. I bet I get to see the Wolseley today... the mini-garage/giant shed for the TD is very cool. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Bud, I would take a stopper if still available. Send particulars to; jneel43 at hotmail dot com. Cheers, Jim |
| James Neel TD28423 |
| Dave, So sorry I didn't make it to GOF (again) ...one of these days! Seems I always have a family thing come up when I make plans to go. Pictures comming? What route you taking home? If your getting near Ohio for some reason stop by. I am just off I70 @ 132 Exit (east of Columbus). The invite goes for all on this board if your out this way. Cheers, David |
| David Sheward |
| "Just insert one end of this trusty $12.00 fuel pump in your gas tank opening, two pumps and away you go." Okay, I'm sure it's obvious to everybody else but where does the other end of the hose go?? |
| efh Haskell |
| Fuel line to carbs ...or barbaque grill for fast start! |
| David Sheward |
| And let me get this straight....you drive down the road with this tube dangling somewhere and give it a pump while the car is moving & engine running, correct, should I decide to make one of these? Sounds like the primer on my lawn mower! |
| efh Haskell |
| That's bassically what it is Ed. You are just pressurizing the fuel tank . The hose is going to the cockpit with the bulb handy to pump the pressure. I know a guy who owns quite a fleet of crap vehicles that would never pass a state inspection if we had one. He had a late 70's Toyota pickup and the fuel pump crapped out. Now you and I would most likely go buy a new pump if we wanted to keep it on the road, right? Not this guy. Pull the gas tank out and tie it to the roof with some rope. The poke a hole in the fender (no drilling allowed here) and run the rubber fuel line to the pump. Gravity feed same as most tractors, but without all the fancy engineering. Same guy has a late 70's Ford pickup that I'm pretty sure only has one functioning brake (right front based on the skid in the gravel parking lot) because of leaking cylinders he just hammered the offending lines shut. Keep in mind these are part of his business's company fleet. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| ...no one on here ever own a 'Scot-at-Water' out board motor...or any with priming pumps? I spent my youth squeezing that damn bulb..... And of course later in life a bit quicker engine then the Scot....  |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| Okay, sarcastic ones. If you've been paying attention you should remember that our machines use a very low pressure fuel pump. On the order of 1 psi is plenty adequate to operate a T-car. If you dig out your physics book (or Google) you'll learn that 1 psi is only about 50 mm/Hg. The same physics book should convince you that the sucking pump vacuum is the same as the pressure on top of the petrol. The bulb in the pump brings air in at the open end and forces it out, under pressure, at the other end where the tubing is connected. The tubing is connected to the copper tube that is inserted into the stopper. The stopper makes an air-tight seal at the fuel filler area. The pressure from the bulb is then applied to the top of the petrol in the tank, pushing the petrol through lines, through the non-functioning SU fuel pump and into the carburetor bowls. Vroom. Vroom. With half a tank of fuel it takes less than half a minute to pump up enough pressure to be on your way. A minute worth of pumping got me more than twenty miles. Bud Bob, if your address is still on Stoney Brook your stopper will be in tomorrow's mail. Jim, send me your mailing address. |
| Bud Krueger (TD10855) |
| Bud Thanks a lot for posting the reference to the emergency pump. I'm making one this week! Tom |
| Tom Norby |
| Gord, You're the only guy I know who can take a picture of the car behind you while driving over the Burlington Skyway and post it on the web - all at the same time! I got some nice pix of the GOF from another chap who was there. Seems there were quite a few MMM cars there and nice stuff, too. Maybe that's a GOF I should go to, once the PA is done. Love your pix anyway - keep 'em coming. Gord Clark TF4592 Rockburn, Qué. |
| Gordon A Clark |
| Hahaha... thanks Gord...its a gift... of course none of you will be surprised when you read my obit and find i went off the skyway holding a camera.... |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| Just to prove Dave got here safe and sound...here is 'Tommy' and the 'Wols'... (I would have included the TD, but it seems to have a fuel pump problem...)  |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
...and 'he' himself doing his own photoshoot....
 |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| Gentlemen, can one of you please tell me how to get the little personalized photo that many of you have accompanying your posting? |
| Phil Atrill |
| Just go to the top of the page and click on the customise button Phil. Scroll down and you will find a hearder to load a picture and save it. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| Thx LaVerne - I did that previously without success. through this post, I'm trying again. |
| Phil Atrill |
| Phil, try clicking on Gordon's profile link (above in this post). Then go to the bottom of that page and look for the words: "Would you like to set up a page like this for your car(s)?" and see if that works. (I've not tried myself because I don't have a very good picture - some day.) Ed |
| efh Haskell |
| ....Ok... they are back on the road with one of my 'Ontario' maps marked with a yellow line going 'north'... Dave rebuilt his fuel pump and it sounded very strong...  |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
...and the guys!!!
 |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| You're a good man Gordon Lawson. Dave's a lucky guy to have a women like Diane who travel around the country in Tommy. Safe motoring to all. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| i second that, and she's still smiling too! regards, tom |
| tom peterson |
| Yes, I second the comments about Diane. She is a cheerful traveler whether the going is tough or easy. Gordon is the best host. There is a lovely B&B across from his palatial wartime expanded home with the garage masquerading as a garden shed. If you ever find yourself in NOTL you will have a great time. We owe him quite a bit, and well do our best to repay the favors if he ever makes it to our sleepy Minnesota river town. The fuel pump rebuild held up well until a solder joint broke loose in Stoney Creek. The wires are quite tired as are the connector rings. Garage in Stoney Creek crimped and soldered a new ring connector to the wire that goes to the contact blade. The connector is a bit bulky so we are running without the pump end cover. The repairs and adjustments are doing great and despite the heat we are making great time. We've holed up for the night in Owen Sound, done some laundry and caught a light dinner. Tomorrow we will head up to Tobermory and take the ferry across Huron and then go to Espanola. Should be beautiful country, and Tommy is running great. Anyone wish to join us? warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| I'd like to Dave but I can't get there. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| The fuel pump stopped outside of Tobermorey. Evidently, absent decent instructions, they are difficult to adjust. After tweeking the contact blade by bending it towards the points slightly, the pump has been happy all the way to Sault Ste. Marie. This is now officially no longer a trip home, but a road trip, since we have decided to meander up and around the North side of Lake Superior before re-entering the United States. OK, my fuel pump theory is this: If I undo the six screws and remove the iron core and spindle-diaphragm from the pump (without loosing the zillion 'roller' washers) should I LOOSEN the armature two holes to avoid having to bend the blade into the points again... or perhaps since it went several hundred miles today just leave it alone? Your votes are welcome! warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| My vote would be rebuild with new gasket and points, etc.- obviously something went wrong to make it stop working. Unless the diaphram and the housing gasket are really new, they may well tear when you separate it, or leak upon reassembly. Maybe send it to David DuBois who really knows how to rebuild these things and can test it properly as well. George |
| George Butz |
| George, I'm addressing possible things to do if the adjustment proves unreliable. I've already separated the diaphragm and housing gaskets, and all was well. Sending it to Dave DuBois is attractive, if I wasn't in the middle (relatively) of nowhere on a road trip. The adjustment is simple once the parts are separated, you just work the spindle against the diaphragm and see to it that the points toggle over. I'm just not practiced at it. The other problem are the sketchy wires. I believe rewiring it is in the near future, just not on this trip. A new pump is on its way to Gordon, he will forward it to me in Canada if I really get stuck. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Since it's working now . I vote for don't screw with it till you get home. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| I agree.... (I only personally deliver as far as the Lake Huron Ferry...) |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| Dave, I didnt' realize you were still on the road. Of course don't mess with it then! |
| George Butz |
| A cool Canadian rain is falling today. The fuel pump will stay in place, and I trust the set up will work, so the 'leave it in place' votes win. Gordon- good 'un! Thanks all, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Just a few miles outside of Sault Ste. Marie, the fuel pump stopped again. This time, on the side of the road, I removed the six screws, pulled it apart and carefully readjusted it, first so it would just click over, and then 4 full holes out (2/3 of a turn, per the Morris instructions). I also had to re-bend the blade slightly and the toggle stop. The pump took us all the way to Scheiber where we are spending the night. We stopped at the Canadian Carving store, and got some need stuff and shipped it home. The weather went from Rainy to Sunny to Rainy and we visited the falls in Wawa. We scooted down through sun to a little resturant for lunch, and then on to Marathon. That looked so good that we went through rain and then sun again all the way to Shreiber... tomorrow when I switch on Tommy I hope I hear the rapid clicking of a happy fuel pump. Still a great trip though, the roads are curvy, hilly and not crowded with traffic. There are rocky outcroppings, lake, streams and trees everywhere for the last 600 km. Beautiful! warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Two years ago, to my wifes dismay, my daughter insisted to be driven to the church, in her gown, from Grand Central station to St. John the devine in Manhattan,in the TD, for her wedding using wedding cars sevenoaks! It was her grandfathers car, & will be hers.The fuel pump had been given me trouble off & on just before the wedding, it lasted until we got home 3 days later. It quit completly, & I changed the polarity of a B pump & mounted it on the TD base plate.The happy couple met us at Sawmill creek for the GOF. |
| Len Fanelli |
| Where ja break down today? |
| LaVerne Downey |
| ha ha. Grand Marias. Got it working pretty well until Split Rock, where I discovered that the current problem with the adjustments were caused by the hardened hinge pin backing half out, a problem masked by the black electrician's tape I wrapped around the lower half of the points mount... In case the hardened pin worked loose since I'm running without my cover. Stripped the pump by the side of the road in road construction (again) and it ran pretty good. In fact it seemed to prefer 65 mph to 45. So we drove all the way home. From Schreiber Ont to Hastings MN in 13 hours with meal stops... And pump repair stops. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Still waiting for the fuel pump to arrive at the parcel service??? Am away Sunday/Monday and will check on Tuesday.... |
| gblawson(gordon- TD27667) |
| Thanks Gordon, For those who might be interested, the trip was 2716 miles, with 106 gallons used, for 25.6 mpg. The fuel pump, although annoying, did not detract from a fun drive. I'll organize the photos soon and they will be accessible on www.dbraun99.com warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Congratulations Dave. How's the backside feeling?. The pump issue while annoying added more "flavor" to your adventure add will endear the journey to you that much more in the coming years. |
| LaVerne Downey |
| Quite an adventure, Dave. Welcome home. Waiting on the pic's-thinkin ya'll may have the iron butt award wrapped up for this year. Dan |
| Dan Craig |
| LOL Still a bit numb! My thoughts exactly LaVerne. I don't get it why more people don't really test their cars on jaunts like this. Dan, they give out those awards AT the GOF, our jaunt later doesn't qualify for anything more than great memories and some cool pictures (and a sore butt)! Speaking of which, http://www.dbraun99.com/GOFXXXII/ warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Excellent pictures Dave. I see you have learned from the drive master photographer (Gordon) in a couple of shots. Thanks so much for sharing. Wish I could have been there. Where is the location for the next one? |
| LaVerne Downey |
| Dave, Love the phootos of N Ontario - I could smell the fresh air! ... Chris |
| Chris Malcolm (TD 29228) |
| Big fingers type phOOto's - oh well.... |
| Chris Malcolm (TD 29228) |
| Great photos Dave. I'm always impressed by those who have the passion to take their Ts on long trips. Also, thanks for doing your part to promote Ontario tourism!! |
| Phil Atrill |
| Thanks guys. Some more are coming from some friends, including Tibetan monks sitting in Tommy. Next year's is Kalamazoo MI. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
This thread was discussed between 04/07/2010 and 15/07/2010
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