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MG TD TF 1500 - Broken stud on front of block
|Good evening gentlemen|
I need some advice on a problem with a broken stud. In working on my TF, discovered that a stud - the one that would normally be used to hold the upper generator bracket to the block - is a broken off with only about 1/4 to 3/16 of the stud standing proud of the front of the block. The engine is in the car and I am going to try and remove this while I have the radiator out
The generator bracket was being held by one of the thermostat housing studs as an alternative location for the bracket.
What is the best means of removal. I think cutting it off and using an easy-out to remove is most likely the best option.
Any advice out there.
I always wondered why that bracket looked odd - then too a close look this morning and saw that it was mounted incorrectly.
Thanks in advance,
|J. W. Delk|
|NO, NO, NO!|
EZ out is the worst and last option. If or rather when you break it off, you are screwed - and NOT unscrewed!
Soak in penetrating oil.
Latest thing I heard was that 50-50 acetone and ATF is the best penetrant going. We did a little test and it seems to be true. Need more experience with this one.
Tap it on the end a few times to help jostle it loose so the penetrant can soak in, wait a day or so.
Try to unscrew it with pliers. Don't try so much you remove the protruding part.
Sometimes heating the protruding end as hot as possible and letting cool breaks the lock on these - worth a try.
If it won't unscrew, drill a hole in a piece of steel (or a right sized nut) that just fits over the busted stud. Weld the stud to the steel, let cool, and unscrew.
If that doesn't do it, you are better off drilling it carefully on center and fitting a helicoil if necessary than you are busting an EZ out in there.
|Any chance you listened to "Car Talk" a couple weeks ago?? Great advice given there. Try lots of penetrating oil, see if you could grab the stub with vice-grips, or saw a screwdriver slot in it and try unscrewing. If that fails, then the easy-out. Just don't break it off like the caller did. George|
|I would recommend one other alternative before you go try to remove this with a pliers or a vice grip. If you round off what is left, your only option is to drill it.|
Sears sells a bolt extractor that is built to grip on what you have left and allows you to use a ratchet to twist the bolt out.
I have had bad luck with pliers and great luck with the extractors. Do soak as stated in the above.
Go to sears and ask for a
|Try using Loctite Freeze & Release Penetrating Oil.http://loctitefreezeandrelease.com/aaaa.htm|
|A trick that I learned about and have used on broken screws and bolts in fuel pumps is to heat the extended piece of the bolt and the surrounding area as hot as you can get it with a propane torch, then touch some candle wax to the junction of the bolt and the material it is in, let everything cool a bit and then repeat the process. As the surrounding area cools, it will draw the wax into the junction and will usually allow you to back the bolt right out. The problem you have is the large lump of metal called a head, that will sink away the heat from a propane torch, but it is worth a try (birthday cake candles work great for this). Whatever you do, be patient and work slowly. If something doesn't work, back off and try something else. Trying to force the issue only brakes more things off and ultimately makes it worse in the long run. Cheers - Dave|
|By all means, try penetrant and vicegrips, resort to heat if need be, but EZ outs are one of last resorts.|
I have the great displeasure of removing lots of broken bolts & taps in our area, since I have an EDM (Electric Discharge Machine)... one of the very last resorts in your case since the engine would need to be yanked!
Like FR suggests, I(as a welder/welding engineer)often weld a washer onto the broken bolt. If it doesn't spin off freely (it happens once and a while), I'll plugweld (weld inside) a large nut over the washer, then let it all cool. Not only does it give you something larger to grab, the intense heat on the bolt can force it to expand and yield within the confines of the cooler female thread, to a slightly reduced diameter.
While we're on the subject, what works great in freeing up rusted nuts (and avoiding broken studs in the first place) is heat the nut red hot and immediately spray with water. You might be surprised at what a difference the quench makes! It sure beats breaking off exhaust studs, then worrying about how to extract the remainder afterwards.
Talk to Bob Wagner at Atlanta Imported Auto Parts.
He fixed two studs like that for me on my XPEG engine.
|Thanks so much for the responses. I have removed thepaint from the stud and the block in the area and have heated that with my MAP gas torch - I have also sprayed with PB blaster and am letting that soak. i purchased a stud extractor and hope I will have enough to grip on to.|
No EZ outs! Thanks for the advice - I will let you know how things progress.
Send good thoughts to Athens, GA!
|J. W. Delk|
|For sure soak it in penetrating oil over a couple of days|
soaking ever 12 hours. Heating the area around the stud
while trying to cold soak the stud helps. Vice-grips work great if there is enough stud to grip or welding a nut to the stud. I have found on more than one occasion
tightening a small amount first can help, I know it sounds odd.
|Heating the block or any large casting is hopeless, and v bad for the metal if you do manage it. Heating the stud, especially one sticking out, is much more feasible. The expansion of the stud in the cold hole squeezes the crap between the stud and hole, and even the stud metal if you get it hot enough. Then once it cools the stud will be loose. Trick is especially good if it's a stud in a flange where you can drill a hole right through the stud. You can then heat the stud near to melting with an oxy-acet torch, flame through the hole, and it will be rattly loose when it cools. Same thing happens to some extent when you electric weld a nut on.|
|I agree with FRM,,, we did this a loooong time ago on a broken stud on a Jeep I drove in Vietnam,,, we welded a nut on it in antisapation of putting a wrench on it to remove it. The arc welding made the stud "rattly loose" and it was removed by hand without the need of a wrench!|
|Just throwing out an idea (I've learned a lot from this thread)...|
In the past, I've had really good luck with left handed drill bits (the Irwin set I just bought is still USA made). I use a center punch to keep the drill in the center of the broken stud to avoid thread damage and slight jolt also helps break the bond. Then use a low RPM drill in reverse. Usually the drilling alone will back it out. I got my Irwin set locally but Amazon and others have them if you just search for "left hand drill bit." Just two weeks ago, I was changing the rotors on our daily driver Accord and had to use this very easy method to remove the 2 counter sunk screws that hold the rotor to the hub. Good luck, Jeff.
|"birthday cake candles" !!! |
Never heard that one ...almost wish I had a broken stud to try it.....well, maybe not.
Learn so many things from this BBS.
Thanks "Wooden Dave"
|Dave D, many years ago a machinest taught me the candle trick as well. I once had not only an eaze-out broke in a bolt hole but a drill bit as well. After dulling about every drill bit I had I got on the internet and found a bit speciality site and called the guy and told him I needed a bit from hell. That one bit was $50.00 but it went through all that mess like it was butter. Expensive lesson but I will never break off another eaze-out again.|
This thread was discussed between 31/01/2010 and 03/02/2010
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