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MG TD TF 1500 - Clutch issue with Hygear 5 speed

I installed a new HyGear 5 speed a few months ago. It is the "new" version that does not require the engine to be moved forward ('50 TD). All 5 gears are full syncro. It is wonderful on the open road! However it is difficult to get into 1st and 2nd gear about 50% of the time! Once in gear, it goes perfectly!

I have the old cable linkage on the bottom and a new Moss adjustable rod on the top. My free play at the pedal is exactly 3/4" and 1 1/4" at "H" on the cable (see WSM) per WSM specs. I've tried deliberately adjusting both out of specs in both directions to no avail. HyGear has sent me an extension to the shifter to give me more leverage going into gear but this did not help either. All clutch components are brand new with the conversion kit. There is zero wear.

Now for my question. The clutch lever that goes on the shaft in the bell housing (Moss 190-370) moves about 1 to 1.5" from it's rest vertical position when the clutch pedal is fully depressed. It this enough? Logic would dictate that perhaps this is not enough causing the release bearing to not be making full contact with the pressure plate which would cause difficulty getting into lower gears. I could increase the length of my adjustable top rod but that is impossible without somehow "pre-compressing" the lever which would quickly wear out the release bearing! That rod is 13" which is the standard length I've read.

Would anyone be willing to climb underneath their car and have someone push the clutch pedal so you could measure how much the lever moves at the bell? Hopefully someone with a lift! I know this is a greasy nasty job but this measurement or any advice would be appreciate!

I'm hoping I didn't get a bad set of syrcho's in my Kit! The tranny is freshly restored by HiGear and they stand by their warranty but replacing it a 2nd time is a job I can't envision is this lifetime!

Ed
efh Haskell

Ed. I have a Hi Gear 5 speed conversion as well (the old version). It works very well but I also find it takes a hard push to get into 1st or second gear most of the time, though it is improving with use. Maybe its the clutch adjustment, I am not sure, but as these are all reconditioned gear boxes I have put it down to tight bearings somewhere. I remember that new gearboxes were sometimes the same (back in the day).
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave, how many miles on it since you installed it? Mine has just a few hundred.
efh Haskell

How much free play do you see in the lever on the gear box with your present setting? and will you be in Gunnison Saturday?
L E D LaVerne

LaVerne, if you mean the front clutch lever (190-400), when the clutch pedal is pressed it moves about 2" from front to rear. It is not in a vertical position as shown in the O'Conner conversion photo's I've seen. But it does swing equal distance between it's center when pedal is pressed. As I remember it "starting position" is fixed on it's bearing and cannot be changed. Same with the rear lever.

And yes, I will be there Saturday! I would love to drive it with you in the car and show you the problem! At least I'm not the only one with the problem (see Dave's response above).
Ed
efh Haskell

190-500....the lever on the gear box...how much back and forth there?
L E D LaVerne

190-500 is the pedal shaft in the dreaded pedal box. It's not on the gearbox?? I replaced new when I did the resto 5 years ago. It s/b like new but I'll check it tomorrow for wiggle.
efh Haskell

My bad...the 190-370...item 49
L E D LaVerne

I'm guessing about 1.5" from pedal back to full pedal down (see 3rd paragraph above). Fact is pressure place must be getting fully depressed or the car would stall when stopped with the clutch in. And it doesn't do that at all!
efh Haskell

midget>I measured 38mm full pedal travel which corresponds to the 1.5" you have measured. With my adjustable rose jointed clutch linkage kits I recommend setting the front sump lever to 7 O'clock (+15

Declan Burns

I've done 500miles with mine now. Still tight, but better than it was.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I used a kit from Andy King to convert my TF to 5 speeds and am not familiar with the one from HiGear. Do they provide bits and pieced to move the gear leaver back to its original position? I sawed the Ford leaver off, just under the counter weight, and fitted a plate to move it rearwards by about two inches. A friend who has also used the Andy King kit in his TD is using the original, unmodified, Ford item. There is more room under the dash in the TD. The throw needed on my leaver is more than in the TD but is still fine. I just wonder if with the HiGear kit the leaver just needs to be pushed a little further?

Cheers

Jan T
J Targosz

Hi Gear provide everything down to the last nut and bolt. They provide a gear lever modified in exactly the same way that you have done, complete with the knob and gear position markings.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Declan, thanks for confirming I'm not the only one with this problem! My measurements are exactly the same as in your post! And my front sump lever is pointed exactly at 7:00! I thought this odd because the instructions that come with the Moss upper rod show it vertical, as does your picture. But that's impossible! 7:00 is just how it is and cannot be changed. By the way what is "your rose jointed clutch linkage kits"?

Jan, that's an interesting theory that the shift lever itself might be the problem. But, like Dave says above, there is no adjustment on it. You just bolt it on and you're done. Peter from HyGear has never mentioned this but I'll ask him if it could be the case.

Dave, we've both got about the same mileage on it. Seems odd it could "get better with age"? Trannys usually get worse with age, not better...hum?

Ed
efh Haskell

Ed,
I recommend that it be at 7 O'clock (15) when the clutch pedal is up and 5 O'clock (-15)when the pedal is down. This is actually a distance of 35.2mm at the radius from the fulcrum point-see CAD drawing from my rose jointed clutch linkage below. It should actually be slightly more to meet the total pedal travel which is 38mm.
The drawing above is a drawing of my clutch kit which eliminates play from the linkage.
The gaiter kit seals off the pedal box.
Regards
Declan

Declan Burns

Here's a photo

Declan Burns

A lot of gearboxes used to require a firm hand to shift when new, some still do. With use the gearchange becomes easier. That's what I mean by better than it was.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Just in case anyone else is reading this with a RHD car - the lever should be At 5 o'clock with the clutch pedal up, and 7 o'clock when its down.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I recall a local club member had this problem a while ago. Suggest calling Jim Hall (google him and HyGear) near Jacksonville, he is the local dealer for those. He may have advice. George
George Butz

Gents,
Just a comment. In the 1970s I owned both a new 240Z and a Mercury Capri. Both were four speeds and both were hard to shift into first and second. If you did a lot of city driving your hand would get sore from repeated shifts. As daily drivers it went away in the first year as I remember.


Jim haskins 1953 TD
J M Haskins

Two Hi-Gear'd TC's and both are a bit stiff to get into 1st and 2nd. Don't think it's a problem.

Gene
Gene Gillam

Thanks all for the feedback. Makes me feel a little better!
efh Haskell

I have a Moss rebuild of this transmission and its been stiff to get into first since 2009--over 15,000 miles. Very annoying that it didn't get better, and now I'm getting a little gear clash occasionally going from first to second.

I've driven two HiGear rebuilds and both were like butter going into first and second. I'm thinking its the rebuild quality/parts showing when its stiff into first or second.

I'm in the process of replacing the Moss rebuild with one I've ordered through HiGear and hoping for a significant improvement.

Charlie
Charlie Adams

There are quite a number of companies rebuilding these gearboxes regularly, and a lot more that do the occasional one. Mine came from the same outfit that Hi- Gear uses. Moss will also buy them in, but whether its from the same source I don't know, though seems unlikely.
Dave H
Dave Hill

There quite a number of Companies rebuilding these gearboxes regularly, and a lot more that do the occasional one. Mine came from the same outfit that Hi- Gear uses. Moss will also buy them in, but whether its from the same source I don't know, though seems unlikely.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Charlie, the one Moss sells IS the HyGear! Are you ordering the new version or the one where the engine must be moved forward?
efh Haskell

My understanding from Peter Gamble is that he makes the kit which he supplies to Moss, but that he and Moss use different transmission rebuilders. I'm going to order the new version for my TF so the engine will stay in place.
Charlie
Charlie Adams

This thread was discussed between 18/08/2016 and 23/08/2016

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