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MG TD TF 1500 - Crane Cam
|I am rebuilding a 1952 TD and have heard alot of good things about the Wide Lobe Crane Cam and want to use one. The problem is that Crane has been telling me every two weeks since Jan. that they would have them in stock soon now it is out to April which I don't believe. If anyone has one I would be interested in purchasing it. Should I just not worry about it and install the Moss unit or does anyone have another suggestion.|
|I am pretty sure the Moss unit is a Crane as well and doubt they have them in stock but could be. |
You need to check into Len's roller cam kit.
|Richard Taylor TD3983|
|Ben - I see nobody has answered you, so I'll jump in. It's all a matter of degrees (literally and figuratively!), and what you want to get out of a cam. Let's put aside a full-race cam, because that is completely impractical on the street, and the so-called 'half-race' cam. Neither will give you any idle or low-end power, and are just plain no fun in a street car.|
The stock .012 cam (168553) is a good compromise of economy and power, without anything blazing or unusual - a good all-round street cam for a driver - I believe that this is pretty much the same as Crane's 340-0002 cam. The Crane 340-0010 cam is a bit more aggressive but is still perfectly streetable, and probably adds 5hp to a stock engine. Crane has gone through significant changes in the past couple of years, and is now being run by an entirely separate crew. I've been variously told that they have a hundred T-type cam blanks, and have been told they have none after the move and shake-up. They don't seem to want to use the blanks to make our cams (if they have them - they are the expensive part of the deal).
My advice is to go to another cam manufacturer/grinder like Delta Cams and see what they have to offer, or will make up. There is also Dean at Effingham Regrinding, both of whom can re-grind your cam if it can be reground. Also, Mick at Cam Techniques in Sarasota, FL has some pretty good grinds for T-types.
Get the spec sheets, see how the grinds compare, talk to the grinders for their recommendations based on your engine, driving style, goals and terrain, then decide. You have lots of choices! Then follow breaking-in techniques for the cams, and decide whether you need to add ZDDP.
And finally, get a set of my brass core plugs for the rebuild!
|I recommend Delta Cams. Just a satisfied customer. I'm going to send them another TD cam core for a regrind. They also resurfaced my lifters.|
|Ben, The Crane cam has a larger diameter for less wear.|
Chase Knight @ Crane has stated " Why buy junk, (refering to a flat lifter cam) when you can buy a Roller cam"
I am the only supplier of T type roller cam kits.
My cam profile designer, D. Bly, was hand picked by Mr. Harvey Crane, many years ago. He now works for my supplier, not Crane.
Tom, I have many different cam profiles.
The company producing my cams, from start to finish, is 1 of only 4 who produce cores for the entire North American market.
Dave is the person @ Cam Techiniques.
Spec. sheets can be misleading.
No ZDDP needed.
A roller cam of the same duration will ALWAYS outperform a flat lifter cam!
914 420 8699
|Sorry, Len - I should have mentioned your roller cam as being superior in every way.|
|Ben -- I have no connection to/with Crane cams but I am a satisfied customer. I have Crane 340-0002 in my TD and a 340-0010 in my TF1500. Both are giving good performance. But I am in the process of collecting parts for a rebuild of a 1500 engine and one of the things I have done is purchase one of Len's roller tappet cams for that engine. A few other goodies too.|
The only thing I would say is be very careful of the 340-0010 cam. The lift is so high that there is danger of the valve springs becoming coil bound. Which means compressed to the point that the coils are touching each other when the valve is wide open. So far I have had no trouble but my machinest warned me about it when he finished his work. To correct the problem the valve spring seat in the head could be lowered or special spring retainers could be made for the top of the valve stem.
Good luck with your choices. I have just given you the total of my experience selecting cams etc.
Well not quite all. I once had a Ford flat head with an Isky Track grind cam, that was a real terror at the stop light Grand Prix. But it sounded like a logging chain in a 55 gal oil drum, noisy doesn't really describe it.
|Thank you all for the input. I am doing a stock motor and understand the pros and cons of the different cam choices. Just frustrated with Crane as they just keep sliding the re-stock date. So everything is on hold with the motor.Plus the Crane cam would be about $75.00 less than the generic Moss standard cam.I understand Lens cams are great but don't have that in the budget and this car will have limited use. Might take a closer look at regrinding what I have and move on.|
|Are there problems with what you have, or are you just being careful? There is nothing wrong with a used cam if there is no pitting and the lobes are still intact. And a re-grind is perfectly fine, as long as there is enough meat in the lobes to permit another grind. Delta Cam does excellent re-grinds.|
|With all that good advice given, Moss does advertise their cams are Crane with oversize base circle and tapered lobes. I believe they also sell a standard cam from,(???). PJ|
And yes, roller cams are hard to beat. PJ
|If I was building a motor now, I would go with Len's cam. Totally custom grind, and none of the rampant tappet failure problems, etc. George|
|Bob J. |
What do you mean by "be very careful" with the 340-0010 cam? I have that cam in my TF. Do you mean, be careful with accurate valve clearance settings? Or, avoiding high revs? I have had no problem since the rebuild in '03, but do not want any either.
|Len, What is the cost of your cam kit and delivery time.|
|Ben, please E mail, or call me for more information.|
Thanks,to Richard, Tom, Bob, & George,for your support.
914 420 8699
|Tom Norby -- By being careful I meant to check the lift and clearance between coils of the springs at max valve opening. Mine are very close too coil binding but do not seem to bind. If they were to bind then I would have recessed the head where the springs seat and maybe had the spring discs at the top of the springs custom made to provide a bit more coil-to-coil clearance.|
All in all I am very happy with the 340-0010 cam. Just wish I had it in the TD instead of the 340-0002.
In either event I use STP with every oil change to be sure to have enough ZDDP for the flat tappet cam followers.
In the next iteration of the spare 1500 engine I am going to install Len's roller tappet kit. Also give it a Manley Ford exhaust header, and pertronix ignition. Should be a real winner.
|A few weeks ago, Moss had the standard grind Crane cam in stock. I bought one through LBCarCo during their sale. Decided on the standard cam to preserve low end torque. During the sale it was competitively priced. |
|Doesn't one have to buy the Crane followers as well? or will standard lifters work with the wider Crane cam?|
|Gordon A Clark|
|I have a Torque grind for low end torque.|
|Gord - it's a question of whether the stock lifters' oil holes will be exposed with the modified Crane cam, to permit sufficient oil flow down from the rocker gear to the cam for proper lubrication. I have grooved the stock lifter from the bottom oil hole to the end of the tappet, and have had no problems.|
Also remember that if your cylinder head has been re-surfaced or if the compression ratio has been raised by removing head material, that shorter pushrods will usually be needed with the Crane cam. They used to be available from Moss, but I believe no longer. Moss also used to recommend shims under the rocker pedestals, but that upsets rocker geometry so much that problems will certainly become clear! There is no faster or easier way to bend a pushrod than using one that is too long!
Manley Ford just announced on the MG Vintage Racer's list that someone ("Bob") from Crane called him and told him that they just got the material in for grinding T-type cams.
He says he thinks they are making stock grinds for Moss, but that performance grinds are available, as well.
This thread was discussed between 18/03/2011 and 24/03/2011
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