MG TD TF 1500 Crank hole misalignment BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net

MG TD TF 1500 - Crank hole misalignment

I hope the enclosed image is clear enough. If not let me know and I will publish them separately. It is obvious that this car has been in an accident at some point. The hole in the radiator mounting bracket shows an interference when trying to insert the crank. The crank hits the housing for the steering rack. It seems to me that the steering rack has been shimmed up enough to cause this interference. The engine mounts are new and seem to be in the right position. Although it is pretty ratty looking the radiator mounting bracket is level and straight across the top. I am thinking about removing the shims and see if I get enough clearance. There should be enough play in the tie rods. Any ideas or suggestions are most welcome. TIA, Mort

Mort TD 1851

Mort, I see the radiator mount is pretty hacked up. Have you checked to make sure it isn't on backwards? Now's the time! I take it you can set it down on the springs & wheels, and I'm guessing there's a lot of weight off of it at the moment, but here goes... If you air your tires to your ideal pressures, with wheels straight, check your control arms, steering arms, axles, etc. aren't bent up, the upper & lower control arms are on symmetrical angles* left and right sides, then the tie rods ought to be on identical angles*, also (*with respect to the horizontal). That is what would tell you if that one thick shim is really necessary. The optimum steering is when the control arms and tie rods are as parallel as possible, otherwise, "bump steering." On 2 TDs here, the steel front engine mounts have yielded and dropped, together with the thin steel flanges bending down on the rubber supports. Underengineered! Maybe it is an optical illusion from such a small picture (I did try blowing the photos up), but it looks like your steel flange is bowed down pretty good in img0225. Even going to a new rubber support, I fabricated a 1/2" aluminum bar to shim the engine back up to line up for the hand crank and to stiffen the thin flange on the rubber mount (see picture). HOWEVER, you can spend days tweaking the engine, radiator support and rack & pinion, and then discover the radiator grille is way off and the bumper doesn't line up either. If you really intend to utilize the crank, you will want to fit the radiator and bumper on temporarily to see the bigger picture.

Jim Northrup

Jim N. I almost hate to ask, but is your radiator support crossmember not on backwards? It appears from your image that the rad bolt holes are offset towards the front of the car rather than the engine side, although difficult to measure with the wrench obscuring the view, and the flange at the front seems too wide. Also the eye opening for the crank should extend below the flange, as per my image. It seems that this is a common assembly error on many cars. Respectfully Phil

Phil Atrill

Thank you all for those quick and varied suggestions. It gives me several things to examine. The car is currently on jack stands while I replace the tranny, wiring, floorboards etc. When it is down I will look at the engine mount and front shims and trueness of the frame. Regardless of the alignment of the radiator and the engine I think the first problem to resolve is the relationship between the steering sleeve and the radiator bracket. I am including image 213 for clarity. Jim Northrup, thanks for that image and the suggestions. I will follow up when it's on the ground. Granted that the frame may be distorted but the radiator bracket is straight and level on top and is the same backward or forward. I hope I can remove some shims and create enough clearance for the crank. Then I will look at the engine and the radiator.

Mort TD 1851

Phil and Jim Northrup, I took a second look at the radiator support. The radiator mounting holes are offset. Which is correct? Does it matter? The lower picture is the back of my support. It does look like my support is on backwards. Turning it around would move the radiator closer to the thermostat and reduce some of that annoying offset in that short 2 1/4" hose. However, would the hood still fit?

Mort TD 1851

If the TF and TD are the same, the rad bracket is mounted backwards. Mine was mounted the same way, which I had to change. I wonder why someone cut out the two knotches? PJ

Paul J

I forgot a photo.

Jim Merz TD20660 RHD

Mort, After double checking your pictures, I suggest you don't reverse it! Our 3 TDs have that orientation. Reversing the support will move the radiator a good inch closer to the firewall and the bonnet won't fit. By the way, posting multiple photos isn't all that desirable since I usually have to downsize a single shot to upload. Detail suffers. One way to pack more pictures together is copy and paste them into a single picture in decent Paint program (PaintshopPro for instance, Microoft Paint isn't up to it).

Jim Northrup

I examined our '51 and the engine is too low to engage the handcrank. Like the human anatomy, the front mount sags with age. On our '50, after adding 1/2" aluminum shim to engine mount to line up with handcrank, I wound up shimming the rack/pinion up 3/16" (in picture) for a touch of clearance between steering column and oil pump. A 1/4" - 3/8" shim on the engine mount may have been a good compromise. It would be interesting to see the factory installation order. I'm willing to bet the radiator and supports were preassembled before the bracket is bolted to frame during chassis build, and then steering came after the radiator. Not going to lose any sleep over it.

Jim Northrup

Mines the opposite of Jim Northrup's, and everything fits fine, thanks. Dave

Dave Braun

This thread was discussed between 28/03/2011 and 31/03/2011

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