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MG TD TF 1500 Cross Plies BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - Cross Plies
| My TD has Michelin ZX tyres I am finding the steering at low speeds very heavy. Am thinking of going back to cross plies. Has anyone done it and how much does it ease low speed steering. |
| J Cowley |
| J. Cowley I also run ZXz 165Rs on my 1953 TD. The steering at low speeds seems fine. They do respond a little slower. I like to think that you need to put some force into them to get a response back. They ride so much better than the crossplies I think that its worth the trade off. BTY what are you using for lube in the rack? Tom Manion |
| T. L. Manion Thomas |
| What are you running for tire pressure ?? I had Mich ZX's and they never gave the Heavy Steering symptoms,,,, SPW |
| Steve Wincze |
| Using Hypoid 90 for the steering box. Tyre pressure 24lbs. Is the ride much worse on cross plies? |
| John Cowley |
| Try 32 pounds in your tires - it'll make a lot of difference. Dave |
| Dave Jorgensen |
| As a rule of thumb, never run less than 30 pounds in radial tyres. I can remember this from the time radials were introduced. Cheers, Paul. |
| Paul van Gool |
| 32 to 34 pounds in mine |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| "Is the ride much worse on cross plies?" It depends, if you like the feel of being jerked from one side to the other by every discontinuity in the road, then the cross plies will suite you fine. I couldn't wait for the cross plies that I put on in the interest of originality after restoring the car so I could get back to radials. I run 24 psi in the tires of our TD and even my wife doesn't find it to be heavy steering. Cheers - Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Heavy steering compared to what? Modern cars have had power steering for 20-30 years. Our cars have armstrong steering. You can't compare the two. Cars without power steering with half worn tyres will always be heavier but will transmit feel through the steering wheel. That's the tradeoff. Enjoy it. Cheers, Paul. |
| Paul van Gool |
| If I put 32 lbs pressure in my tires, my 12 year old restoration would be a rattaling wreck. I feel that pressures as high as that, will damage not only the car, but can also do damage to the tire. Hitting a stone or a pot hole with such pressure in the tire could damage the belt as well as transferring a lot of shock into the frame and body. After the time and expense of a full restoration, I am in preservation mode and do what I can to keep the car from taking any unnecessary punishment. I still drive it as it was meant to be driven, but with a "little" more caution under some road conditions. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| George... My radials call for 30 pounds... less and they look flat and was afraid I would get pretty weird 'wear'? The ride is as I remember my MGA when I was younger, and yes, its a bit 'hard', but the body/suspension seems fine (and it has not been rebuilt since '69). |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| Hi Gordon, I have seen that tire pressure on the Michelins and I believe it refers to the maximum pressure and not the operating pressure. I am presently running Dunlop Sport Radials, which have a maximum pressure of 35 lbs, although I only have 22 rear and 24 front for reasons previously stated. I have found that with pressures in the range of 30 to 32 lbs. the car will start to lose grip under hard cornering and braking. I speak from my own experience and reflection. It is what makes this thread so valuable, when we can voice our thoughts, and give others another point of view. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| Hmmm... when we used to race (gymkanas)... we put 40 pounds in, then reduced it back for the road! Maybe I will drop 5 pounds and see what it does...? |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| And maybe i will let some air out of the tires as well?????????? |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| Hi Gordon, Gymkanas, now there is where you heed high pressure in the tires so you can make use of that wonderful hand brake to bring the back end around. I would go up to as high as 36 lbs in the back tires so they would break loose in the tight turns. Anything higher and I would lose the brakes. Did you ever do the Rattle Snake Hill Climb at Milton? I have heard that the road is paved now. What a shame, but I guess that is what is called progress. GeorgeRaham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| Am trying to find a location in Niagara to organize a 'hill climb' of some kind for our club... looking for a field actually to do 'trials'... think it would be good fun for the club? |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| Gordon, We may be off the subject of the original thread, but your idea of a "trials" sounds like a lot of fun. We used to a use field north of Toronto shaped like a bowl. This allowed the trial sections to run up the sides of the hill and gave the spectators a good view of the event. A "bowl" may be hard to find but some elevation change can make the trials a lot more interesting for both the competitors and the spectators. Happy Hunting. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| I have been running my TF on 5.50 bias ply tyres for the last 10 years, some 20,000 miles and I found that they ride quite well with 17 psi. they don't weave all over the road even at 50 mph. I actually like bias ply tyres because the are predictable when cornered hard, not like a radial which will just break away in an instant. I have driven the TF on a local race car and found it to be real fun drifting the corners. One of our MG members (Doug Butcher) here in MI is a foremost tyre engineer and compound consultatnt to the industry. He has presented technical papers to Intl. SAE on tyre design and construction. He does NOT recomend radials on T-cars as the allow much higher loads to be transmitted to the suspension components and wheels than they were ever designed for. Suspensions are designed from ther typre up. I had the opportunity to ride in a radial equipped TC which the owner thrashed around a race course with the result that the rear axle was displaced to a point where the universal was pounding on the drive tunnel. Later in the day he snapped about 12 spokes out of a rear wheel and damaged the car. FYI, all race car tyres are bias ply, F-1, NASCAR, Indy, for a reason they have "feel". |
| colin stafford |
| Colin, Do a search for NASCAR tires,,,,guess what,,,tey are radials !!! |
| Steve Wincze |
| Also, Radial tires on F-! cars were introduced for the first time in 1977,,,, |
| Steve Wincze |
| I drove my car for 20 years on bias plies, and when the restoration is done, I'll be rolling out in 165 R15 Metric Radials. I'm looking forward to the ride, and seeing how much if any the charactor of the car changes. Although, I can't imagine thrashing the car about, I do think I'll fondly miss the four wheel drift I was able to induce on the bias plies. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| The radial tires are certainly different to the bias ply tires. When I had wore out the original Dunlops, I put on a set of Michelins and have enjoyed nothing else until the car was back on the road in 1996. I am back to the Dunlops but they are radials and would not consider the bias plies after my experience with the radials. Once you got used to them, and how much pressure you could apply to the tire before they released, you could then "drive" them without a slide, which is the way I preffered. Only through experimentation with tire pressures, could you find out when you were near that point. It was almost as much fun as the race itself. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| Hi Dave, Until I got my TD on radials, I never really felt comfortable sliding the car, as I never felt in control of where the car might end up. On the radials with proper tire pressures that allow the tire to grip, I felt more in control of where the car was going and where in might end up. Under normal road conditions, I am sure you will be more than pleased with the grip, and I would recommend starting 24 rear and 26 front. You might find these a little on the hard side but when out on the road , it is easier to let air out, then put it in. I hope you get the car on the road this season. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| And everything changes when you fill with nitrogen. |
| John Redman |
| Thanks for the tips, George. I'll start at your recommendations, or perhaps a little above. John, how so with the Nitrogen? The tire store offered nitrogen for no charge. I thought it had something to do with decreasing the deterioration of the rubber, not the ride. warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Oh my God... don't get into the Nitrogen vs Air debate... oh no... we are, I can feel it coming...oh no....arrrgghhhhhhhhhh! We need a 'diversion'.... hey.... silicone brake fluid is soooo much better then the old stuff.....!!!!! Positive grounding makes your points last longer....!!!!! |
| gblawson(gordon) |
| Gordon, Not from me Gordon, but I do like the silicone brake fluid and I've been a negie grd for a long time. |
| G. L. Raham |
| Problem? Is this a problem? Use of nitrogen results in less pressure differences between hot and cold, that's all it does. As far as the low pressure saving the tires, not - I repeat NOT - in bicycles. I run 120 pounds and have excellent life, cornering, braking and puncture resistance. This is the experience of every racer I know. I do not race cars but I don't see why low pressure could help. |
| John Redman |
| John, When I ride my road bike, I too put 110/120 lbs. in my tires. When I ride my mountain bike, I put 50/60 lbs. in my tires. These are the pressures that work best for the bikes and the conditions they are run under. When I drive my car, I use pressures that best suit the conditions I am driving under. I think we have an apple and orange situation here. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
| George, Squishiness on the road seems a bad idea for handling and tire life no matter what the vehicle and I cannot even consider running 17 pounds - absolute death to sidewalls. The heat buildup alone - egad! As far as low pressure having a positive aspect when hitting bumps/ruts, forget about it. The more the belt flexes the more it is damaged/aged. I run recommended pressures/nitrogen on all my cars and would put nitrogen in my bike tires if it were reasonable to do so (I owned a Pep Boys store). BTW, I just moved to the Catskills and am doing about 500 miles per week ----> this way and 4 miles // that way (on the bike, a 1979 Motobecane Le Champion). I bet Alberta is fantastic. John |
| John Redman |
| John, I could not agree more with you about "squishiness on the road". I could not drive a car under those conditions. The last time I had 18 lbs. in my rear tires was in 1956 and we were expecting our first child. Over the years I have the opportunity to experiment with the tire pressures that work for my driving style and type of car, under many different types of competition from low speed mud trials to out right racing. I have almost destroyed a good set of Michelins at one race, due to high pressure in the tires. You learn fast when that happens. Taking into account the weight of our cars. the speed they are capable of, and after driving it for 57 years, I feel I have an understanding of what "works" under the many demands I have made on it . You are absolutely right about Alberta. George Raham TD 4224 |
| G. L. Raham |
This thread was discussed between 26/05/2008 and 03/06/2008
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