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MG TD TF 1500 - Dual Feed from TF Fuel Tank
|It's Spring, and giving the TF a serious look at the outside world terrified the petrol pump. It sulked, and as a reward will be retired and a new electronic version given pride of place.|
However whilst poking about under the rear end to give the pump a thump, noticed that the petrol tank has two outlets, just lke my TDII, but the left hand one is blanked off.
So, I'm asking all if this is this standard or is this a tank left over from TD production?
|The TD has two openings...one for the fuel line and one drain in the bottom...I thought the MKII used the drain as its second fuel line connection?|
|That's correct Gordon.|
But I was surprised to see the two outlets, only one is connected to the pump (via a filter) the other is blanked off, no drain facility in the second hole.
It makes no economic sense to me to open a second hole and then close it as a part of the production run, so wondered if it was a left over from MkII production, and if other late-ish 1500 TF's had the same feature.
Any enlightenment would be most welcome.
|Ian - |
That second fitting is the drain - you simply remove the plug to drain. This is standard on the TD and TF - I imagine TC as well. On the MKII they just used that drain opening to feed the second pump - as Gordon mentions.
You should have one fuel feed connection and one drain opening with a brass plug and washer.
|Thanks, Jeff, that makes sense to me now. |
It looks as though my drain plug has been brazed in. Strange people, PO's!
One thing I noticed in your post:
"connected to the pump (via a filter)"
I'm sure I will be corrected if wrong, however I do believe I have read on this post before that "a filter" should only be installed "after the pump".
As I recall the reason for this is that if the filter get's clouged the pump will run dry and fry out.
(Maybe the reason for the failure?)
There is a filter in the tank (or should be) that will remove anything large enough to clough the pump.
You want any other filter "after" the pump to keep smaller particles from cloughing the jets in your carbs.
I run a "clear" NAPA one so I can inspect it offten.
PO's yep ...I believe this was why my pump went out shortly after I purchased my TF. From the info on this BBS I have been running filter "after" the pump for about 10 years now.
David TF 1500 #7427
|I can tell you from bitter experience that the TD and TF tanks are different sizes...but the bottom connections are similar.|
Terry in Oakland
That is really useful. The current layout is
tank -> filter -> pump - > carbs.
The filter is clear and I can see a significant amount of dark coloured water already in it, so the new pump will be a good time for a clean up and to reset the arrangement.
As always, a valuable conversation with added fibre!
|Ian - the threaded portion of the drain opening is actually brazed to the tank - so this may be what you are seeing. If you clean this area off well with some cleaner, you should see that the brass plug is actually screwed into that brazed piece. There should be a thick fibre washer - usually red or orange - under the blanking plug.|
|Ian - dave S is quoting some of the information in my web site. See the article, SU fuel pumps, Facts and Myths on my web site at: http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/ Dave's memory is probably begeingn to fail due to old age ;-) the real reason that a clogged filter on the inlet side of the pump is that it causes the pump to stall in a current on condition and leaving the power connected (such as during troubleshooting) this situation can result in the swamping resistor burning out, which in turn causes the points to burn prematurely. Cheers - Dave D|
PS to Dave S. - Sorry, couldn't pass up an opportunity like that.
|I knew I read it somewhere from someone here far wiser than myself about these LBC's! Dave's right the memory is failing ...but at least I did remember the procedure learned from him ...just not the reason or where from! |
For sure Dave B's excellent info is where I picked this up. It's a good read. (as is all the info from Mr. D) I did a "refresh" this morning. The main line that stuck in what is left of my brain cells, (the 60's were hard on them LOL) :
"The above description is for a points style fuel pump. The results are even more severe if you have an all electronic pump."
I really have to question the need for a second, complete fuel delivery system
The Mark II was originally homologated for Group II racing and the second pump was provided to ensure good flow and delivery at sustained high revs.
If you're skitterish about a fuel pump failing (IMHO, justifiable), then just install a second pump with a manual or a remote by-pass cross-over valve and a switch. Running an entire second line to me, seems excessive.
Even if you don't provide a cross-over valve, and the original pump should fail, it doesn't matter, as all SU pumps are fitted with a check valve and you won't run fuel backwards. But disconnecting a second or original pump, will be a lot safer electrically.
You are not the first to question this, and a second pump in parallel, is quite common.
|Gordon A Clark|
|Fear Not Godon!!|
I have two MGs, a TD MkII and a TF1500.
Whilst under the TF, working out just why its fuel pump was misbehaving, I noticed the two exits from the TF's fuel tank, but only one feed pipe to the HP pump under the rear O/S (in the UK) wheel arch. The other exit appeared to brazed closed.
This reminded me that the tank on the MkII TD has two exits and two feeds to the LP fuel pumps on the bulkhead.
It made me wonder whether the tank on this TF's tank was a left over from TDII production and therefore an oddball, or the two exits were the normal situation. The answers helped explain that on all but the MkII one was for the feed and the other a drain plug.
I am now going to replace the TF HP fuel pump with an electonic version (as a one-for-one swap out), and move the filter downstream from the pump. No pump doubling up planned.
So thank you for the warning, but I wasn't going there. Hopefully this w/e will be spent with a grease mark on the nose, aching arms and a successful transplant.
|Hey Ian...Depending on where your pump is. As I recall mine was fairly easy to access from the boot access pannel for the rear end in the TF. At least it was untill I replaced my boot wood with a single piece for the floor. At that time I moved it but have easy access if I remove a wheel now. You do know the TF has 3 piece construction for the boot floor ...right?|
|Just to thank you all for your thoughts and help.|
I fitted the new electronic pump yesterday, removed the side screen storage floor panel, which improved access and light and still spent hours on my back groping. The PO obviously had a penchant for thick walled rubber tube for the difficult bits (which I don't like and will replace, the fire risk worries).
I learned that petrol dripped in the eye HURTS, but my wife can now truly call me a petrolhead.
Finishing touches to do today, then off for a blast (taking the mobile pone, my confidence isn't infinite).
This thread was discussed between 27/04/2010 and 02/05/2010
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