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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Dunlop Tyre Valve Removal Tool

The final item required to complete my original tool kit is a Dunlop Tyre Valve Removal Tool (as I've just acquired the SK.1118Z). See pic of the Dunlop tool. I believe this is an original item as the repros have a cross hatched grip. Anyone have one they are willing to part with? Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter,
I never knew that these existed!!(made by Dunlop)

Steve
Steve Wincze

easy bit to lose, I wondered when I found mine if it was supposed to have a ring or arm fitted.

mog

Mog, I've been chasing one of these for months & have been outbid on Ebay 3 times now with the winner paying an absurd sum for such a tiny item. I also ask at country garages if they maybe have one lying around in a drawer, with no luck so far. Yours is original & it's great to see another. The only one I've actually held belonged to an original TF kit & it was just the tool as pictured. Maybe the hole was to enable a small "Tommy bar" to be used? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Doesn't seen to be too hard to turn out something nearly identical on a lathe... the spiral would be easy to cut, then just turn down the ends, drill the tip, slot it and cross-drill a hole in the end for the tommy-bar/ring. The stamped letters would be the hardest to duplicate due to the font.
Kevin McLemore

Both the spiral cut & the font made me discount that idea, but if I can't find an original then I guess I have no other choice. I have seen reproductions but not with the spiral. Wouldn't the curve be a pain when applying the font Kevin? Obviously it couldn't be stamped but I had wondered if an engraver would have a program & a machine that could apply a duplicate font to a curved surface? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hmm, you've a point with the engraving angle... Yes, I'd imagine an engraver would be the best way to go. As to the spiral, it's really nothing more than a screw thread, albeit elongated, so that could be done using the lathe's lead screw and properly set up gears.
Kevin McLemore

Peter,
Look up Spiral knurling on Google. There are some images of exactly what is on the tool. Knurling tools are surprisingly cheap on the web but I am not sure which one would produce the correct spiral. The engraving would certainly be difficult, it is probably rolled on.

Another example of why not remanufacture a new part the same as the original rather than near enough is good enough.

Here is a challenge for you Peter, track down the Tiawanese supplier and get them to fix it
Max Irvine

Max. G'day. Why not set me an easy task mate? I think I'll stay focused on the last item needed to completely finish the now upholstered dash ... the dreaded ignition switch. I can't put off taking it apart any longer. Next time I see an original Dunlop job on Ebay I'll buy it even though it'll probably cost me in excess of $40. Your wheel brace looks great with my tool collection. Thanks again. Cheers & Happy New Year!
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Well, I found one of these valve stem removal tools in the tool kit for my 1965 Jaguar sedan, looks the same but is made of hard white plastic. Must be a later version after a bean counter said they could reduce the price in plastic.

And on my MGTD I found a Teclamit black plastic grease gun that apparently came with the car. Most of the ones that I have seen are smaller, grey metal with either a mushroom shaped plunger handle or a loop handle. Both my Morris Minors have mushroom handle ones as well as my Jaguar. Did MG change the type of grease gun they supplied at some point?
John Quilter (TD8986)

Hi John. I'm pretty certain the black Plastigun you refer to is from a TC tool kit. Check out Chris Couper's site under Tools & you'll see it listed in Matthew Majilton's comprehensive grease gun list, complete with pics & the M.G. models they originally belonged to. This seems to be at the cutting edge of info on greasers. I've included this info in a document on TC, TD & TF tools that I'm compiling. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

It is not recorded when the Plastigun gave way to later models. It could have been late TC or early TD.

Matthew.
M Magilton

No argument from me
P Hehir

I have been reading this post with interest.

I have some experience in knurling but usually straight or diamond.

I did some estimating from the picture.
Measuring the inside of my tire valve I get 0.175".
I would assume the part that goes in there is smaller so I say 0.156" (5/32).

I note that the knurled section is a larger diameter. It is necessary that the diameter to be knurled is a multiple, or sub multiple of the pitch of the knurl. Not knowing any dimensions I use 0.250 for this diameter as a start.
I can count about 7 or 8 teeth going from the bottom of the viewable knurl to the top. When viewing a cylinder from a distance about 1/3 Of the surface is visible. Thus there should be 21 to 24 teeth around if the diameter is 1/4" This leads to a tpi of 26.7 to 30.

Now about the angle. If the knurl diameter is 1/4" I estimate the length of the knurl to be 3/4" (more or less, just a WAG.)

1/3 of the distance around is 0.261 and that seems to be the distance one grove travels in the length of 3/4"
This leads to an angle of about 20 degrees. But that number is very Iiffy.
So I look at available knurls.
Say here.
http://specialtytooling.eaglerockonline.com/item/knurls/series-e-no-k5-e-knurls-3-4-x-3-8-x-1-4-/e10-c30-bl50
(These fit my knurl holder.)

read the PDF on the upper right.

http://specialtytooling.eaglerockonline.com/Asset/Knurlcraft---Knurls-Inch---E.pdf

I find a 30 pitch knurl with a 30 degree angle is available.
Also going here;
http://www.accu-trak.com/knurls_inch/kp.html
I find a similar knurl, price around $16 to $20.
I have some of this vendors knurls.

Given some better measurements this might fit.

Now for the "Dunlop" Stamp sets are available from many sources. Mine come from Enco (www.use-enco.com) They are often on sale for $35. Fortunately you can put together DUNLOP from one set.

The stamps are formed on 1/4" square shanks. That would make the length of the word Dunlop just a bit less than 1-1/2". (Guess about 1-3/8).

Stamps are measured by the width of the stamp, not the length. My set is 3/32. I am not sure what the ones shown are.

You would need to make a fixture to hold the stamps so the rod could be rolled under them as pressure from a press is applied from above. The Tommy bar hole could allow torque to be applied with the shaft in a fixture in a press, rocking back and forth as pressure was increased.
The main issues I see in producing some of these in the home shop are;
Is the knurl LH or RH
Is the 30 degree angle of the knurl correct?
Is the length of the Dunlop correct"
The size of the letter stamp.

Just my thoughts on making some with limited tooling.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I will try and get some answers for you tom, if nobody else bothers.
mog

That's an impressive contribution Jim & way beyond the capability of the equipment I have in my shed. If you felt it was feasible, beginning the exercise with an original one in your hand would have to be the way to go. Any thoughts I had about making one or having one made are now well & truly banished... Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Mog, I await further dimensions if available.

Peter, I have just embarked on producing an "Engine Turned" steering wheel center for the TD.

I hope to finish that in several weeks. and then I leave for a warmer climate for a few weeks.

Perhaps by then we can sort out the feasibility and even do some "Donlop" experiments.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

If you manage to come up with one that passes muster by the purists Jim then count me in.
Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

G’day Peter,
I am pursuing the 123ignition and wanted to ask you some questions. Can you contact me at mortres at pobox dot com.
Thanks,
Mort
Mort 50 TD

25deg knurl
length knurl 9.9 mm
diam knurl 4.85 mm
shaft tot length 39.7 mm
shaft diam 4.29 mm
offset to knurl from cutout end not including cutout 20 mm
valve cutout width 2.2 mm as is valve hole diam
depth of valve hole 8 mm
depth of cutout 1.65 mm

keyring hole @2.2 mm
offsett from knurl end to hole center @5.1 mm

radius of the top, is quite shallow, (1mm approx over 4.29 mm) = 2.8 approx ?

18 knurls total.

font size 1.5 x2.5 mm
offset of D to knurl 2.5 mm
dunlop is 10 mm length

knurl width is a bit difficult to measure,

looks to be aspect of 2 raised to 1 cut

wear and tear will no doubt have softened any measurements.

hth
mog

Thanks mog

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Mog.
Could you check the length of the "Dunlop" one more time.
if the characters are 1.5 mm, (0.59") I measure the spaces at 0.030" or about 0.75 mm" That would put the overall length at 6*1.5 + 5*0.75 or 12.75 total

FIRST BIG ISSUE

I can find stamp sets that are 1.5 mm in width but the shanks are 1/4" or about 6.25 mm wide.
I would need to have the shanks ground down to 2.25 mm in width.

I will need to investigate the cost to have that done.


Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I found some letter stamps at McMasters that are designed to stack together.
They are 3/32 wide about 2.4 mm.
I ordered 2 (a "D" and a "U")
I can see if this route will work from that with little expenditure.

The Knurl calculates out to be a 32 pitch. More on that later.


Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I appear to have a 36 pitch straight knurl.
I am going to see what happens if I make a holder for the knurl that rotates it 25 degrees.
If that works I don't see a problem in getting a 32 pitch knurl.
However I have some work, a fixture for the steering wheel center in the mill at this time.
I will need the mill for the holder.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Mort you have mail. Jim & Mog, watching with interest! Bespoke may actually be possible. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I think I missed a 2 out of the letter measurement, I put the total length down right i'm sure, but let me check tom, I will try for a decent pic or two as well
mog

must have been 1.25 width on the font, sorry about that. here a pic that shows a lot to cram in over that 1cm



mog

Mog,

Do you know anyone in UK with the capability to reproduce
the tyre valve remover using your specs?

Cheers
Rob Grantham
R GRANTHAM

Hi Rob

sorry no, im sure there are people who could do it. I have been away from cars for a while so just getting to know everything again.
mog

Here are some knurling results.
I made a knurl holder. Not the best tool I ever made but all I had was 1/2" square. I would have rather had 5/8 or 3/4. I did order some proper sholder bolts but they did not arrive.

I am using a 36 pitch knurl and it looks a bit coarse.
The top frame is the DONLOP tool from Mog.
Second frame is a knurl at 10 degrees rotation. (I just guessed to see if the tool would work, it did.)
Second knurl is at 25 degrees.
This knurl is too deep. I will try a few more and then post and decide on wether 36 is OK or if I need to order another knurl. They are about $17.

The hardest part will be the stamping of DONLOP I can not find stamps that are 1.25 mm.
I have two (D and O ) 1.5 mm stamps in the mail.
I need to see if I can roll the part in the press.

I am also concerned about the Font. The stamp makers so not mention that.

Mog;

I do not think you gave the diameter of the tool at the notched end. Is the diameter at the rounded end the same?

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim B,

I don't mean to be overly critical, but it appears that you may need to check the spelling of "D(u)nlop". It's probably just a typo, but I thought I should mention it. See your image from the post immediately above.

If you can get this worked out, I'd be interested in one. I have a couple of friends with TC's that might be interested as well, assuming that this is correct for their tool kit as well.

Happy New Year to all!

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

Getting there Jim, yes both ends are same diameter.

here a pic of the rounded edge.

Have a good new year all.



mog

Jim, your follow up work and skill knowledge on the Dunlop tyre valve removal tool is mighty impressive.

Always amazes how the combining of detail(ie.from mog's
specs.) and other member's support,how something which
is difficult to reproduce with exactitude,can give rise to a possible solutuon.

It is an increasing pity that the known suppliers of reproduction T type parts appear not to have the same zeal.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis").TF9177("Athos").


R GRANTHAM

Kirk- My bad
Rob- Thanks

Mog, I messed up on the slitting.
some how I decided I needed to use a 0.025" saw.
Your measurements say 0.089" Probably 3/32" which I don't have. I will use 0.079 which I do have and which will fit.

That's for tomorrow. I had 2 glasses of wine and I do not use power tools after imbibing.

I will have the prototype done tomorrow. I found I was much too deep on the knurl. 0.015" will do fine.
Mog, if you drop me your postal address at eeengineer-at-verizon-dot-net I will drop the prototype in the mail. This will not have DUNLOP on it.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Yeah Rob. Ain't that the truth! Mog & Jim I doffs me lid... Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just so the thread does not disappear, here is a prototype.
The knurl is double cut. (Twice as many groves as the cutter has. I will work on this.
The valve engagement slot is too wide.

The double cutting comes from not starting wit the correct diameter.
It appears that the the present knurl repeats every 0.009" of diameter.
I should turn the 0.0187 diameter to 0.182. I would then have 19 groves as opposed to the 18 Mog noted.

I will try again later today.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Jim,

Nice work.Enjoying your 'surgical calculations'!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
R GRANTHAM

I am fascinated watching the progression of what may very well become a new and highly sought after reproduction item. I for one would like to be but on the waiting list for (2)ea

Cheers

Bill Chasser Jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

wow

instead of dunlop, you could stamp it with a choice of brand/car reg etc.

mog

Like "'53 MG TD"? I like it. Jud
J K Chapin

How about just stamping the MG logo on the non business end? After all MG put the octagon on just about everything.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Or maybe we could just go with DUNLOP. I'd definitely buy one of those! I'd love to see one of the originality police wrestling with it & me with a blank expression on my face... Now that'd be a real feel good moment! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Where does one find the difference between an excellent reproduction and a counterfeit? Bud
Bud Krueger

Not that I want to take away from Jim's great quest but has anyone checked out the In Points version?

http://members.optushome.com.au/inpoint/page2.html

The have repos available for $17 US.

Peter they are in your continent/country.
Christopher Couper

This may sound a little silly but, what threads did the British tubes have in the stem back in the day, or were they standard with the rest of the world? I have a small valve core tool with a thread chaser for inside and outside threads. Looks like a little cross. I know, it's not MG, well, maybe not. Grin. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Thanks Chris. I'll give them a call on Monday & arrange a visit as they're not too far away from me. Be interested to see what they make of my set of original tools, my bespoke reproduction hessian tool roll & my illustrated T Type tools document. If possible I'll take a pic of their reproduction valve removal tool & post it here. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir


A quick update.
It appears my shop-made knurl holder is not good enough.

The ears are only 1/16 and knurling at an angle creates a force that opens the "jaws".
I should have made it out of 3/4" stock, but I don't have any. I have some rusty 1" square that I am reluctant to use.
I did find a short piece of 1/2 by 0.700" and I am making a new tool out of that.

The letter stamps "D" and "U" arrived. The font appears to be close enough.

I will need to make a holder for them. Large enough to accommodate 6 stamps and make a filler for 4 blank positions.
This to see if I can roll the "DU" onto a prototype tool.

Yes the do sell holders but they are in the $200 to $300 range.

It also appears that the length of the DUNLOP will be about 1/16 longer than the factory lettering. I believe you would have to have an original in hand to see the difference.

Comments please on the stamps.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

nothing is perfect excepting the first few that roll off a line - or copies. My " I would say Tool - but might cause a snigger or two " valve remover is well used, but still shows a deep indent on the base of the dunlop punching that looks likes it was a bit imperfect to start with, if you look at old tyre levers stamped with dunlop then they are all over the place.

good luck with the new holder.
mog

Chris, Jeremy from the In Point is away for the next 10 days so I've arranged to see him then to have a look at his reproduction tool.
Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I have been chasing this knurl for several days.
I made a new holder. That would either give me a knurl wit twice the number of teeth or 1/half the number of teeth.

I ran through about 18" of 3/16 brass rod. Finally by clamping the end of the rod and running at the highest speed my lathe will manage I believe I have an acceptable knurl.
It has 22 Valleys as opposed to the 18 "mog" counts. If 18 is sacred I could look for a knurl with fewer teeth.

I am posting a pix. The knurl does not quite run full to the left but that will be taken care of on the next one.

In the next post I am attaching a drawing.
I would appreciate it you tool owners out there would check it.
I converted "mog's" mm dimensions to inches using Excel then did the drawing in inches and then converted back to mm in AutoSketch that is the reason for some roundoff error.


Jim B.

JA Benjamin

drawing in inches and mm.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

There's an original on Ebay at the moment with an almost impossible to believe "Buy it now price" of AU$83.50! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This is the effort from the local supplier. Pretty ordinary IMHO & not worth $17 of my money. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter,

I have looked up eBay for the valve tool you mentioned and can't find it. Is it still for sale?

Jim,seems like you are getting very close to the real deal.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Rob: This was one from last fall but I don't see anything more recent:

371196957897

Perhaps it was AU only listing.

Christopher Couper

Ebay Item No.231377505434. Bedworth in the UK. Buy it now for $83.75 & postage to OZ $27.92. Didn't say when it goes off probably because it is a BIN item. Poor quality pic posted by the seller. Cheers
Peter TD 5801.

P Hehir

Seems like someone could produce a solid gold diamond studded version for those prices...
Geoffrey M Baker

Jim if you're able to manage to get the DUNLOP on there I'm keen to buy two. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Jim,
With 'Dunlop' on,I will take three(3) as well.

Cheers for now.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Some interesting information - and a variant - in this one for sale on eBay; don't know if the seller is right nor not - might well be wishful thinking?

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MG-TA-TB-MG-TC-MG-TD-TF-VA-SA-WA-YT-YA-YB-Tool-Kit-Tyre-Stem-Remover-Tool-/371237537396?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item566f7b4674&vxp=mtr
t lange

Tom

Diamond knurls would be a lot easier.

I have been on travel. I just returned home.
I have all the letter punches for DUNLOP now and I will be making a holder in the next few days.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I take his comment of "early 50's" to be anytime before 1956 so he may be correct. But for TD/TF I would stick to the examples above.
Christopher Couper

There was a guy in England selling both types on Ebay a while back. The diamond knurls he was selling looked brand new & I suspect were repros. Perhaps, as Jim says, because they were easier to make, Abingdon may have opted for the easier/cheaper version in the "early 50's." The very few originals I've seen all had the spiral knurl. Good luck with the letters Jim! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I do intend to stick wit the spiral knurl. I am fabricating a support. I feel the brass rod is bending during the knurl.

Yes Peter, I think the letters may be a challenge. Even the holder will be a challenge.

Jim B.

BTW its 28F here. I just came from Melbourne FL and 70 degree temperatures.

JA Benjamin

There´s just one on ebay # 371237537396 at 25$ (but 8 days to go ;-)

Mike
Mike Fritsch

Mike - that's the same one I posted about earlier; see the later comments - wishful thinking on the seller's part.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

This thread was discussed between 25/12/2014 and 18/01/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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