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Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Ebay Lucas Fuses

There is an ad currently running on Ebay in which the following appears:

"Here are new old stock genuine Lucas glass fuses with paper inserts in 35 amp and 1" length with pointed ends".

"These are NOS from a factory package, never used. These are the proper fuses for MG TC TD TF ..."

"These are also the correct type for a show winning car."

This information is incorrect as I've been advised by a very knowledgeable TF restorer that the correct Lucas 35 amp fuses for the TD & the TF are 1 1/4" long. Apparently they will fit but they are NOT the original or correct fuse. FYI. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

I wouldn't think pointed-end fuses were correct in any event, are they? I've never had a LBC that had pointed Lucas fuses.
Kevin McLemore

I'll leave this one to the experts Kev. Just passing on the results of my research. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Lucas glass fuses with pointed ends are correct for TFs and little doubt they are correct for TCs,and TDs as well.

Apart from my own experience,examination of original cars such as TF9052 (Frank Cronin's photo file) in USA just confirm what we already know. Fuses have generally been replaced over the years on most T types with the later type of fuse.

The original 35amp and 50amp pointed end fuses are indeed,unfortunately a rare beast today.

I have just completely rebuilt the TF 1500s 700 headlamps-bowls,chrome rims,all screws,retainer retainer rings,Lucas sense/reflector inserts,gaskets etc. Suppliers around the world do sell parts such as the glass/lense reflector units as 'original' to particular models.
Even though these inserts units are 'Lucas',they invariably are not the correct ones that were used re Factory. For example,the newer,later type of insert has the '700 Headlamp' printing set tin the glass just
below the Lucas centre bullseye. The genuine originals have this wording on the bottom edge of the glass insert!



I know,I know,many will not be concerned with such detail. However,for those that are into true Concours work it may be worth remembering that many original parts have been replaced on our cars over the years.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").


R GRANTHAM

WSM Figures N16, N21, and N22 show pointy-end fuses for TD's. Here's a picture that shows the 1-1/4 inch fuses that were in my '53 from when I bought it in 1957 until I re-wired it a couple of years ago.

Joe

Joe Olson

Joe,

Well figured. I hope you kept those fuses if they were in working order!?

Cheers
Rob Grantham
R GRANTHAM

My TD had original pointed ended fuses. Not sure of length. Doug Pelton had some a while back. George
George Butz

My TD 29350 has one flat and one pointed. The spares are each flat.

....
MAndrus

Rob,
Yes, the old fuses are still in working order and I kept them, but I put in new fuses for everyday use.
Joe
Joe Olson

Here are my 35 and 50 amp Lucas paper fuses. Note the ends are not pointed.

Christopher Couper

The older Lucas fuses had an issue. I had heard about it from a friend who found one on a Morris Minor. I had one on my Jaguar MK XI.
The fuse element forms a couple with the end solder. Corrosion between the two metals results and the fuse opens.
If you look at the fuse it appears to be good. If you measure it with a multimeter it measures open.

Careful examination of the end will disclose a dark ring around the center fuse element.
If I had not known about it I would still be looking.


Jim B
Jim Benjamin

How long are they Chris? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hmmm,

Chris,your TD has been rebuilt at least once? Did these blunt
ended Fuses come with the car ex Factory or were they replaced at some stsge?

On TFs,the 50amp Lucas Fuse is for the horn circuit. Is your 50amper
placed in the Fuse Block for the horn circuit?

Peter,they look like 1and 1/4" approx. to me.


Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos")
R GRANTHAM

Joe,thank you for the alert in the Series TD Series TF The MG midget
Workshop Manual No. AKD580A, Section 15 clearly depicts a TDs
Fuse Block with the pointed end Fuses.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
R GRANTHAM

Chris,

Pictures in the WSM and Operation Manual show terminals A1-A2 on the upper side of the fuse block, and the A3-A4 terminals on the lower side, and that's the way my car is. Yours seems to have the opposite orientation. Is there a reason for that?

Joe
Joe Olson

Peter,

I have just measured Lucas 35A and Lucas 50A fuses contained
in their small original red Lucas boxes. They are a touch under 1 and 1/4" in length. There were ten(10) fuses in each of these boxes when sold by Lucas. However, I also have a few Lucas fuses not in their boxes with blunt ends and measure 1 and 1/8".

Cheers
Rob Grantham
R GRANTHAM

Thanks Rob. We seem to be getting very close to determining just what was originally fitted. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Egads. My fuse block has been upside down for 45 years! How embarrassing :-(

Joe: Thanks for noticing.

I hope I can correct this with the wiring as it is. If not I am going to be stuck with this. And I have a dash cover to I will have to fight or take out.

Rob: These are replacements from the 60's. I had a stash of them.
Christopher Couper

Chris, your fuse block was probably meant for a TD going to Australia. Jud
J K Chapin

I will be living with this upside down fuse block forever. The wires have been trimmed and there is no way they will reach the other side when it is rotated.
Christopher Couper

Reactivated thread.

I just took possession of forty 35 amp fuses, supposedly LUCAS with the pointed/bullet shaped ends. See pic. These came from an English supplier who states they are 'original classic car fuses'. They are 1" long. Unlike the originals that I've seen the word LUCAS isn't printed on the paper in the glass. When fitted to the VR they are a tad too short. The blunt end early replacements are 1 1/4" and these are a bit too long for the holders in my 9 post VR. The originals were almost certainly just over an inch in length, probably about 1 1/8" with bullet shaped ends. If I can remove the ends from the recent purchase, use the glass from some fuses I'd ordered from China and reprint the original description in a similar font, I hope to be able to make a reasonable facsimile of the originals.

Joe could you please post a couple of pics of your original 35 and 50 amp fuses for my records? Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Original fuses TD27489. Note pointed ends on the spares. I have a couple clean originals somewhere, will try to find and post a couple pictures.

George Butz III

Thanks George. The length when compared to the fuse clips suggest that they are indeed original. The caps at the end of the fuse align perfectly with the clips. 1" is too short and 1 1/4" is too long. Originality is also confirmed by the bullet shaped ends. Be great to see the close up pics.

The fuses from China come apart very easily but yet to successfully remove any caps from the English fuses. Seems they're secured with both solder and glue. I'll boil a couple and also cook a couple in the oven and see if that softens the adhesive. Both 35 amp and 50 amp fuse wire is readily available here and the reproduction LUCAS font really looks the part. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Off of TD 1250

L E D LaVerne

All 4 originals....suggested the owner store these away.

L E D LaVerne

As they are hard to come by

L E D LaVerne

Spot on LaVerne! The paper I've reproduced for the 35 amp fuse is pretty much identical to what's shown inside the fuses in your pics, including the layout. I just need some closeups now of the 50 amp version, mainly for the colour of the paper. I believe this was an orange tone? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I know it is sensible to carry a few spare fuses in the car but the attached pic shows what I found in the TF's glove box. I wonder if the previous owner was having problems with short circuits! The loom has now been replaced.

Jan T

J Targosz

Peter,
Here are pictures of my 35 and 50 amp fuses. The writing on the 50 amp has faded a lot over the years.
Joe

Joe Olson

Here's a picture of the 50 amp fuse in sunlight that better shows the paper color. Hope this helps.
Joe

Joe Olson

Thanks Joe. First time I've seen an original 50 amp! The printing appears to be white on a pale orange? background colour. I've found some original bullet ended fuses at an auto electrician's shop here in Sydney. The owner is a restorer of classic cars himself so is keen to help. I pick them up on Monday. Although not the correct amperage they can be rebuilt as 35 and 50 amp LUCAS 'originals' using fuse wire of the correct rating from a Melbourne supplier. I'll post a pic showing the various components when I have them. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

These are some of the Chinese fuses disassembled. I'll just be using the glass once it is ground down to the precise length, with the caps going straight into the bin. The flux residue cleans off nicely with bleach. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Found this amongst my TF spares (not sure what year they are).



M Magilton

T' other side.

Matthew.

M Magilton

Great post Matthew. Seems that the layout/arrangement of the descriptor, as well as the font and background colour changed over time, along with the final change to the blunt ends. These pics are another first for me. This time showing red lettering over a manila? background for the 50 amp fuse. Thanks mate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Original 35A, effectively 1-1/4" long.

George Butz III

Nice shot of the text and caps. The solder on each end probably adds about 1/16". Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, If you decide you'll go into production, and want to sell a few sets, I would be a customer!

Brian Warmuth
ZBMan

I have been to hundreds of LBC shows and have yet to check whether the fuses in the cars were pointed or not. What is the "point" of this exercise?
Gene Gillam

Brian when I get a few assembled I'll send the 'how to' to anyone that's interested, including where to find the suppliers. It's been an interesting exercise. I just met a great guy, an auto electrician, who had 7 original LUCAS fuses and who understood exactly what I was trying to do. He wanted $5 for all of them and I had to practically break his arm to get him to accept $10!

The devil is in the detail Gene. My goal is simple. To try and have the car present just as it did when it left the factory. This includes not just the obvious items like the battery, but the tiniest detail such as the decals, nuts and bolts etc AND the fuses. When showing a car often it's the little things that separate two seemingly original cars. Concours judges here and elsewhere are sometimes surprisingly knowledgeable, along with the occasional member of the public, who can also come up with some amazing info. Odd details like the location of the patent plate on the side curtains and the type of rivets that secure the rear flap. Thankfully I'm not alone in this quest. Chris Couper has a site devoted to this very thing - originality - and his site has had an extraordinary number of visits, (257,294 to date, I just checked), since it was first established. For me at any rate and quite a few others here and all over the world, that is the 'point' Gene. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I know when you own it it's your car and one can do as they wish...however, having said that - thank God there are still folks who want ORIGINALTYand will work hard to attain it. If not for them, how would we ever know? Years and many owners dilute the "original" and I for one am glad there are those out there who care. I have a 1929 Model A ford Tudor and while very nice...would no way try to take it to fine point judging. Those folks have been judging them since the 50's and know exactly how they were. They publish a "judging standards" manual for each seperate area of the cars and if you intend to get into judged fine- point, then youd better pay attention!

Cheers,
Brian W.
ZBMan

Peter H. and Brian W.,

Really enjoyed your summation of the chase for originality/authenticity
factors on our cars.

Of course, not all owners are interested in originality aspects. However, for example, individuals who enter any competition such as Concours,it is very gratifying to see and hear Judges who really do have detailed knowledge
of what the cars were like ex Factory. This gives credence to the event.

As previously indicated,you can do what you like with your car at any time.
Many cars look the goods at first glance. Closer examination can reveal Incorrect shaped Taiwanese chrome bumper blades, plastic (non cellulose) steering wheels, misaligned front guard to running board to rear guard
lower edges, incorrect non original clips, incorrect colour/plating finishes
and so on it goes. It does take a fair deal of extra zeal and effort to rebuild the original gear.

TDs and TFs are a magnificent, decently engineered Abingdon product.
They are a pleasure to drive in modern day traffic without the need for any modifications when they are restored well.

Peter,well done on the Fuse follow up. Cream on the cake !

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

The pic below illustrates where I'm at with the fuses. The original at the top of the pic doesn't carry the word LUCAS, nor does the 'original' 1" one at the bottom that I recently purchased from England (6 quid for 20). The fuse that I've assembled is now the correct length as it sits perfectly in the clip on the VR ensuring maximum contact with the clip terminals and has a pretty good facsimile of the LUCAS ID paper.

The caps from the fuse at the top have a thicker wall section, hence the smaller diameter glass. I hope to pick up some 4.98 mm here so I can convert the 7 that I have to both 35 amp and 50 amp. The Chinese glass is a reasonable fit with the English caps, although just a little loose, so I'll have to use some PVA to secure them once the wire is inserted. I'll then use a dab of solder and trim the excess wire. Linishing the glass down to the correct length is simple and quick, just requiring a check with the digital vernier to ensure I didn't go too far. The Chinese fuses were dead easy to disassemble. At only about $4 for 50, the few that I overground didn't matter.

Still unsure of the correct detail with the 50 amp fuses, i.e. font and background colour. Further confirmation would be appreciated. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Pic shows some of the English fuse caps that have been cleaned with steel wool by spinning them on a drill bit in a cordless drill. They also spent some time in a bleach bath followed by immersion in white vinegar. 35 and 50 amp fuse wire arrives in a day or two. I'll end up with 20 @ 35 amp and 20 @ 50 amp fuses that are really good reproductions of the originals. Presently compiling an illustrated article on this exercise including the fuse and wire suppliers from England, China and Melbourne. The fuse in the pic is a repro and is yet to have the fuse wire fitted.

Still unsure whether the font on the 50 amp fuses was red or black. The paper colour seems to be pretty close to the buff colour originally used on manila folders. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

The colors, as shown in the picture I posted of my lone example of a 50A fuse, are definitely white font on an orange background. My guess is that Lucas wasn't consistent over the years.
Joe
Joe Olson

Thanks Joe. As Matthew's pic is clearly for the TF and so is later than the original example that you posted, I'm going with your example of white on an orange background for the TD's 50 amp fuse. The background colour will need to be dark enough to contrast with the white font so I'll see what's available at the local stationers. I'm making the 35 amp version first as there are plenty of original examples showing black on a white background. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

As far as I know Lucas did not use white writing on any fuses. I will never say never but I am confident that is the case.

The 50 ampere fuse by Lucas was Yellow with Purple writing.

The example on this thread possibly has faded to white.

You would need to see many more examples of Yellow paper and white writing to be confident in my opinion, I have never seen any.

The image I have here shows the words in a different order. They came from a TF 1500 fuse box.

The small fuse at the bottom, I have a large supply of these that can be used for the conical ends


Rod Brayshaw

G'day Rod. Thanks for the pic. I have a few in my collection now showing a number of different word arrangements. I'll hold off on this exercise for a couple of reasons. The most important is that sourcing the correct 12 volt 35 and 50 amp fuse wire is proving much, much harder than I ever imagined. If anyone has a source of 12 volt 35 amp and 50 amp wire please let me know. The stuff that arrived from Melbourne is 240 volt wire and is being returned. The other factor that is likely to cause confusion is the difference between the American and English ratings. What's needed is wire that is the equivalent of the original English 35 and 50 amp spec. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

Agree with Rod B. that the Lucas 50amp fuses had yellow paper with purple
lettering. I have never seen any other Lucas 50amp fuse in any other colour print.

Checked the current 50amp fuses on TF3719 and it has yellow paper with purple print.

Also just pulled some 50amp Lucas fuses with correct pointed ends (1 and 1/4" in length) from their original nos Lucas small red boxes and again they are yellow paper with purple coloured print.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Thanks Rob. The Melbourne wire was way too thick to be used in a glass fuse. Seeking further clarification on the correct gauge. In the meantime I'll have a go with Paint and see if I can reproduce the purple font on yellow. I now have four samples of pics showing this colour combination, so I'll go with the flow. The 35 amp versions look pretty good. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter
The fusing should be be independent of the voltage (think I*2R for heat dissipation).
I've used 15A mains fuse wire obtainable in the UK to construct a fuse which approximates the around 17A continuous carrying capacity of the Lucas 35A fuse. Haven't tested it but it should work!
Tim
TD1580
Tim Wilkinson

I can't obviously speak for Australia, but here in the US, fuse wire is commonly sold on a card with a few feet of each of 3 ratings: 5 Amp, 15 Amp, and 30 Amp. For example: https://www.amazon.com/ELECTICAL-FUSE-WIRE-30AMP-CARD/dp/B0030E3L5E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1533937437&sr=8-4&keywords=fuse+wire
Lew Palmer

I mistyped: fuse heating effect should of course be I^2R.
A quick look shows mains fuse wire ratings in Australia include 16A and 20A.
Tim
TD1580
Tim Wilkinson

Tim can you email on pjbm at bigpond dot com? I believe that cards are available here Lew with 8, 16 and 32 amp wire. Also seeking a copy of something called the 'automotive fuse wire gauge chart' which apparently gives both a rating and a diameter of tinned copper fuses. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The 35 amp fuses ready for the wire. The cap at one end of each fuse is yet to be glued in place. This ensures that inserting the wire is straightforward. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Came across this while searching for info on LUCAS 35 amp fuses. http://www.mgtoronto.com/pdf/Tech/fuses.pdf. It clarifies the difference between the English and American ratings. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just a FYI.
I have had or know of several Lucas fuses that failed. They did not blow, they failed. They opened up at the solder joint.

You could see (at lest in those days I could see) a brown (corrosion)ring around the fuse wire and between it and the solder. (BTW the fuse wire was round.) The corrosion had opened up the connection.

The first one I saw was found on a Morris Minor by , Charlie, an engineer friend. He spent hours tracing it down, because, if you looked at the fuse held horizontal, it looked good. You actually had to measure the fuse with a multi-meter. Once you knew it was open you could see the fault. That was in Florida which has a damp climate.

A few years later I had one go, just like that, on my 1961 Jaguar Mark IX. Because I had seen it before It only took a while to find. The Jag had also lived some of its life in Florida, although the fuse failed in Massachusetts.

I don't know if the issue is improper cleaning of the flux or an incompatibility between the fuse wire and the solder. I suspect the former.

I would suggest that the fuse wire is tinned before insertion and VERY carefully cleaned before using.

I think dipping in a solder pot, if you have or can borrow one, would be ideal.

Don't tin too much of the fuse as that could change the fusing current.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Peter,
Try this link and then pick whichever suits your need.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=automotive+fuse+wire+gauge+chart&qpvt=automotive+fuse+wire+gauge+chart&FORM=IGRE
Lew Palmer

Probably should test a few with a varible power supply to see where they hold/ blow and report back.
Brian W.
ZBMan

Thanks Jim and Lew. I received this link from Tim electricguru.in/page_view.php?id=29 which shows the gauge, diameter, fusing and continuous current of tinned copper wire fuse wire. It clearly indicates the need to ensure that the correct rating of fuse wire is used and highlights the difference between the American and English standards. Research suggests that using fuse wire rated at a higher voltage is acceptable e.g. 240 V used in a 12 V application is fine but not the other way around.

I'm also now reasonably confident that the Australian 15 amp continuous household supply fuse wire will adequately perform in the 35 amp LUCAS fuses I'm assembling. The chart shows that the fuse will blow at around 30 amps. It's possible that with the lights on high beam, the spot light on and the wiper in operation I just might blow the fuse, but I don't ever see myself in this driving situation.

The retired electrician across the road has provided me with some 0.028" diameter tinned fuse wire which he believes is rated at 50 amps. This was commonly used to affix the lead tags to fused links in household meter boards here. The chart shows that this 22 SWG tinned wire fuses at 48 amps so this should be fine also.

Brian, the meeting with the auto electrician tomorrow, who's worked on the Rolls and Bentley fuses, should confirm all of this. I agree a final step would be to set up a test in series using a 12 V car battery, about an inch and a quarter of fuse wire, a resistor to approximate the length of the fused wiring in a TD (whatever that would be), an ammeter that accurately measures current flow and a means of varying the current, such as a rheostat. This should confirm that the proposed fuse wire blows at the predicted amperage. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, the lights are not fused in the TD/TF.

One does the horn, the other does some of the items that are live when the ignition is on, fuel pump, ignition are not fused, wiper motor and flasher might be.

Too late to go look in the manual.

If the lights were all on high beam and spot light on, that is 3 x 55W, about 15Amps in round numbers.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Thanks Peter. This then makes the use of the 15 amp household fuse wire even less of an issue. Appreciate the clarification. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I tried to open the link from my post above but found it doesn't work so I've copied and posted the table here.

TINNED COPPER FUSE WIRES

The Following table is based on information given I.E.E Regulation 14th edition Table A1 Approximated size of Fuse Elements Composed to Tinned Copper wire for use in semi-enclosed Fuses.

The four columns are identified as follows:

S.W.G (Standard Wire Gauge)
Diameter of the fuse wire in inches
Current rating of fuse in amperes (Continuous load)
Approximate fusing current (Blow load)

40 0.0048 1.5 3
39 1.0052 2.5 4
38 0.0060 3.0 5
37 0.0068 3.5 6
36 0.0076 4.5 7
35 0.0084 5.0 8
34 0.0092 5.5 9
33 0.0101 6.0 10
32 0.0108 7.0 11
31 0.0116 8.0 12
30 0.0124 8.5 13
29 0.0136 10.0 16
28 0.0148 12.0 18
27 0.0164 13.0 23
26 0.0180 14.0 28
25 0.020 15.0 30
24 0.022 17.0 33
23 0.024 20.0 38
22 0.028 24.0 48
21 0.032 29.0 58
20 0.036 34.0 70

The relevant S.W.G. rows for TD/TF owners are 24 for the 35 amp fuse and 22 for the 50 amp fuse. It will be seen that the continuous load is about half of the blow load. LUCAS fuses are identified with the blow load NOT the continuous load. This distinction is particularly important for those owners in America! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The 'how to' is written. Email me if you'd like a copy. Bear in mind it's not for circulation or publication but is for your use only. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter:
can't find you on the " contact owners" page. Is there a secret?
Brian W.
ZBMan

No secret Brian. I just never bothered to fill that in. Email address is pjbm at bigpond dot com. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I am with Peter. I am also trying to restore a TD back to what it was when it left the factory. There are still a number of issues relating to what was factory original for the TD. We have identified a variety of them in the last few years.

Peter, do you know of anyone that is making the pointed caps? I have a number of the reproduction lucas flat end fuses and would like a copy of your instructions so I can produce some close to original.

Bruce Cunha

Yes Bruce. They are available in England. 6 quid for 20 fuses. I've discovered that there were two versions of the caps, the earlier had a thicker wall section (hence smaller diameter glass) and a longer section on the cap where it made contact with the VR clip and post. This is clear in Matthews pic above, as both types are shown. If you email me I'll send you a copy of the 'how to' as it has all the details. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The assembly of the 50 amp fuses is now well underway. Finally figured out how to print the 50 amp descriptor using PAINT. Really weird issues though with the font size. I'll amend the 'how to' so if going down this road it'll save you some grief. 50 amp blow tinned copper fuse wire shown. The standard colour palette on PAINT using red and the mustard background colour produces the results in the pic below. Very close to the originals methinks. Hope you've enjoyed the journey as much as I have. Job done! Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Well done, Peter. I gotta admire your tenacity in getting every last detail just right!
Joe
Joe Olson

This thread was discussed between 28/07/2015 and 20/08/2018

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.