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MG TD TF 1500 Engine Numbers Only BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - Engine Numbers Only
| I have a spare engine with a brass number tag having the following identification, XPAG TD2 17057. Is there anyway to get the remaining numbers of the original car. The engine, transmision and differential, I believe came from a 1952. The owner had replaced them all with Volvo components. |
| G. L. Raham |
| I tried to find you corresponding numbers (chassis, etc) from the MG T Registry with no luck. The registry is: http://www.tregister.org You might try sending an e-mail to: steve@tregister.org He may be able to help. |
| Roy Challberg |
| My 1952 TD MKII is TDC/17198, with engine #TD3/17382. That should give you an approximation of some car#s for your engine. Paul |
| Paul Gaynor |
| Thank you Roy for your interest and help. I have sent an e-mail to "Steve" in hope that he can retrieve the other "numbers" for me. As I have the drive train I would like to record the numbers of the original car they belonged to. If Steve can get them I shall let you know. Thanks again. George |
| G. L. Raham |
| Hello Paul, Thank you for your reply on the car numbers. They don't seem too far apart. Do you know when your car rolled of the line? It would be interesting to know aproximatly when the drive train I have, made it out the door. Regards George |
| G. L. Raham |
| Hi Paul, I finally got around to using your car & engine numbers to to identify the chassis that my extra drive train came from. I was able to come close but no cigar. I found car #16656 with engine #17050 and car #16658 with engine #17067 but could not find any car # with engine #17057. It was an interesting exercise and I thank you for your help. George |
| G. L. Raham |
| From the archive. The only thread there on engine numbers. I was just looking through Neil Cairns work on our cars and read the following. "Early M.G. 1250cc 'X' block, octagon cast in, oval water holes, 24142 & 24146. I believe this refers to the TC and the early TD. Does anyone know the difference between the two blocks (the 142 and the 146)? There may be more information in the document I'm looking at but I'm yet to find it. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Perhaps people have forgotten that I work with the Production Records, and can do all sorts of searches. 4 seconds of search shows me that engine XPAG/TD2/17057 originally came in car TD16795, made on 6 June, 1952.
Peter - if the difference is what I think, TC and early TD engines had their brass octagonal number plate on the left side of the bell housing, and the drain tap centrally located on the right side. Later TD engines had the number on the right side just ahead of the down pipe, and the drain tap slightly more forward. Tom Lange MGT Repair |
| t lange |
| Ahh ,the production records---Nice one Tom Something I've been meaning to ask but keep getting sidetracked Amongst a bulk lot of MG parts I bought here a while back there was a plate which has nothing to do with my Y, I don't think but it would be interesting to know what it is and possibly reunite it with it's car I'd love to know what it resembles engine-body-?? Could you have a look through your records and see if there's a match please   |
| William Revit |
| Engine number XPAG/TD2/17057 was originally installed in car number TD/16795 EXLNA on 6 June 1952. David |
| David Wardell |
| Hi William Engine number 13990 was XPAG/TD2/LHX13990 originally installed in TD/13445 EXLNA on 4 February 1952. I'm afraid I don't know anything about the white tag. David |
| David Wardell |
| The narrow tag is from a Y type body I vaguely recall. |
| M Magilton |
| Would that be a body number or chassis number or engine number on that plate then do you think I'd really like it to belong to whatever car it came from if I can find out Having the 1.25 would be engine size then but the rest of the number is a loss to me I guess a look at some Ys and see what matches up and go from there then-------- I'm starting to think, because it's painted it might be a body number What do you think of that theory |
| William Revit |
| This brought up a good question. In the Y's and early TD's I have seen seem to have the engine ID in a different position than on the TC. More like 11 O clock on the bell housing. William, any potential you can post a picture of the location of the Tag on the Y? |
| Bruce Cunha |
| William
Just checked David Lawrence's "Let there be Y's", pg 232 and Supplement 1, pg 10 & 15. (CD copy) The "1.25MG" plate was fitted to all Y and YB saloons towards the top of the left side of the bulkhead by two self-tapping screws, and usually positioned immediately above "Nuffield Metal Products" plate. Check your copy of Let there be Y's for more information on the plate numbers. As I have a YT, my car does not have it. Does your Y saloon have the 1.25MG plate attached? Maybe worth posting the question on the MG Y-type board. cheers Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Thanks, I'll have a look I don't have a body for my Y but this plate was in one of the boxes of bits I bought when I got my chassis and stuff I did post on the Y board a while back but there has been more response here in ten mins than there was total there, apart from one fella who wanted me to send it to him to look after so it wouldn't get lost I don't have a "Let there be Y's" but I'll find someone that has OR try the Y board again I guess-- Cheers |
| William Revit |
| OK I've been told this is the body number and is usually 245 to 270 numbers lower than the CAR/Chassis number so it fits in with my chassis number ok--shame the body itself isn't screwed onto it Thanks for your interest And apologies to Paul Barrow,(MGY register) he had actually answered my earlier request but I couldn't recall it------must be getting old Cheers willy |
| William Revit |
| William, my YT was in Tasmania at some time. This is all I know of it Tassie ownership "Kieran Schueeman, purchased the car in 2006 from the son of the original owner. He later took the car from Tasmania to Canberra, ACT" I have asked MGCCTas for information without success. Attached is my YT with a few other MGs outside our Presentation Luncheon venue in November. cheers Stuart  |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Stuart
No guarantees , but if you want me to try and find some info I can ask around Do you know which area roughly of Tas. that"Kieran Schueeman,lived in Do you know when it left for Canberra, someone should know, it's not all that long ago Was it always green- Weird as it might be I bought my chassis from a guy just a bit after 2006 from the son of a deceased estate and apparently the old fella was a MG /BMC man and had a few MGs and Morris cars Wouldn't it be strange if it was the same fella I'm happy to chase up what I can ,just say the word As long as there's no big rush---I live fairly casual willy |
| William Revit |
| I think the surname is actually Schneemann. Several Google hits there, Tas and ACT. Also an Aussie lady on Facebook who could be worth asking. |
| M Magilton |
| Ah- Kieran Schneeman , interesting man, so the car possibly came from the Hobart area I'll wait to see if Stuart wants me to chase it up or do it himself Don't want to tread on toes--- |
| William Revit |
| Willie and Matthew I asked my son who is on Linked In to contact Keiran to see if he owned my YT and to get him to contact me concerning the cars history. Willie, if he gets back to me, I will ask about other MGs the Tassie owner may have had. Matthew, see you at Nat Meet in Albury in a few weeks time. I do not believe I have enough experience to be a concours judge in either TDs or Ys. (trailering the YT down, but will drive it on events) Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| I have been in contatc with Kieran. He was involved with my YT, but not an owner. He thinks it was an Ian Knop who shipped the car from Tasmania to Canberra. Kieran bought his MG (didn't say what model) from his boss in Manly (Sydney) 12 years ago. That is bit more history on my MG. Now to see if I can find Ian Knop. Willie, can you please check with your Tassie contacts. cheers Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Stuart Happy to help Do you think Ian Knop was from Tas and shipped the car or from Canberra |
| William Revit |
| Willie as far as can gather Ian Thop moved from Tas to Canberra. Let continue this off line. email me at lesley_stuart (at) bigpond dot com Easter Nat Meet in Albury has been cancelled. Email sent out tonight. Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Ahh, That's no good, I've been doing a bit to the odd car or two for the natmeet, That's going to cost the guys here heaps with shipping/accom. cancelations etc. but I guess it had to be----- |
| William Revit |
|
Well, I have finally discovered my TF1500 engine number. I knew it was not an XPEG or an XPAG, and the number that was given by the seller,was nothing like any mgtf engine number. When he advertised the car for sale, he noted the engine number as XPAG/34878 which was totally incorrect. He also had the engine listed with his car clubs TF register as 5022F4, which is an unknown XPEG/XPAG number. From some detective work, and the benefit of a pipe camera, I know know, that it is an XPAW Wolseley donk, bored out to 69.5mm and the number is clearly stamped into the block above where the brass identification plate should be. The number is: 16032 and the one saving grace is, that it has an XPAG head on it. So, it isn't a 1250, and it isn't a 1500 - it is a 1365 give or take. Small compensation, but I am grateful for small mercies. Maurie P |
| R M Prior |
| It also has what has been subsequently described as the 100 ton crank! This a good thing. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Maurie Being a XPAW engine it will have a square ID location on the right hand side of the engine block, with the XPAW oil dip stick hole (hopefully plugged) below as per Neil Cairns' photo, attached. As Neil says in his mgccyregister tech article "Fitting an XPAW engine", you do not need to transfer the dip stick to the left side MG position. If you do make sure it is blanked off otherwise you will end up with oil all over the engine bay. Stuart  |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Maurie now that you are aware of the chassis number of your car, one sure way to discover what the original engine # was, is to consult with Tom Lange who as he has said, is able to provide the original engine # that was fitted to the car when the car left the factory. I've attached a page from the original record book to illustrate the information that is available. This is NOT for my car, or for yours either.
I wrote some time ago to the M.G. Car Club in England enquiring about my car and they sent me a photocopy of the relevant page which had an embossed stamp on the top of the page to prove its authenticity. The details are clearly shown. The 3rd column is the engine #. The last ditto column refers to the build date, which in this case is the 19th November 1951 and can be seen at the top of the page. The 5 digit # in the 1st column is the chassis number. Again this doesn't relate to either of our cars. Cheers Peter TD 5801  |
| P Hehir |
Hi Peter, This link - http://www.tregister.org/register_home.php - also provides the factory build information. Maurie P |
| R M Prior |
|
I should have added - I am not too concerned about the need to have the exact matching numbers on this car, because it is still a classic, in spite of having a Wolseley block, and an MGTF 1250 head. It still starts, runs, and turns heads, and has captured my heart. It is still an MGTF 1500, because that is what the chassis indicates - whether the body is the original is anybody's guess, and I don't mind frankly. It would be lovely to have an exact matching number car,and these are rare vehicles. The main issue to me is this: it is an MGTF 1500 built in Abingdon in 1955, albeit with different, but major, MG related components. It is always going to be an MGTF 1500, and it is simply, beautiful. Maurie P |
| R M Prior |
| Hi Maurie. I was just suggesting that if you were curious about the whereabouts of your original engine, (which obviously isn't the Wolseley block that is in your car), the first step would be to find out what that number was. Is it on the plate attached to the bulkhead? It is just possible it could be located in another vehicle, not that there'd be any chance of reuniting it, (unless it was sitting in a garage somewhere waiting for a rebuild and for some reason came up for sale), but purely for the sake of curiosity.
I don't believe that there is any way to 'reverse directory' a chassis with its present engine. A few years ago when I re-embarked on the project just before I retired, I contacted the the NSW Motor Registry to get hold of a copy of my last certificate of registration which was in 1970 and was told the the records were only kept for 10 years and then destroyed. Fortunately I was a member of the ATA for a few years around that time and so still had a copy that showed my ownership and the relevant details. This will be a critical document when I do come to register the car as it's the only thing that I possess that proves that I actually own it. I had my details registered with the link you posted above well over a decade ago but using the link, it showed no record. I've been on the Merson list for ages and I also have the authenticated page from the Abingdon production log showing factory build date, chassis and engine numbers. I do think cars with matching engine and chassis numbers are more valuable, if only, as has been said on another thread, because of their historic value. I'm a respecter of originality and so shun the visible aftermarket add-ons and the bling of the 50's/60's hoons. Put an original looking car and the jazzed up version side by side and for me there is no argument. Don't misunderstand me, I think from what I've seen from the photographs of your car it really is something to be proud of and it will be featured in the next edition of the TTORC newsletter. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Use the number on left dumbiron, type it in, for a TF, you have date of build, colour, destination, engine number. Nothing much else to know, these are extracted from factory records. All done and dusted in seconds. Peter |
| P G Gilvarry |
| Maurie Don't take the fun out of owning your classic by worrying about numbers Enjoy it-- If some scantily clad young lady pestered me to go for a blast around the block in my MG, I'm pretty sure there would be no need to tell her that the engine number has been changed willy |
| William Revit |
| Willy, I love your sense of humour mate. The only difference now for me is this: if a scantily clad young lady pestered me,to go for a blast around the block, in my MG, I would not even be capable of inserting the key into the ignition,least of all, in being of sense enough, to start the jolly thing! But, thanks for the thought, - it gives me the desire to drive my car around the regional town here, where I now live, to show it off, as a chick magnet? (in my dreams)! Maurie P |
| R M Prior |
| One Xmas I was talked into playing Santa at a local school in Hawaii and got to keep the costume for a week. My wife and I took a drive in my TD through the car parks of all 3 malls in the local town. To hear one kid say “Wow, look at Santa’s cool car” made it all worthwhile. Was a great MG experience. Peter |
| P G Gilvarry |
|
Hi Peter, I know the number of what was the originally installed engine, it was XPEG/3515 The car was built on 2nd March 1955, with chassis number TF9612 and car/body number HDB26/9612 Given the varying uses, that these cars were exposed to over the past 65 years, it would be a miracle, if that engine were still around today. My romantic side has me believing, and I imagine, that it had been rallied/raced at some point, or worse, and the engine re-built so many times it was most likely scrapped. It is like a lot of mysteries in life, some will never be solved. Unless, who-ever owned it at one point in its life, might read this BBS and voila, they remember it! The main point for me is this, and that I really hope that it was used in the manner, for which it was designed. I would be terribly pleased about that. |
| R M Prior |
| In all my years of MG work I have only been able to match ONE loose engine with the car from which it had been removed, and the UK owner of the car could not have been less interested in re-uniting the two. He wrote, "I have a perfectly fine engine in my car that runs like a top - why would I want to spend anything on another engine?" Tom Lange MGT Repair |
| t lange |
| Maurie, I'll note your original engine number and take it with me when I visit the widow of a prolific collector of all things T Types, gathered over the past decades. She has a twin garage full of T Type parts, including about a dozen blocks, heads, flywheels etc. I've offered to help her in sorting and cataloguing the huge quantity of parts and to assist her in identifying the gear as much as I'm able, putting a reserve on the bits she knows the prices of and also conducting the auction on her behalf. I'm keen to ensure that the parts go to those who actually need them rather than to dealers, so they will ONLY be advertised to TTORC members initially, this is in exchange for my assistance. I'll also be taking pics of the store of parts for an upcoming TTORC newsletter. Later in the year we'll be running the auction, with all proceeds going to the owner, Covid virus permitting. I'll see if there are any XPEG blocks there on my first trip to begin the sorting process and I'll note their numbers. As a member of TTORC you'll be getting the details in the June or August Newsletter, unless I do happen across XPEG 3515... Cheers
Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Tom Lange wrote........
"In all my years of MG work I have only been able to match ONE loose engine with the car from which it had been removed, and the UK owner of the car could not have been less interested in re-uniting the two. He wrote, "I have a perfectly fine engine in my car that runs like a top - why would I want to spend anything on another engine?" Tom, he obviously did not care, or was blissfully unaware of the importance of matching numbers. Gosh,if I had a choice, I would go for a matching number every time, irrespective of cost. I would give plenty, to be able to find my original engine. I can only assume, that it was reconditioned so many times it was beyond any further machining and was scrapped. XPEG/3515, where are you? Maurie P |
| R M Prior |
| Maurie, My Aussie TF is HDA26/9503 built February 22, 1955 with XPEG/3345. In early 67 I helped a friend fit a Wolseley engine to a white TF after his original engine threw a con-rod through the block. I don’t believe it was a 1500 but have no idea of how to tell. The old block went into the trash at RAAF Laverton soon after Easter 67. Peter |
| P G Gilvarry |
This thread was discussed between 03/01/2008 and 21/03/2020
MG TD TF 1500 index
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