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MG TD TF 1500 - Fitting Exterior Pipeing on a TF.

Doing a mock up before the car heads to the paint shop and I am attaching the wings for the first time in 30 years. I have the front wings attached. I fitted the Pipeing by attaching it to the wing with clothes pegs and drilling through where each hole is. This worked fine. But now I am at the rear and the pipeing needs to turn a sharp corner at the door hinge and twist sideways to attach to the underside of the wheel arch. Is this all correct. Is it all done as one continuous piece. It is different to the TD where it appears to stop dead. Can't find reference to this anywhere and going to give it a go tomorrow if the weather hold out. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
D Lamb

I suspect you will find different opinions on this, but here goes. It can easily be done in one piece, though I believe that a joint was employed roughly at the break in the side panels. It helps if you attach some tape to the flap so that you can pull the piping down tight to the wing. The flap goes from horizontal to vertical at the critical point you mention and around a tight curve, so you need plenty of cuts in the flaps. Some people insert wire into the piping to hold the shape, though I didn't find it necessary and there wasn't any in my original piping. Keep the pipng tight to the wing and tighten as you go and it will be fine.
Dave H
Dave Hill

There was an overlap join below the door hinges. I took some pics when I removed my crumbling factory piping a few years back. The attached photo shows the J curve. Although the cut flange has crumbled away you can see the rubber tube core with a length of aluminium wire used to support the curve. I achieved good results with co-axial cable as a core.

M Magilton

Image showing the two side pieces which are a slightly smaller diameter. The main piping is my replacement and the side pieces are still factory.

M Magilton

Might I also suggest you cut slots in the piping where the bolts go versus holes. In this manner you can remove the piping if you need to without taking off the fenders and its also a lot easier to install too. You don't have to fight the piping and holes and can just slip the piping in after the fender is loosely hung.

It helps to have another person push the piping into the crevice while you tighten the bolts too. I also wiggle (slide the piping back and forth) while pushing to really get it to seat into the gap.
Christopher Couper

I slit the piping vinyl with a sharp blade and then twisted it round, on the core. I then put a wisker of super glue on the cut ends and pressed them together. The join is almost invisible.

Jan T
J Targosz

Slots definitely the best solution even functions should you decide to split your side panels for improved engine access.
G Evans

I used Chris's idea by cutting slots in the piping verses holes and it made the job much easier. PJ
Paul161

Thanks again for all your help. Much support for slots rather than holes. I will review this decision when I reassemble after painting.

I have a further question about attaching the rear most part of the rear wings to the points extending from the chassis. Is there anything between the chassis and the wing. Just it's not an easy fit and there is quite a gap to make!

Sorry I would load up a picture but it's no longer working for me!
D Lamb

Finally got a picture to work. This is after following all the good advice.

Ps the reason the running boards are rusty bare metal is because I planned to replace them but the Moss replacements were so different they didn't fit!

D Lamb

Picture of the large gap at the rear. Wondering if anything goes between the wing and the chassis where it connects to as there is quite a large gap to make up.

D Lamb

That area is supposed to be tight enough to hold the piping in place. Looks like your wing is not in all the way. Try loosening the bolts and see if it will slide further in. PJ
Paul161

Thanks Paul I am messing around with skinny little bolts on the rear wings as I can't locate the correct ones to fit into the captured nuts. They have a very wide thread. But when I get them (and I have a plan) I will get a better fit on these.
D Lamb

Dave the bolts are 5/16" BSF. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Cheers Peter I have had such trouble with this bolt primarily because I got the tub back 10 years ago with just the nuts and any bolt kit I got didn't fit. Must have tried over 30 bolts. The threads are very far apart I think that has been my problem. See pics

D Lamb

Pic 2 of bolt

D Lamb

Have you fitted the very last bolt and hex nut at the back that pinches the rear of the wing in to an extension from the chassis (if I recall correctly). If that is missing it might explain the gap.
Dave H

Dave Hill

Cheers Dave no I haven't. I don't have the correct bolts yet and have being messing around with smaller ones to fit through the captive nuts until I get sorted. And as such have only been able to attach in 3 places.
D Lamb

Dave the Atlas bolt in your pic is not the correct thread. If your captive nuts are missing, as mine were, it's a simple matter to make both the BSF nuts & the cages. A bit of 0.08 mm gal sheet, some 1/4" plate & a 5/16" BSF tap is all you need. All your thread type queries can be easily resolved on Chris Couper's site. Just Google "The Original MG TF midget", look under "Details" then under "Original Bolts & Positions". In fact you'll find the answer to just about every originality question on his TD & TF sites. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Dave,is your car a former US car ? The reason I ask is the picture of the bolt looks very much like a 1/4-20 bolt quite common in the US. You also may check if the fender is hitting the top of the rear spring shackle mount on the frame.
^18:0:1^76:0:1^110:0:78^114:0:8

Darryl: Take a peak at these pictures:

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/TF9052/Thumbnails/mgtf_tf9052.htm

Pay special attention to images 219, 238 and 239.

Note on image 241/242 even the factory just about used up the spacing of the piping to fill the gap.

And BTW your running boards look great. Rule of thumb. Never buy what you can fix. It will always be better than new.
Christopher Couper

Cheers Chris. I learnt the fix rather than buy lesson early on with theses running boards and the splash apron at the back. The fit on the replacements was so off it wasn't funny. Plus how far do you go. You could replace everything because it's easier and possibly cheaper but it then becomes a different car. It's all about knowing where to stop. I have replaced the bumpers but in the long run I will get the old ones redone. No small job and complicated in Ireland by the fact there is no chromers here.
I will study the pics in detail thanks.
Darryl
D Lamb

Peter I had the tub rebuilt about 15 years ago by an English company Hutson. It has been in storage ever since.
There are nuts welded to the tub and some are totally inaccessible hence the need for the matching bolt. If not the correct bolt. Being quite honest I don't mind it not being the correct bolt as long as it fits the nuts which can't be removed.
But thanks for the advice.
D Lamb

The car is an Irish car but the tub was rebuilt using a lot of the original parts by a company in the UK about 15 years ago. Maybe the used us bolts. But whatever they are I am having terrible trouble getting the 14 needed to attach the wings properly.
D Lamb

I believe the rear wings on a TF are held on by 1/4" BSF bolts.
David
D. Sander

You can run a 8 m/m tap into the captive nuts and then use M8 stainless bolts and penny washers, available from Screwfix for a couple of pounds.


Jan T
J Targosz

B&G has the complete set of bolts for your car in the original threads and size. That's where I got mine. Plus the plating is close to original and their washers are the proper thickness. PJ
Paul161

I have a set of the originals from Moss but they don't fit because the nuts welded to the tub are a different thread pattern.
D Lamb

The nearest and easiest to obtain substitute size is 8mm, especially the square captive nuts, so if somebody has changed them, that is most likely what they have used.
Dave H

Dave Hill

So here is my problem. Non standard welded nuts. And my current solution!

D Lamb

The reason for the captive nuts is to allow some adjustment when fitting the guards as the nut can move a little inside the cage. You may regret not installing the cages as you will possibly have to resort to widening some of the holes in the guards to achieve a pleasing fit. This would then mean having to use oversize flat washers, which will be visible. Now is the best time to address this before the car goes to paint. My piping will also carry slits as well as elongated holes to make installation easier. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Rear Guard affixing setscrews on a TF originally were 1/4" BSF with the cast brand on the head being 'Rubery Owen'. Pointed end shank from memory. Also,the washers were 1 and 1/8" in diameter,not like the 1 and 1/4" modern replacements!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos".)
R GRANTHAM

Peter I already have large elongated holes in my rear wings and as you mentioned must use large washers to stop the bolt from going through. So no point changing I guess. Apart from this there are only 3 that I can get at the other 3 can't even be seen. But thanks anyway. Darryl
D Lamb

Think I am sorted. I contacted Hutson in the UK today and they are sending me out 20 bolts with washers. Not bad as it's 19 years since the fixed the Tub for me. I will let you all know if they fit.
D Lamb

Thanks Guys for all the help.

Hutson came through with the bolts and they fitted. They call them 1/4 UNC.

I fitted the rear wing and finally found out why I was having so many problems.

My tub needed to be raised by the amount of the rubber the petrol tank sits on about 4mm.

In paticularly the 2 connecting points at the rear of the Tub when raised with the rubber underneath allowed me to connect the rear most bolt on the wing to the chassis. This pulled the wing right in and closed the gap. It also solved my problem with the rear of the wing hitting the rear shackle for the leaf springs.

Note to self: start at the rear installing the pipeing and work forward as it's far easier to eliminate the slack.





D Lamb

Its good you are getting the practice before the color goes on your car. It will be like you have two or more restorations under your belt. :-)
Christopher Couper

Cheers Chris I think I have done every job on this car at least twice and some 3 times. Just realised I need to take the wings off again to properly install the bonnet catches.
Still no idea of what colour to paint it.
D Lamb

Darryl the I.D plate will tell you what colour the car was originally. With a TD after one or two resprays & half a dozen owners, identifying the original colour is not that simple. As I'm into originality, if it was my TF, I'd paint it the original colour. Somebody here will be able to tell you how to determine that from the plate & whether or not your car had been resprayed by a PO. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Unless D.L. has one of the Irish CKD cars?

Matthew.
M Magilton

Darryl: Here is the code for TF colors.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/mgtf_finishes.htm#ColorSchemes
Christopher Couper

Yes Matthew and Peter one of the 8 CKD TFs that came to Ireland. Delivered in primer. No idea what it was then painted. My parents can't remember what colour it was when they got it in the 60s. But they painted it maroon. I do have a list of 6 POs so I may try to contact them if they are still alive!

Just out of interest though what colour combination (interior inc) do you think looks best on a TF?

D Lamb

Quote from your link Christopher

"Note: CKD cars were delivered with primer only. This was also available as an orderable option so any paint color is original on one of these cars."
D Lamb

Darryl that's a tough question! Bit like asking which country has the prettiest girls.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Australia of course Petet 😁. Tough question I know and yet a really big decision. Nice to be able to go back to the original but not necessarily an option for me although I do reckon the interior was red as seen from one of the only original pictures taken when the car was purchased. Time to hassle some previous owners I think.

D Lamb

I was gunner say Ireland Darryl. Irish brunettes with blue eyes are pretty special. Check out the original colour combo swatches on CC's site, The Original M.G. TF Midget under Details. That should help you make up your mind. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Grass is always greener and all that 😊 Yes seen all the combos and all the various other colours the Internet has to hold. So what colour is your TD then Peter?
D Lamb

Since you have a family history of the car with a years of memories, I would paint the car your parents painted it but use a Factory MG color red. CKD gives you a lot of color options but I think it would be a nice gift to see your parents viewing the car all restored like it was back in the 60's and you also accomplish your goal to restore it close to Factory as possible. The red dash in your photo would indicate the car had red interior.

An original red TF can be seen here

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/TF9052/Thumbnails/mgtf_tf9052.htm

Good luck with your decision.

Frank



Frank Cronin

This is pretty much what she looks like at present Darryl. YL5 is the code. It was known as Sequoia Cream on the TC & Ivory on the TD & TF. Though apparently not a standard factory combo on the TD, my interior will be beige, however at least ten TC's were shipped to Sydney in that combination. I think Frank's suggestion is a good one. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Very nice Peter. You are doing a lovely job.

I think paint on the car will be a great boost to get her finished.

I agree with both of you incidently.The colour the pstents psinted it is very like the main body on Pauls 2 tone TF.

By the way would you go as far as rechroming the rocker cover and petrol tank sides (which my dad had fully chromed)! See pic 1 and 2 😊

D Lamb

Chrome rocker cover

D Lamb

I went to some pains to dechrome both my rocker cover & the engine breast plate. Personally I think chrome where it shouldn't be just looks hoonish. The tank sides should be chromed as that's the only way to get the edges done. Once back from the platers the flat area needs to be scuffed & then prepped for body colour. There's some good stuff in the archive on this. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

My parents got a hard time ftom a few people 50 years ago about the extra chrome!

Interesting Peter I didn't realise you chrome the whole of the side and then scuff. By the way how do I go about dechroming.

Is the engine brest plate on the side of the engine
Thanks
D Lamb

The platers do that & they seem to charge almost as much to remove the chrome as to plate it. I guess you could do it yourself with the appropriate chemicals but I've no idea how. Yes, on the side where the push rods & cam followers live. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 24/10/2015 and 10/11/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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