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MG TD TF 1500 - fuel pump

Out on a drive tonight I coasted to a stop...couldn't hear the fuel pump, but thought I was out of gas. Added a gallon and still no 'tick'. Undid the hot wire and when it sparked, i could hear a tick....did that a few times and got it home. Pulled the cover off the pump and the points looked like there were filings all over. Blew it clean and ran a piece of card through them...got the tick back.
How often should they be cleaned? (Gulp, I have 9,950 miles on it since i installed it new).
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon - Being that new, the pump should have a capacitor under the end cover to act in concert with the swamping resistor in the coil housing as an arc suppression circuit. With as much debris as you found under the cover, it sounds like either the capacitor or resistor (or both) are bad, causing excessive arcing of the points. There should be no need to periodically clean the points if the arc suppression circuit is doing its job. Another possibility is excessive voltage in the system. You might want to check the battery voltage while the engine is reved up around 3000 - 4000 RPM, it should not be more than about 14.5 volts. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Did it again this morning...cleaned the points and got a bit of 'substance' off them. Can I use electrical spray cleaner in there or would that cause problems?
(am thinking about the diode).
gblawson

Gord,

Why don't you make your pump breakerless?

I don't have the reference with me at this moment, but there is a way to add a little ciruitry to the pump and eliminate the points. Maybe Bud Kruger has it on his web-site.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gord Clark

You also have the option of a new SU electronic fuel pump (Moss has them). I put one in. It looks the same, but has a breakerless electronic switching mechanism. Works great.
Since this is a single point of failure for these cars it is much more reliable to put one of these in and forget about it.
Larry Ayres

I think Dave Dubois does it as well... Dave, my email to you bounced!
gblawson

I donn't think my pump has a capacitor. Mine is 11887. Is it possible the older pumps don't have them?
Russ Oakley

Russ - The number you quoted is a casting number for a part of the fuel pump. If your pump is an original SU fuel pump (that number doesn't follow the normal SU format), it is a AUA 25 pump. The older low pressure pumps didn't have a capacitor, they relied strictly on the swamping resistor in the coil housing for arc suppression.

Gordon - You have mail (I hope)
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

My pump started playing up about a month ago. One sharp tap with a hammer in the morning usually woke it up and it ran normally for a couple of weeks before failing half a mile down the road. When ordering a new pump from Brown & Gammons I asked if the new electronic version was more reliable. In a word NO. The spare parts man said their workshop had had so many returned for repair that they stopped selling them. They have also stopped selling polarity sensitive AZX pumps and now only stock the non polarity sensitive types which have AUA part numbers.
John
TF 5924
J James

Hi All

Had to jump in on this thread. I had Dave Dubois rebuild my pump and set it up. He basically makes it into an "electronic/solid state type" fuel pump but different than the Burlen method and it has been very reliable ever since. Not sure exactly how he does this but the pump looks and sounds original but works all the time. He did need to know if it was being used in a positive or negative ground car.

I am not affiliated with Dave in any way other than being extremely happy with the results of his rebuild.

Brian
Brian Smith

That has not been my experience. I bought an electronic pump from Burlen six years ago and in 10,000 miles since not the slightest hint of trouble. I then had my old one converted to electronic by Dave Dubois and carry it as a spare as a believer in belt and braces when dealing with new technology. Terry
Terry O'Brien

I have over 5000 miles on my Burlen/SU electronic Pump without any problems. It is possible that they had some initial problems that were corrected.
Larry Ayres

I would recommend the Burlen Fuel Systems all electronic SU fuel pumps as fast as I will recommend a pump that I have restored and converted to solid state. The all electronic SU pumps that Burlen Fuel Systems are a Hall effect circuit and works quite well. I used one of their conversion kits and put it in the pump on our MGB (which is our primary transportation vehicle) and it has worked well for the past 4 or 5 years. Burlen Fuel Systems had some problems initially when the pumps were first brought out, but I feel that the problems were probably the result of adjustments that weren't quite as they should be or the screws weren't tightened properly after the adjustments were made. I have not heard of any problems with the units in the last several years.

The only reason that I don't get the modification kits to install in customer's fuel pumps is that they are too expensive. My modification accomplishes the same thing (doing away with the points) through a different approach and also works well. I too, had reliability problems with my set up at first, but through continued work and learning about the pumps and how things needed to be adjusted, what adhesives would hold the magnet on the lower toggle in the face of the continued jaring fromt he toggle snapping up and down, I have now gotten the restored pumps to the point that very few are ever returned.

Interestingly, Burlen Fuel Systems and I were working on our respective modifications at the same time and apparently had the same period of going through a learning curve. Fortunately, both of us had sufficient customers that decided that we had a worthwhile product and stuck with us to allow us to get to the point of having a relaible product. I had an extremely interesting talk with the Burlen Fuel Systems fuel pump guru while we were in England a couple of years ago and he and I were able to share a lot of information regarding the pumps. There are a lot of things that will cause the pumps to fail that are not the fault of the pumps (clogged fuel lines, leaky fuel lines, bad grounds, Getting water into the pumps through the vents, etc.). Unfortunately a glogged line on the inlet side of the pump can cause long term damage to the pump without the owner knowing that anything has hapened until they start experiencing rapidly burning points, which is then chalked up to "those damned SU fuel pumps", when the problem was an owner that wasn't cognizent of what was happing in their car.

Anybody wanting to get an all electronic SU fuel pump, expecially those in England, would do well to order one directly from Burlen Fuel Systems. Their web site is at http://www.burlen.co.uk/ and they offer a 5% discount for orders on line. People inthe SU and Canada can also order on line and save a bit of money over Moss or even LBC even with the shipping from England.

The bottom line, as far as I am concerned is that all the SU fuel pumps, whether the standard points type, the all electronic units or the ones that I have restored and converted to solid state will serve the owner well for many years. The all electronic or the ones that I have converted to solid state will further stand up to long periods of inactivity (whether being layed up for the winter or several years during restoration) and be ready to spring into action as soon as power is applied. The standard points style pumps will have to have the points cleaned before use if they are inactive for long periods of time. Cheers -Dave
David DuBois

This thread was discussed between 04/04/2006 and 07/04/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

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