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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Gearbox Rebuild...I've heard it all.

I have been conducting a gearbox rebuild seminar for the MI Chapter of NEMGTR. One of our members needed a rebuild due a missing tooth on 1 st of the cluster gear. The chip then went into the roller bearing and destroyed the cage, which ended up in the bottom of the case a strips of metal. In the course of the rebuild it was found that the 1st/2nd sliding hub needed replacement as the teeth were worn down to about 0.030" on the edge of the gear. A common problem.
After receiveing a new MM gear it was found that the internal splines were approx. 0.0015" oversize and the gear would not slide onto his mainshaft or my spare.
Moss comments were to "FILE DOWN" the internal splines and make it fit. An impossible job to do correctly. I have to assume the are hardened which makes a it a grind job.
MM: "All the parts we have are all the same."
Well! They must all be wrong in my estimation.
Are these guys (MM) kidding us. You buy a $200.00+ part and the broaching is not to spec. and you get to "file it". One excuse was, "the machine shop makes them a little oversize to account for the wear on the spline. Hello! This gear does not slid in the spline, other gears slide on it.

Anyone have better source or a good used part.

Take care of your gearbox, it's a costly proposition to repair.
Colin Stafford

I can sympathizes with you . I recently bought enough parts from Moss to pay Craig's mortage for the next two years. While I'm glad that they are there for us I am a little concerned about the wide variance in the quality of the products. In the latest issue of motoring news a flash from 20 years ago taughts the quality and the effort that they went to to get the TD-TF steering wheel just right. Imagine my suprise to open the box and find not the correct marbled rim wheel but a solid, could a been a Ford, pvc rim. After installing the tie rod ends I found that they are slightly longer that the originals. They are to long to allow proper alignment. The sales person was helpful but told me that the tech department says that they are all the same. Their solution (mine actually) was to cut the ends off. I have looked through a lot of boxes of parts. Some very good. Some ok. Some disapointing. Ordered wheel studs from Abingdon because Moss had theirs on back order for over a year(get this they make their own) and also a right radiator side panel that Moss no longer lists. The studs were good but the left hand side panel from Moss was a exact duplicate to the Trashed original but the Abingdon was not. It was much better than what I had but it wasn't what I expected. I think that when it comes to many of these parts, most of us are happy to have something that we can make do with. A good exapmle is the distributor cap which Moss has out now. They know its not up to snuff but what other choice do we have? I just wish that when they list parts (like the steering wheel) that if it isn't a exact reproduction that they would tell us so. Certainly on the mechanical end of things which are not just cosmetic diferences I don't think Moss, Abigndon, or anyone else should expect us to accept inferior parts that we have to customise to make them work. I for one am willing to pay the extra few bucks if thats what it takes to get a part thats manufactured correctly. I been through the archives and the list is lenghty with parts that don't fit or fail prematurly. I'm happy that Moss and Abingdon are there but for the money I just shelled out (and yes there is going to be a lot more before I'm done) I don't think anybody should have to customise so called stock parts.
OK Craig, I'm listening.

LaVerne
LED DOWNEY

Gentlemen,

Having done a few T-type gearboxes (100+) in my time I can sympathise with you. In regards to the first gear sliding hub, there seems to be two diameters out there. I recently ran into the same problem. Couldn't get it on the shaft for a TF I was working on, but it fit fine on a early TD box I had. I popped it in a friends lathe and opened up the bore about 0.003" fit fine after that. LaVerne, the original TD steering Wheels were not "marbled", the marbled wheels were replacements supplied by Bluemels starting in the late 50's. The correct TD wheel has a "swirl" in the plastic, but not the multicolored design so many of us take as original. I've reserched this thorny question over the years, both in England (spoke to Bluemel's)and looking at cars here. Case in point is a local '53 TD MkII one owner car with less than 15K miles on it, No marbled wheel there! As too the Moss quality issue, yes there are some parts they could do better on and there are some they do far better that original. Witness crankshafts and exhaust valves, the originals were S**T and the new replacements are excellent.
I remember when Howard Goldman, (current owner Robert's father) was debating as to remake T crankshafts or not around 1979, he was looking at a expense of over $100K just for tooling, but he did it anyway unsure if he would see any profit in it. Try skipping down to your local Nissan dealership and ordering a new crank for your 25 year old Datsun 210.
Brace your self for laughter. Point is we should be gratefull we can buy anything new for these old cars, the only reason we can is that there are enthusists on both side of the parts counter that make it possible.
Ciao for now, Ben T.
Ben Travato

This is from orig. gearbox of a TD Mk II and a TF.

Ben.....I think you are right on the money about the 0.003" undersize condition.....this is what I was able to measure on the parts. The outside dia. of the shaft, across the spline is 1.150".....I would bet this is the "large" dia. shaft you have mentioned. I have three shafts (TF) and they are all the same dia.
You would think that someone at MM would be aware of this problem. It would appear that someone supplied the broach shop with a shaft and told them to make parts fit....unfortunatley for us, they gave them the smaller dia. shaft.

Did you encounter any problem in turning down the ID of the gear? Running a cutting tool up against the edges of the splines is not good practice in a machine shop.

Thnaks for the enlightment.

Colin Stafford

Colin,

I didn't have too much trouble machining the sliding hub, As I was only taking a light cut. It is just mild steel as opposed to the hardened surface of the gear. I used a boring bar with a standard cutter. I've made it sound quite simple as I have access to the equipment, but any competent machine shop should be able to do this for a nominal fee.

Ben
Ben Travato

Ben, I think you may have missed my point. I understand that there has to be a balance between what the customer will pay and what it costs to tool up and market any given part and allow for a reasonable profit. As I stated before I am not here to beat up Moss. I am happy that they are here to supply parts for these old jewels. I just think that sometimes they could do a better job of describing what your getting(wheel as example). I don't think it would have cost any more to make the tie rod ends the correct length than to make the ones that are too long. If we are just buying universal parts I just as well go down to my local NAPA and start sorting through the bins. One size does not fit all and if I have to modify a part to make it work, please just say so in advance and you won't get a phone call from me complaining that it doesn't fit.

Just my two cents worth.

LaVerne
LaVerne

My 2 cents: Dad got the TD when I was in high school (mid-70s). Between Moss and Abingdon, I would guess no more than half of the parts were available, if that many at that time. We spent some time tracking down a used cluster (or 2nd?) gear, as there were no new ones in the world. There were no crankshafts, almost no sheet metal available, only vinyl wiring harnesses, backorders were constant, etc. No TF 1500 pistons in the late 80s either. Yes, it is annoying when something isn't just right. Yes, I was ready to choke someone at Moss over the 4.55 gear/Cedarstrand "instruction" manual fiasco. But you just have to put it into perspective to realize how lucky we are to have almost everything out there and how relatively cheap stuff for these cars is! George PS- I too have the "original" pale plastic (and ugly)rim. Any thoughts on steering wheel covers?
George Butz

Ben....thanks for the info. I have personal access to a couple machine shops in the Detroit area and they both have equipment to fix this problem.
In fact my best friend (also a car restorer) was machining a series of crankcases for an early 1900's Fiat race car. Some one in Eur. had these blocks made and he is machining them on a multi-turret CNC machine.
Huge engines, that are qbout as big as 4 XPEG blocks. The machining data was all retrieved from an exsisting block via a laser scan/tracer.
This guy is very talented and acually made his own ring gear for a 1910 Buick.
I re-sleeve all my own hydraulics.

Nice to have friends in the right places.

We just need to have suppliers with good QC and to be able to make the part too "print", not just duplicate what's given them. Unless you have the right methodology to duplicate its impossible to get it right.
Colin Stafford

I've been down this road with Moss because the were slightly cheaper than Abingdon Spares.. well at first anyway. Moss first said you have to "lap" the gear on the shaft. To do this it has to go on the shaft in the first place. Then they said this is a common problem and to send it back at my cost (it was then going in the scrap heap) and they would send me another but... I may very well have the same problem with the next one. I sent it back, period. I called Bobbie at Abingdon Spares and she put me on hold while she cheched to see if it fir one of her main shafts, and it did. She was up front and said they have the same problem, but at least she warned me up front. When I got it, it wouln'd not go all the way on my main shaft, but at least this one started.. In about 45 minutes with sandpaper and some small files it fit.

Although the gears came from the same source, at leaset Abingdons Spares has caring people who are willing to help.

That's my 2 cents.
Ron Boisvert

MOSS Logic.......One size fits all, but don't tell anyone or send a tech. bulletin with the part....just let the chumps figure it out when the gear arrives.
All the gears come from the same supplier and are not fitted to late TD or TF gearboxe mainshafts.
You pay's your bucks and take your lumps and are thankfull you can have the part. I guess.
Files and sandpaper do not make for accurate parts.
Colin Stafford

When we did the Ocean-to-Ocean (OOTTT) trip in 1986, 7000 miles in 3 weeks in T-Types, it wasn't without a great deal of maintenance on the cars. A few of the 50 cars experienced pilot bearing failures and had to change them on the road. That's a tough job in a shop, and a real pain in a motel parking lot. The lot of pilot bearings they came from was apparently known to contain many bad ones, but what can you do? Neither Moss nor Abingdon nor any of the dealers can test or measure or trial-fit each and every piece for correct size, fit, tolerances, etc. So in some instances you find out about these things only after they get out to the customers. The remarkable thing to me is not how many parts are less than perfect, but rather how many of the parts Moss sells are actually pretty good, and at a fairly reasonable price.

Oh, by the way, guess who was on the OOTTT with the rest of us T-Series MG nuts? Yep, Moss Motors' owner Howard Goldman was there in his TC, son Robert (now the Moss boss) was driving the Moss TD "pick-up truck" (you had to see that to believe it) and even Mom Dottie Goldman was there, driving a station wagon full of spares and towing a trailer in case of need. Point is, the folks at Moss have ALWAYS been real MG enthusiasts as well as running a business, and I have no doubt at all that most of the time Moss is doing the best job possible of walking that tightrope between "perfect" spares and "affordable" spares. I try to remind myself that the parts for T-series MGs were hand-fitted at the factory, where many bits from the bin could be tried until one was found to fit, because many of the spares then weren't even as good as they are today.

Cheers!!
J. Keller

This thread was discussed between 04/04/2005 and 09/04/2005

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