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MG TD TF 1500 - How about a Buick/Olds/Rover aluminum V8?

Blasphemy of the hghest order?

Good morning gentlemen:

I was pondering last night what I'd do if the XPAG expired catastrophically, and the thought crossed my mind that since XPAGs are getting pretty hard to find, perhaps an aluminum V8 with an MGB mounting kit would work.

Do any of you know whether such a transplant has ever been made? Now I know the re-engineering wold be enourmous: cooling, electrics, transmission, instruments, firewall, floor, differential, and a thousand other things, but don't you think it would interesting to see if a TD+8 could work/has ever worked?

Here's the fundamental engineering question, though [well, I think it is:] Is there room for the engine under the bonnet without a total butchering of the chassis and sheet metal? Correct me if I'm wrong, but am I correct in understanding that when the V8 goes in the MGB, it goes in with a minimum of fuss - even in cars that were built before the factory started doing the job? I'm thinking specifically of the width of the bonnet as it tapers toward the radiator, and whether there would be enough width to clear the forward portion of the cylinder banks. I know that Shelby and Ken Miles built "Old Yeller" with a Ford flathead V8, but they ran without the sides of the bonnet and that was with a TC - I'm thinking TD and whether the whole bonnet could be used so that the conversion would look stock.

Bear in mind I'm not talking about a Ford or GM smallblock transplant, I'm thinking about just the aluminum swap. Even in a low state of 2-barrel tuning, there would be 160 horsepower and 200 foot pounds of torque on tap - and wouldn't that be a dainty dish to set before the king...

[And no, the xpag and the supercharger and the crane cam are not going out the window or on to eBay, this is just Saturday morning blue-skying before the caffeine kicks in...]

Best wishes,
Dave Jorgensen
Dave Jorgensen

Heretic !! Have the blaggard flogged , sir !!

To answer your question: Yes it has been done here in Australia certinly at least once to my knowledge.

I saw an example of this conversion a few years ago at an MG CC display day.
Apart from a polite casual interest it did not get much attention from me at the time since I was more focused on B and C models.

The car had a set of engine side panels custom made to clear the Rover rocker covers but apart fom that and the wheel flares to allow clearance for the wider tyres all the panels were original so it looked relatively standard.

Went like a scalded cat too by all accounts !

cheers , Pete.


Peter Thomas

Should be plenty of room for a Mazda rotary. Volvo 1800's seemed to be popular back in the day. I saw a nice Miata engine in a MGB the other day. Some guy was talking seriously about producing blocks a while ago. How about an electric? Lots of food for thought, but there's nothing like keeping the character of an old car. I love to dream about stuff on long winter nights, too.
Tom

Most of the MG TD V8 conversions I've seen were pretty rough to say the least...
Mostly a large chunk of the bulkhead was hacked away leaving almost no foot space.
Besides: why does one need such an enormous amount of power in such a light vehicle ?
Personally I think a V8 conversion in a TD should be "in the spirit of that time". A Ford sidevalve maybe ??? These seem to fit rather well.
However: I'm going to stick with my XPAG !!!
Cheers,

Nick, 52TD/63midget/74MGB.
D.G.J. Herwegh

I don't know where it ended up...but there is (or "was") a Black TF out there somewhere with a Volvo 1800, front disc brakes and a 5 speed!
I know because I purchased it on an ebay auction years ago...but back out of the deal when I went to pick it up because it was NOT an "original TF1500" as advertised.
It ran great, but the PO was unwilling to discount and I was not willing to pay the price. Fact is...the guy was somewhat of an idiot and refused to accept that what he had was not "an original numbers matching TF1500". It was actually (IMHO) a 1250 that had been fitted with "Naylor" fiberglass wings as well as many other parts from the Naylor?
The whole car seemed to have been built from (perhaps) a wreck of two cars.
Nice ...but not what I was looking for at the time!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Aha!

The flathead V8 idea is a good one, isn't it. The spirit of the '50's with a little torque thrown in for good measure - and a 3-carb manifold sitting inside the V... where are the specs that Shelby and Miles used for their V8 TC in the early '50's?

There were two different sizes of Ford flathead 8, weren't there? One generally used in North America and one for overseas? How about the smaller one? Was it lighter - weight distribution and neutral handling would still be an important thing in this whole affair - hence the Buick V8, right? If the aluminum V8 is lighter than the B's block, is it also lighter than the XPAG?

But you're right, no hatchet jobs, and no garbage rat-rods. We need a cheeky, very well-heeled enthusiast to pave the way with a proper sports car and the whole thing done properly - Jay Leno, are you reading this?

Oh, I know it's all silliness, but why should only Morgan +8 owners have go-fast bragging rights?

Okay, I'll settle down now...

Dave J.
Dave Jorgensen

Having driven a V8 powered TD. I think that there is a much better way to go. I was watching” My Classic Car" They showed someone had put in an Olds overhead twin cam four. This would be (IMHO) a much better swap.

It’s not your daddy’s MG

Tom
T. L. Manion Thomas

There was a fella at Melbourne MGCC Concours last year with a TD running a red Holden 6cyl in it.

Straight 6 must run ok, wasn't all that much room for it and the bigger radiator even under the upright TD bonnet.

Worst was it doesn't sound anything like an MG... so why bother?


I'm wanting a nice Rover V8 in my roadster too... but I'll be waiting till I can afford to rebuild myself a Morgan Plus-8.

(everyone knows they need total groundup rebuilding every 10y, don't they??!)
Will

Now that we are firmly in the realms of phantasy, it is nice to dream on and imagine a few "might have been " possibilities...
Back in 1950, the Nuffield organisation had everything in house to make a much more potent version of the TD. Unfortunately they never applied "Badge Engineering" as did their successors the BMC company. But imagine what could have been possible !
Since 1949 they were assembling the Riley RM saloons in Abingdon. Riley had two splendid engines: a 1,5 and a 2,5 unit. The two and a half litre was more or less the same vintage as the Morris XP unit chosen for the TD. However, this was much more a sporting unit ! Its DOHC engine produced more than 100 bhp, giving the 3,135 lb's heavy Riley a top speed of 94 mph !
Suppose this engine would have fitted in the 1,000 lb's lighter MG TD ! I wonder what its performance would have been...
Maybe the car which would have originated could have been sold as an upmarket TD (Mk II ???) OR as a post war Riley (Sprite ???) sportscar.
Dreaming on further: the survival of a Riley Sportscar into the BMC era might have prevented the start-up of the Austin Healey marque!!! With a two and a half litre sportscar, Nuffield and/or BMC might have had a true competitor in the class heavily dominated by the Triumph Tr 2.
I have never read about it, but I'm sure it must have been a tempting idea to both John Thornley and Syd Enever to install a fully tuned 2,5 Riley engine in a MG TD chassis. Remember that this engine was the basis of the first post war Healey motorcars !
Talking about a lost opportunity....
Cheers,

Nick, 52 TD
D.G.J. Herwegh

Re: Buick Aluminum V8 in a TD

I saw a very clean install a few years back at the annual Boston Antique Car Club Show. Guy from western Mass had a home built TD/V8 with equipped with a late model T-Bird supercharger.

Beautiful install, dressed up with chrome, allen head bolts throughout, real show quality under the hood.

They rest of it was decent to very nice daily driver condition. The only exterior telltales were the dual exhausts, wider than stock rear track and wheels (he used a cut down Ford rear end (IIRC), and, of course the sound.

Nice job all in all, the car ended up on Ebay eventually...I remember him looking for around 20k for it. Don't know how he did with that.

I also remember the owner telling me that performance was remarkable and handling was pretty good (his opinion). He did say heat was a problem, (it was July) and I remember the bell housing intruding into the footwell area pretty noticably...nothing your average hot rodder can't deal with.

Not my cup of tea, as it seems like a bit of overkill, even if the relative engine weights are similar.

As I've stated previously, my idea of a good swap is the Volvo b-18, which was fairly common back in the day.

Stock b-18 twin carb engines put out 115 horses, looked and weighed close to the XPAG, drops right in, including the shifter with the P1800 remote set up, 5 main bearings, smooth, dead reliable and very stout.

In fact, I have one in my garage...the car came with it and aside from the dirty looks from the T Series fraternity, which I can live with, there's really no reason to dump it.
Peter Whelan

For inspiration, here's an MG Y with a Rover V8 fitted. I don't know if the Y's enginebay is wider.

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccy/specialys/v8y.htm
Willem van der Veer

Peter,

The TD that you have with the Volvo engine,,,
might be the same one I saw at a G.O.F. in Plymoth Mass. many years ago,, is it blue and fitted with an auto trans ???

I saw a TD with a Rover V-8 at one of the Westminster Vt Car Shows, also many years ago.. The only thing that looked different from the outside was the exhaust and rear wheels,,, I believe it was a narrowed Ford rear end,,,

SPW
Steve Wincze

In 1937 Ford USA came out with a 60 H.P. flathead V-8. A tiny little thing that many converted for small boat use because of its size and weight. It was also used in the midget race car circuit in the late 30's and 40's. Many race accessories were available then to hop it up, such as offy heads etc. etc. Problem is you would be hard pressed to find one today, I'm sure.
SEAMUS
James Healy

Dave:
There is a Rover with V-8 in "Pull Your Part" right now.
Can I have your supercharged XPAG?
:-)
Jc
John Crawley

John,

"Pull Your Part" ?????? What is that ????

SPW
Steve Wincze

Hey...who needs a V8.... http://gblandco.com/gb/bmgtd.jpg
gblawson - TD#27667

Still rummaging with Photoshop Gordon ???
Wait a minute.....you wouldn't dare, would you ?
Cheers,

Nick, 52TD
D.G.J. Herwegh

Well John, regarding your stealing of the supercharged XPAG, Ken Miles has all the bits and pieces all over the shop floor - I guess you'd have to see what the bribe would be to have them disappear...
... and John, did you know that the cycle fenders that were on your green TC are now on the front of my TD? Brian and Phil came up with a pair of super-dooper sculpted cycle fenders for your old TC, and I took yours. Take a look on the pictures page - you'll see that those fenders in my picture look a tad familiar. I can't wait to see them stripped down so that I can see the red paint that Ben put on them 35 years ago. Boy, how time flies.
But you're right - $300 for a Rover V8 block - it's tempting. But that's what Adam said right before he bit the apple...

cheers,
Dave
Dave Jorgensen

Steve:
Pull-Your-Part" is our local version of a "Pick-your-part" bone yard - a take it off yourself wrecking yard.
Unbelievable what shows up there from time to time.
Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

Also . . . about non-original engines.
I own two TFs – one very original except for 4.3 gears and one with full MGB power train. The MG TF-B is great to drive. It has: B engine, transmission, overdrive, duel master brake cylinder, front disks, B shocks and a B differential – all installed with very little cutting. It starts, runs, accelerates, stops and idles like a modern car.
The “real” TF is a low mileage car restored to original. It drives like a T-series i.e. a car designed 50 years ago.
So guess which car is for sale? You got it . . . the B powered car . . . it is just not as much fun as the original.
Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

John:
If I'd known about your hot-rod B-powered TF, I wouldn't have started on this hot-rod TD project. So near [literally,] and yet so far...
Dave J.
Dave Jorgensen

I have a TF 1500 that the engine blew a rod out the side in the early 70’s. An xpeg engine could not be had so previous owner shoehorned a 2000 Volvo in. The carbs are 1.5 su’s on the right side. He did a great job not cutting anything but rear trans bracket on frame. After I received it I fit it with a Volvo fully sync four speed with laycock overdrive 3rd and 4th making it a 6 speed only shortening drive line. The car is all original except hydraulic clutch engine and trany. The gearshift even come out in the right place. I am now making a bracket to move the generator to the left side. Have been clocked by the authorities going over 110 MPH. This all sounds great but wish I had or could find an affordable xpeg 1500 engine. I do have a 1950 TD in pieces matching #’s but will probably drive the TF1500.
Jay Dyck

It's a TC, but here is a Ford V8 installed. Scroll down to the 5th entry.

http://www.mgnuts.com/mg/modsearly/
Steve Simmons

This thread was discussed between 20/01/2007 and 01/02/2007

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