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MG TD TF 1500 - How to tighten brake line bolt

After replacing the master and brake cylinders I filled up the master and started pumping. Leaks everywhere. Found I really have to use the gorilla strength on all the lines and fittings.

The problem is the left front brake, foremost fitting, where the brake bleeder is. Because of the steering linkage and the outward angle of the brake bleeder I can only get the open end of a combination wrench on it. When I try to give it the gorilla tightening, the wrench slips off. Any suggestions of how to tighten this one?

Take off part of the steering linkage? Make a custom angled box end wrench?


CH Hull

CH,

From the picture - I may be mistaken - but it looks like you have a copper washer under the bleeding nipple?

I don't think that's the case on my TD?

This should tighten up metal to metal, inside to form the seal. Just a little loose will allow brake fluid to pass through it.

Are you sure that washer (if it is there) is necessary?

Rod
R D Jones

There is no copper washer under the bleeder nipple. There is a copper washer on both sides of the bandjo bolt (not sure if that is the correct term for the bolt). I read somewhere about annealing the copper washers first. Or putting something on the threads.
CH Hull

Ch, I did not have your issue. There is a difference in dot5 vs. other fluids..it seems to give owners more issues when first trying to seal the system. I used dot5 without difficulty in the transition. I did not have to use anything beyond moderate/normal torque. There was a recent thread where other posters faced this problem and they tightened..let sit for a day or so, retightened and repeated in another day. Solved the problem the poster had with leaks. Regards, Tom
tom peterson

You should not need "gorilla strength." Did you use new copper sealing washers? Are the sealing faces of the banjo, the banjo bolt, and the cylinder clean and undamaged?
Rob Edwards

CH,

You sure there is no washer under that nipple?? :)

Anything underneath it - will prevent a good seat

It does not require undue force to close it, to make it leak-proof
.
A simple open end spanner is all I have ever had to use.

I'm using dot4 and can't speak to dot5 but the closing principle of the bleed nipple is the same for both.

Gorilla force is not required if everything is in order.

Have you tried another nipple? Failing that the seat in the Banjo union may be damaged.

Never seen that though.

Rod


R D Jones

CH,
I was unable to understand if it is the Banjo bolt leaking or the bleeder valve. Assuming the Banjo bolt.

Bleeder:
Is it coming out of the center hole, or from around the threads.

If it is coming out of the center hole then the problem is with the seat on the very bottom of the bleeder threads, this may be difficult to fix, as you have to match the two surfaces.

If the threads, you may be able to use a sealant.

Either way. you could try a bit of teflon on the threads to give a bit more compression. (note teflon tape is not a sealant, it allows for more compression on pipe fitting)

Banjo.
I just completed the same exercise, and I believe I mounted this unit onto the back plate first, then mounted the back plate to the hub. I recall I had a similar problem.

Also, yes you need copper washers, and you need to use new washers. Also, if there is some corrosion or deformation on the surface you have to clean that up, or even the copper washer will not give adequate sealing.

Dot 5. did the same conversion and it went ok, but it takes a long time to get the bubbles out (still not sure I have them all!)

Dean E

Same question: the banjo bolt, or the bleeder nipple?
George Butz

CH, that banjo bolt is a pain. One thing that I found is that changing the angle of the wheel can make a big difference in access to the bolt head. Crank the steering a bit and I think you'll find that you can get a box end wrench on the bolt head. The comments about the importance of clean copper washers and sealing area are very important. Bud
Bud Krueger

It is the banjo bolt that is leaking. I have new copper washers to go along with the new brake cylinders and flex lines. No leaking of the nipples, just the banjo bolts. Had it on two others, and just took a bit more tightening. More tighten that I though I needed.
CH Hull

CH

Sorry if I miss read your post and it is the banjo bolt you are trying to get at and is leaking.

Like Dean as said, mount the banjo union to the back plate then mount the plate to the hub.

I would also agree new annealed copper washers are a must and clean, smooth surfaces all round - to get a good seal. Excessive force should not be necessary.

When I replaced the two front cylinders on the drivers side this year. I could get enough torque on the bolt as it was - without removing the brake plate and using new washers got no leeks.

Rod
R D Jones

Banjo fittings are pretty common and through the years a few have give me problems. Generally a new washer or annealing the old one has fixed the problem. Some do seem to require a good amount of torque to seal.

I'd try a different washer or annealing one. Through the years I've heated, ground and bent plenty of wrenches just for one job. I have one box end that's bent like a pretzel and cut like a tubing wrench to be able to fit over a stud holding an aircraft vacuum pump. It made the job possible. Sacrifice a wrench rather than your sanity.
J E Carroll

You might remove the steering arm to gain access. I'd loosen the nut to where it is flush to the threads and use a heavy hammer and an aluminum bar to bop the tapered arm free of the knuckle. My wife would recommend shooting it with WD-40, first. She scolds me for not using it everywhere.
Besides annealing the copper washers, I look for marks and sand on fine sandpaper if it warrants.
I'd also root through the tools to find a six point socket or box end.
I guess this is one more reason in favor of switching to disc brakes upfront.
JIM NORTHRUP SR

You may already be aware, but if not I offer the following. If you feel Jim's advice on sanding would work in your application place the abrasive paper on plate glass. The faces must not only be smooth but parallel. Best of luck. Regards, Tom
tom peterson

Tightening up the front banjo bolts was one of the few jobs with my brakes that went well. I tightened the bolt up with an open ended spanner but with the shat of the banjo at 11 o'clock (or 1 o'clock looking the other way) and then tapped it to vertical. This took the bolt with it and really tightened it.

Jan T
J Targosz

Remove the drum, loosen the nuts that hold the cylinder to the backplate so just a couple threats still caught and move the cylinder out. That may give you enough room. I'm going to have to veto the idea about removing the steering arm. Most likely it is well frozen in the knuckle and a press will be needed to remove it. The comments above about totally clean and perfect mating surfaces are right on. Make sure the outer copper washer is the bigger diameter one that fits over the shoulder on the banjo bolt. Your bolt looks messed up also, you may need a new bolt. George
George Butz

CH, I used Dot5 and had several leaks at first, but I didn't take anything back apart. I just gradually kept tightening everything up a day at a time until all the leaks stopped. Remember most of the fittings are brass and aluminum so you don't want to really torque anthing down too much. The copper washers will keep compressing if you give them time. It took me about month but now I am leak free. If this would have been regular brake fluid I would be repainting my wheels and alot of other areas.
Richard Taylor TD3983

This thread was discussed between 14/09/2013 and 15/09/2013

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