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MG TD TF 1500 - Interior Colors

I've been looking at the interior kits Moss hason sale trying to decide on the interior color I want. The car is red / red from the factory but I'm thinking of changing the interior color to Biscuit as described in the "The Original MG TF midget". The trouble is what color is Biscuit? Is it the shade of the "Biscuit" sample I have from Moss or another color. Does anyone know what shade Biscuit really is or where I can get a sample that truly matches the factory color as I want the authenticity of a factory color. Thanks, Keith


K. G. Meyer

I can't say on the biscuit..and I have it in both the TF and the TD....but I can say without a doubt that the red they sell is way off.
MG LaVerne

Keith I had biscuit in my TR6 and as I remember it was pretty close to that. It has been my experience with interior matching that even looking at a OEM car can be misleading because of fading over time.

In doing a couple of restorations as long as I did the whole interior it looked good but when I tried to match into an existing interior well it always seemed to be a difference in shade. Whether it was dye lot, manufacturer, etc, it always seemed just a little bit off. Funny black seems to be the least offensive in that area.

My suggestion is buy all the parts at one time. Kind of like doing tile in a bathroom, etc.

Joe

JWP Policastro

I am a bit dissapointed with the MOSS "leather" kit that I put in our TD a few years back,,, It seems that the drivers seat is getting warn very fast in the seat where the "leather" creases when a person sits in it,,, Nothing to do with the instalation,,, Seems like the "leather" is very, very thin and adheared to some sort of white mesh backing material, which is now showing through... I'm sure it won't be long before it rips,,,,

I tried to upload a picture, but it doesn't work right now,, I'll try later

SPW

STEVE WINCZE

Picture


STEVE WINCZE


Check out http://www.wmmcollingburn.com/ and look at his interior colors. The "Tan originally called Biscuit" on his page looks similar to the Moss Biscuit in your photo.

I wasn't happy with the Moss red either.
Frank Cronin

Doing a real quick search, I think it is called bonded leather,,,,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Steve,
Are you sure that is "leather"? The shininess and apparent thinness leads me to believe you have vinyl, not leather. Leather does not have a mesh backing, vinyl does. The original tops and parts of the seat facings were leather, with vinyl only used where there was no chance of wear from use.

Lew Palmer

Steve, Moss used to offer a vinyl option for seat upholstery-maybe that is what you have. My leather from Moss has no backing and seems to be of high quality.
JB
J K Barter

The TF interior was Tan. it's darker than Biscuit that the TC and TD used. looking at the Moss samples in the image the Tan is closer.


Rod Brayshaw

Here is a picture showing my little collection of original TF upholstery samples with the factory biscuit.
If anyone has some scrap of biscuit piping or leather I would love to add it to my samples.

Matthew.


M Magilton

And here is an unrestored biscuit interior from a car I documented some years back. Note the matching dash.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Matthew I researched TF Tan some time ago and although the literature often stated the TF is Biscuit it is not the same colour as the TC & TD that is correctly called Biscuit.

I have original samples of all the interior ICI PVC and leather.

The confusion will continue if enthusiasts call the TF Biscuit when its known in the trade as TF Tan.

Collingburn has good samples not sure about Moss.
ROD BRAYSHAW

Rod: I updated the TF site and switched all of the Biscuit labels to tan and put in a note as above.
Chris Couper

Keith, check out Heritage Upholstery and trim. I have their samples and have talked to them and believe their biscuit is closer to the original color.
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

The question of the upholstery colour is discussed in Malcolm Green's book "T Series Restoration Guide". In 1938 with the arrival of the Tickford, the only four upholstery colours available were "biscuit, red, brown or grey". He goes on to say that post war, upholstery was available in just three colours - red, green & beige. I'd always been advised that beige was a lighter colour than either tan, brown or biscuit but am unable/unwilling to be dogmatic about it as I've never seen an original beige sample. Maybe the colour changed on TF's. Maybe Green has it wrong. I'm using a beige long grain vinyl sourced locally from a motor trimmer supplier on my TD, simply because this is the colour mentioned in Greene (on page 102) & the long grain is pretty close to the original rexine.

From what I've seen most if not all kits require the panels to be trimmed to get a perfect fit. I couldn't see the sense in buying an expensive kit only to have to modify it. Pulling back the edges & reshaping the board ensures the hidem ends up too close to the edge in places. Not a good look as the devil's in the detail. Why not buy the material in the original colour & tailor make it yourself? Only two hurdles here, the door panels (which can be made yourself) but will have to be sewn professionally & the hidem. I sent a strip of my vinyl to England & had the 1/2" binding made, as nobody here has a machine with a suitable double foot. Most kits now use 5/8" hidem which is incorrect & another reason to avoid them. Doing it yourself is very satisfying, gives you a better job & is also a whole lot cheaper! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Rod, if the factory were happy to describe the colour as biscuit, then so am I. Red, green and blue describe a range of colours, so does biscuit.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Peter, here is a double image of unrestored TB upholstery that you may like to see. This car lives not far from me and was once owned by a young RAAF pilot who sadly died in 1943. The rexine is much thinner, not sure if it has darkened over time (ignore the seats). This car still has its Lanes dealers plate which you can see. It is amazing how little the upholstery pattern changed through to 1955.
Yes, the modern hidem is too wide.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Hi Matthew. Thanks for the pic. I'll store it with a few others I have of early original trim. Oddly enough the seats are a similiar tone to the beige I've used, but perhaps the TB seats are a little paler. Thanks mate.
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Lew,JB,
Lets see what Kieth gets,, when I purchased it from Moss, it was advertised (and priced) as "Leather",, and there is a difference between the seat bottoms/backs and the sides which Moss stated are vynal,,, the shine is from a very recient rteatment with Lexol Leather treatment.

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Biscuit in our MGB. Little fuzzy, sorry. PJ




Paul S Jennings

Keith,
can you post a pic of the back of one of the "leather" samples?

Thanks,
SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Steve, here is the back of my Moss leather and vinyl.


J K Barter

matthew

Perhaps a compromise could be to describe as TD Biscuit and TF Biscuit, as both are quite different colours. I prefer TF Tan.

Having fitted both TD and TF I should have a sample of the hidem in these two colours so will take a pic and post same.

ROD BRAYSHAW

TD Biscuit and TF Biscuit? Great idea Rod!
Here is a pic I took of TD0268 showing its factory upholstery.

Matthew.


M Magilton

image of the two shades the darker is TF, both PVC material, note the mottled colours.


ROD BRAYSHAW

Ray,
Are all of the TF upholstery colors different from the TD colors? The green and the biscuit are different- is the red different also?
J K Barter

Looks like leather to me Steve. The back side has a pad sewn in with the "pleats". I'm no expert but the very light areas look like abrasion marks. The larger dark areas look like flaws in either the leather or the finish .


MG LaVerne

Interior colours are,

The TD and TF Green was called Almond Green, the TD and TF Red was called Regency Red, the Biscuit was TD only and the darker Tan shade of Factory termed Biscuit was TF only.

TC and pre war had different colours.
ROD BRAYSHAW

From what I read above it appears that upholstery colors are similar to paint colors. That is there does not appear to be a definitive shade or a consensus of that shade or its name. I've attached a picture of the sample sheet of the current Moss leather colors. The colors they show are Biscuit, Tan and Honey Tan. I would like to know what everyone thinks is the closest shade to the original shade whatever color it is called. Thanks, Keith

PS: All the samples that Moss supplied (shown here) have no backing on them.


K. G. Meyer

Moss Tan
ROD BRAYSHAW

Just re-read you initial post Keith. Looking at the Moss sample sheet you've provided, the heading on the sheet suggests that none of the samples are correct for your TF. To give you some idea of the trouble I went to & the difficulty I encountered, in 1969 I purchased about 6 metres of hidem binding for my TD from Phil Redhead @ Sportsparts here in Sydney. It was reputed to be NOS in beige. It had a very feint almost blue "grain". I was not able to buy vinyl to match so went with the closest match I could find & sourced new hidem made in the correct 1/2" width, from the same new material. As I said above, this was specially made in England.

I kept the original hidem & still have it. Many years later I came across a TD that was upholstered with exactly the same material & I took a couple of snaps. This is the only other time I have ever seen it. (See attached pic). Though it doesn't show it, this beige upholstery also has the same feint, almost blue "grain" as my NOS hidem. As you can see, the Moss biscuit, tan & honey tan are nothing like the TD NOS beige. I realize you have a TF so make of this what you will. In my search for originality in 1969 I got nowhere fairly rapidly. I hope you have more success than I did, but frankly I would be really surprised if you did any better 45 years later. Anyhow good luck with your quest. Cheers
Peter TD 5801.


P Hehir

Today I received an original TF brochure that I purchased off eBay. The brochure is dated 10-53. On the back page it has a section titled "Choose Colors and Trim". Below the title is shown four body colors and three upholstery colors.
The paragraph below the color chart states:
"The M.G. "Series T.F." is available with left-hand drive in black with red, green or biscuit upholstery; red with red or biscuit upholstery; green with green or biscuit upholstery; ivory with red or green upholstery,"
While it is difficult to compare colors especially off the Internet, the biscuit shown in the original TF brochure is close to the color images posted by Matthew. In my estimation, none of the Moss colors match the brochures color.
Hope this helps (but it will probably add to the confusion!)
Mark Stolzenburg
Chesterfield, Missouri USA
TF 8263
Mark Stolzenburg

I don't want to confuse this excellent discussion but just to cause problems:

I have a copy of a TD brochure from 1950 or 1951 (in country), where the colors are listed as:


Chris Couper

Part of the problem is that we are treating names as if they were documentary evidence when their original intention was simply to sound appealing to the potential buyer. Best to refer to photos of original samples if/when available.

Matthew.

More pics of TF6388 original upholstery.


M Magilton

The only problem with matching any original printed material or actual leather or rexine is that it is 60 years old. Unless kept in the dark in a nitrogen filled bag, the color has likely changed a lot over time. My biscuit/biege or whatever it was called 10 years ago Moss interior has held up well. The vinyl parts color is darker, much more textured and patterned than my original inside glovebox door rexine. The rexine looks more like plastic coated bookbinding, and is very thin and really cheesy looking. George
George Butz

Heres a bit more confusion. I asked Abingdon Spares to send me a sample card of there upholstery. I've laid the two color samples one above the other. Moss samples are round and Abingdon samples are square. The two tans are similar shades but not matches and the two bisuits are definitely different shades. Thanks everyone for your comments and help. Keith


K. G. Meyer

For comparison from the bottom - up - Moss, Abingdon Spares and Mike Collingburn red leather.


Frank Cronin

I checked Moss, Heritage and Abingdon for my TF. I had not heard of Collingburn in UK. I ended up buying from Abingdon who got their kits from a UK supplier and I suspect it was Collinburn. It was called Cinnamon I believe, but was the Tan color I see Collingburn sell as close as I can tell. The color is beautiful and the leather is fine and seems more of a deeper grain than Moss. I am happy with it.
K E MURPHY

This thread was discussed between 29/04/2014 and 10/05/2014

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