MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Is it possible?

After letting my 55 TF 1500 sit for almost 30 years on a flat rear tire, it appears that the leaf spring has been affected by the constant tilt. Now that I have completed much of the work, installed the engine and drive train, and have the car sitting on four good tires, it appears to still lean to the side where the tire was flat for all those years. Putting the car on jack stands, supporting the frame, makes the car level.
I made the mistake of putting new leaf springs on my A a few years ago, and the ride height of the car was never the same. Seems the new springs made the rear of the car sit too high. I found this out after disposing of the old springs, which were really in pretty good shape.
Is there anything I can do, short of new springs, that might correct the tilt?
Cleve

Clive, if you can find a business that repairs springs in your area, you will be dollars(or pounds) ahead. The springs can be repaired. Perhaps try googling for spring repair or restoration.
Mwhitt

Cleve, if the problem were in the spring, I would think that the lean would be opposite the position of the formerly flat tire. It might be worthwhile to take some measurements to make sure the frame is not twisted. The workshop manual has a section on chassis measurements and corrections.

P.S. I put some replacement Moss springs on my TF 1500 and the fit is good, and the car sits level. The replacement springs are not exactly constructed as original, since they are riveted together instead of bolted. FWIW, the Moss springs exactly matched what I took off my car, but I don't think they were original springs.
Mark B.

Cleve,
Quite a bit of work but try this - remove both rear leaf springs and lay side by side to check for sag. Assuming one will be 'flatter' than the other it cam be reset by stripping down to single leaves and welting them with a 2lb hammer on an anvil. It's a very slow job the set takes a lot of bashing to change it. You will need a good pair of ear muffs and a strong right arm. A few pints of Guinness also helps. When reassembling remember the little circular rubber washers at the end of each leaf. Certainly a sight easier to buy replacement springs, maybe a wanted ad on MG Enthusiasts web as an alternative to Moss?
A word of caution - resetting a leaf spring is a last resort - the hammering increases the probability of fatigue cracking.
G.D. Smith

Cleve
I think you can switch your springs. Mark them and then try moving the right side to the left side. If the sag is in the opposite side, from where the sag was before, then it’s your springs. If not your frame may have twisted from sitting all those years. As mentioned above the workshop manual lists the measurements to check the frame. You might want to enlist the help of a frame shop. Most body shops have them and it’s an easily fix. This might save you from ordering a new set of springs, only to find the problem still exists. Roger
Rodger T.

Hi Cleve, if the car was driven for a long time without a passenger the drivers side will almost certainly sag. You don't say which side is lower.

I doubt that the problem occurred while the car was standing.

It could also have a broken leaf that is not obvious to see.

Anyway, you will at least have to remove the springs to inspect them. A bugger of a job.

Good luck.

Paul.


Paul van Gool

Maybe you can get an indication of spring differences by jacking up the back of the car and measuring axle to chassis on both sides. Could the front springs have also been affected by the 30 year tilt?
Matthew Magilton

Sorry to leave off which side. It's the passenger side that sags, so it wouldn't be due to driving without a passenger.
If it were the frame, would it correct itself when I placed the car on jack stands and had all the weight sitting on the frame? I don't know how rigid these cars are, but it seems like it would be possible to flex it a little.

Paul, you say it a bugger. Is it any worse than removing the springs on the MGA? I've done that, and it didn't seem too bad.
Cleve

Removing the front bolt can be a pain, rest is easy. I recall the bolt head is lined up with the hollow crossmember tube and the bolt popped out and went down into the crossmember. Don't do that! Check the front coils also- hard to see the top couple of inches. You could put just the front, and then just the rear on jack stands to make sure which end was causing the problem. Doubt the frame would bend. George
George Butz

George,
Let me make sure I understand.
If I put the rear of the frame on jack stands, the body is level. If I have the rear wheels on the ground and the jack stands under the front of the frame, the body is level. How do I ascertain which part of the suspension is suspect? What would I look for when concerned with the front coil springs, other than a possible broken coil?
Cleve

There are one or two specialists in the UK who can recondition your springs, including correctly heat treat(harden and temper) the leaves. Suggest you get a quote and compare to new spring price. Telephone numbers can be found in various classic car directories.
Henry

"What would I look for when concerned with the front coil springs, other than a possible broken coil?"
Clive if the problem is in the front, I would also look at the shock absorbers, which form part of the front suspension. If one was in the extreme position for all those years it may have leaked its fluid, or even seized in that position.
Dallas Congleton

If indeed a weak or broken spring, I think the car would still sag toward the weak corner if one end on stands- but upon further review if squarely on the stands it may not- but easy to try. Dallas may be on to it with a stuck shock idea- front or rear. Make sure everything bounces and is no binding or sticking anywhere also. Measure between the top spring leaf and the frame vertically- with weight on, it should be the same for both sides- I think. If not, back to the broken/shot rear spring idea. George
George Butz

Try Brost Forge Ltd, London. 020 7607 2311. They have a mention in various MG websites, and specialise in reconditioning leaf springs. I would have thought there must be someone in the Birmingham area. Perhaps you need to establish the quality of new springs from the likes of Moss before going down this route.
Henry

Cleve, I had the same problem as you. The car appeared to sagging on one side at the rear. having the springs reset did not cure the sagging. I then decided to pull the front coil spring which I then discovered was broken! The coil spring is easy to remove and does not require a spring compressor. Good luck.
Shane Bowden

Shane,
I reckon you have got the solution
G.D. Smith

Cleve,
It is worthwhile to pull the springs off and look at the individual leaves snd other related parts in case there are any leaves broken. Here are the specs I wrote down from when I did my springs a while back:
7 leaves per side
leaf width 1.5 inches
distance between eyes (free) 42 inches
Curved length 39 1/2 inches
Free camber 4.1 inches
Laden camber 1/2+ inches
Working load 500 lbs

You are going to pull them eventually to rebuild or replace them. It will answer the question if one side or the other is faulty or has different measurements. If they are the same then something else is the cause of the difference in lean.
Cheers,
Rob
Rob Silverman

Dallas,
Since your idea was the easiest and least time consuming, I tried it first. I bounced each corner with all my might and they all rebounded equally, left to right. The front has more travel, or maybe I couldn't put as much down force on the rear as I did on the front, so it didn't take as long for the rear to settle down. (Non-scientific explanation)

To combine threads, I would like to mention that I just installed all new Lockheed brake cylinders and hoses, using silicone brake fluid, and so far, no leaks!!! I got a fright while reading a thread about winter weather and silicone fluid. I had to run and check. So far, so good!
Cleve

I didn't think it was a big deal to pull my springs. I took them completly apart, sandblasted them, and reassembled. I didn't attempt to keep the leaves together from one spring or the other, I simply took the right size and kept building up until I had a completed spring.

I used primer after sandblasting, and a satin latex enamel to finish, since I was reinstalling the rubber bushings, and I didn't want a reaction between the paint and the rubber.

http://mysteryship.photosite.com/MGTDRebuild/brakessuspension/?page=2

For pictures, you can set it on slide show from this point and see what I did. The flash made the paint look weak. I ended up rebrushing the latex enamel on to cover more of the primer.

You could pretty well compare the individual leaves with their opposite number if you go this route.

As for broken or week front springs, the workshop manual calls for 9.59 plus or minus a sixteenth inches free length, 6.44 plus or minus a thirtysecond when loaded to 1095 lbs. My front springs met the free length, and I never checked them loaded.

I hope this helps.

dave
Dave Braun

David,
What a nice set of pictures! You are doing such a nice job! Fortunately for me, I am not doing a restoration, but am merely getting an old car back in running condition. The engine is a brand new rebuild, and the transmission has very few miles on it, so the drive train is in pretty good shape. It’s all the damage caused by sitting that is causing me trouble.
Thanks again for the website and I will use it for reference.
Cleve

Aw shucks (as I kick at the dirt shyly) Thanks for the kind compliment.

Perhaps it is time to drive the car and see if everything settles in. You could loosen the bolts at the spring shackles first, put the car load on them and tighten them again, and then drive. It may take care of itself that way.

good luck,
dave
Dave Braun

Dave,
I meant that in all sincerity.
I’ve learned over the last few years, if I take things all the way apart, I won’t put them back together. I’m the kind of guy that needs to obtain a car that either needs paint, and has good mechanicals, or looks great and needs mechanical work, but not both. I work long hours, so when I have spare time, I don’t want to spend days trying to rebuild something with little to show. I need immediate gratification, or I get bored.
When I get through with this TF, it is going to look as if it were a well maintained daily driver for the last 50 years. Not a show car. I’m just not that patient anymore.
Your advice about loosening the spring shackle bolts might not be necessary. I have found so many loose nuts and bolts on this car, they may all be loose! I may have to drive it a little, and then retighten everything from the ground up.
I only wish I could do a job like yours!
Cleve

This thread was discussed between 10/01/2006 and 12/01/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.