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MG TD TF 1500 - Jammed banjo bolt

I have reached the stage of the carburetors in the rebuild of my TF and have a problem with trying to remove the banjo bolt that feeds fuel into the float chamber. It is jammed fast and has resisted all of my attempts to free it. The problem is that I am worried that I will snap the aluminium casting atop the float chamber if I apply too much force.

I have soaked the joint in CRC penetrating oil every few hours for a couple of days and each time I walk past it I give it a try but so far no joy. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can try to move this stubborn bolt? I want to check the filter is OK and do not feel comfortable to have checked and cleaned all other parts of the carbys and then having to leave this last part unchecked.

Your help would be much appreciated guys!

Bill Tutty

Hi Bill, you could try heating it. Carefully though, you don't want to melt the alloy.

The washers will be destroyed if they are fibre but that won't matter.

As the bolt is a different material than the alloy carbie top it should expand at a different rate and this might be enough to crack the seal.

Cheers,

Paul.
Paul van Gool

Heat is about the best approach at this point. If a couple of cycles of heat doesn't loosen the banjo bolt, heat it again and then rub a candle on the joint. This will often pull the melted wax into the joint. If that fails, then the remaining choice is to drill through the end of the bolt, then using a frameless hacksaw or a dremel too with a small burr tip cut groves in the bolt and break the pieces out. The good news is that replacement lids are available if it cracks or all removal techniques fail. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

It is possible that it is cross threaded in and if you should break it loose, the threads will be filled with aluminum on the bolt. The best penetrant oil that I have found is Deep Creep by Sea Foam. It penetrates anything and usually quickly. Also I have found tightening a little and then trying to loosen breaks things free. Otherwise another cover is in order.
Mwhitt

One more thought is that sometimes shock loosens. If you have access to an air adjustable hand impact (butterfly) start at a medium air pressure and see if the impact shock will loosen it. You can keep increasing the air pressure (increasing the force) until you feel uncomfortable. Slow twisting force will not break it loose. I personally would like this better on an aluminum alloy part.
tom

The problem is usually galvanic corrosion due to direct contact between dissimilar metals. I was lucky on my car, the banjo bolts came out after soaking with PB Blaster for a few days. Unfortunately, on one of the lids, the needle valve seat fell out in my had when I touched it with a socket. The other lid had hairline cracks around the banjo bolt that weeped gas when it was reassembled.

I hope you have better luck!
Evan Ford - TD 27621

A common technique in rebuilding aluminum bodied aircraft carbs is to heat the carb to 300 degrees in an oven for about one half or three quarters of an hour to make sure it's stabilized and up to temp. All the little brass set screws and such come out like they were greased.

Dave C
D Clark

Dave,
That's a very good idea, BUT you must be sure that the owner of the oven (wife) isn't home at the time!!

SPW
Steve Wincze

Steve
That's why I have an oven in the garage :-)I suppose you could use an outdoor Bar B Q.

It's also useful in baking enamel. Have not tried powder coat yet though.

I would caution against using a direct heat source like a torch on any aluminum part as there is no temperature control. Well I guess you could use one of those new IR (?) meters but that would be clumsy. Besides you really want to avoid any localized hot spots.

Dave C
D Clark

Dave,

Could I also recommend a dish washer in the garage. I recently needed to clean about a dozen ball and roller bearings for my prewar MG. I initially cleaned them with "paint brush restorer" which removed all the old oil and grease but I still wasn't happy with them so I put them in the dish washer and hey presto they came out surgically clean! this isn't a joke

Cheers


Jan t
J Targosz

My wife is going out shopping later today! I like the idea of using the oven to heat up the entire piece and using the differential rates of expansion to loosen the bond between the bolt and the cast top.
I had some reservations about applying spot heat to the casting so I will make use of my "window of opportunity" and see how it goes!
Bill Tutty

Bill, I had similar problem with TD,one call to
http://www.sumidel.com/ in Sydney and problem solved for a few dollars.
Gordon Wright

Well guys I tried the heating in the oven trick.
I was really stoked when on applying average force, the bolt turned (a bit stiffly) for almost one complete revolution - then suddenly bang - the aluminium top shattered into 3 pieces.
Looks like it will be a new one now. Thanks anyway for the advice. All I need now to really make my day is for my wife to notice a funny smell in the oven!
Bill Tutty

"the bolt turned (a bit stiffly) for almost one complete revolution - then suddenly bang - the aluminium top shattered into 3 pieces."

You've GOT to be kidding right?

Dave C
D Clark

Bill and others,

This thread has been very educational, at least for me. Everybody's input was valuable.

After all, isn't that what this BB is for?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Dave C - I'm sure Bill was not kidding. I was trying to get the banjo bolt out of a float lid for a friend and just about the same thing happened to me. That old aluminum is rather brittle and the banjo bolts cam be corroded in REALLY tight! I have run into the same situation with the filter plug in the low pressure fuel pumps, which is where I came up with drilling the bolt, then cutting slots in the edges and using a punch to remove the bolt or plug in pieces. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Hand on my heard, I report it as it happened!
Once the top was broken I was able extract the bolt and found that the aluminium thread had sheared off and completely plugged 2 threads. I guess that this was where the corrosion had taken place. I was able to pick out the aluminium filled threads OK so was able to save the bolt.
I have taken Gorden Wrights advice and asked Sumidel in Sydney for a quote for a replacement for the float top.
As an aside I notice that the two tops come in a LH and RH mold which surprised me as I would have expected them to be the same to keep the cost of fabrication cheaper - perhaps production efficiency was not at the front of the minds of those at Abington in 1955!
Bill Tutty

Bill,
Might be too late now, but you should have prepared in advance of the "oven trick" by having a bunch of chocolate chip cookies ready to go into the oven as soon as the carb parts came out! The smell of freshly baked C Chip Cookies is usually enough to mask the smell of the previously heated items!

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
SPW
Steve Wincze

Steve,
Thanks for the suggestion re the cookies but if my wife came home to the smell of fresh baked cookies that would sure make her suspicious that I had been up to something! She might even suspect that I had a lady friend visiting while she had been away! Such are my skills in the baking department!

Bill
Bill Tutty

This thread was discussed between 03/03/2006 and 04/03/2006

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