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MG TD TF 1500 - LED 7 inch sealed beam headlamp replacement?

Do any of the automotive LED suppliers make a drop in replacement LED sealed beam 7 inch headlamp unit? And if so are there positive ground versions?
John Quilter

The simplest solution appears to me to drop in an H4 conversion (usually quartz halogen bulb), then use an led H4 bulb. I imagine the wiring can be reversed for positive earth.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave, do you think the factory wiring and dynamo (says mid 50s TD) handle the voltage requirement of such bulbs?

Tim
TD12524
TW Burchfield

Yes, providing you don't go for the highest output. The original BPF bulbs were around 35W, so that is the max current demand I would recommend from leds. However, I would always recommend fitting relays for headlights, because you will always get a brighter output as a consequence.
Dave H
Dave Hill

There are several drop in replacement LED units for 7 inch round headlamps. You may not care for the looks of them though... Or the price; last time I looked they were $300/pair. Check trucklite. These are DOT Legal. H4 LED replacement units are not legal, nor are xenin h4 units. All would be neg ground but you could wire them for positive ground easily. A short would cause problems! Lastly, LED units will generally draw less power so draw is not an issue.
Geoffrey M Baker

I have not experienced driving with LEDs....but this thread perked my interest. As Geoffrey pointed out...you may not like the look. Most I saw were 'futuristic' with multiple lenses and curves. I did find one on Ebay(item number:322177906369) that looked 'standard'. Glass Lens....but a Drop in H4 LED like Dave H mentions.
Priced at $72.96

Power Consumption: 80 Watt
•Operating Voltage: 12V
•Amperage: 1.9A - 2.9A
•Luminosity: 8,000 lumen (High Beam) / 6,000 lumen (Low Beam)
•Super bright white 360° Beam Headlights which can replace HID Xenon and traditional Halogen Lamp
•Simple installation - Plug & play - usually in 20 minutes or less
•Maintenance free, Waterproof , Shockproof
•Warranty 2 years

Mike
TF-8257



M Brand

The make to buy is Philips. I say to watch the current demand because although leds are far more efficient than other bulbs, some of these products have phenomenally high output in lumens (and wattage equivalent to a quartz halogen bulb).
Dave H
Dave Hill

Looking at the Ebay items, 2.9A on high beam would be about 34W, so 2 would not be 80W, unless electricity has changed as I got older? Quite possible. 360 deg beam, you can get everything now!

They do look good though.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

I thought they looked pretty good also. But when I saw that they are $146 a pair they suddenly became rather homely.

Tim
TD12524
TW Burchfield

These Stark LED headlamps are quite interesting but I am no electrician and wonder how one would wire these to a TD with a standard three prong female plug which is part of the wiring harness. Also how would one wire them if the car is still positive ground? I have asked the seller to confirm that the $72 price is for a pair which is shown in the Ebay photo.
John Quilter

Yes 2.9amp is fine. I agree that the cost is still something of a disincentive.
Dave H
Dave Hill


John;

Here is my take on your question.

The H4 bulb appears to use the same kind of socket as the normal sealed beam lamps I have. It has 3 pins, High, Low, and Common.

For Higher power lamps the newer sockets are ceramic to withstand the increased base temperature but seem to have the same pin-out.

At present, the ground or common Sealed Lamp connection is hard wired to the chassis. For the MG-T this would be the positive side of the electrical system. The LED lamps, by construction, would want to have a common connection going to the Negative side. The high and low beams would be internally connected for this.

You would need to remove the common connection, in the headlamp bucket from going to ground (positive).

You would need to add a pair of relays. These would be activated by the present switch which normally supply's negative voltage. The relays will supply positive voltage but will be controlled by the normal negative voltage.
The common point on the H4 bulb would be connected (permanently) to the Negative (hot) side of the electrical system. The relays, in turn would connect the one at a time, the high or low beam to ground.

The relays, if the wire size is properly chosen will reduce voltage drop also.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Welcome to the brain dim and scattered world of led headlamps. These lights mentioned above draw about the same current as the originals, but give out more light. How much more light? When they say 80 Watts they be talking about equivalent light, or these be equivalent to using imaginary 80 Watt normal bulbs. Then you never know if they are talking about one or both bulbs, but assume one bulb, though sometimes they will give current draw from one bulb and give light output (if they give lumens) for both bulbs. Clever, eh? Either way 6000 lumens on low beam will have everybody flashing high beams on you before they hit you head on due to temporary blindness. Color? 6000K is supposed to be white light, but Chinese makers just say whatever number they think people want, and it is easier for them to make bright lights that have a blue cast to them (bad light) and thats closer to 8000k. True white (best light) like from tungsten or halogen is white to a bit yellowish/white.
S Cole

For about the last 5 years, my wife's TD has run a pair of cheap Autopahl 7" conversions lights with HID H4 bulbs. Very low draw but very high output. Other club members will only follow us, they won't get in front. The driver side lamp covers the road ahead and minimizes light onto the oncoming lane, but we still get people flashing their brights. The passenger side light illuminates the right shoulder so I can spot the pairs of reflecting eyes from critters. Ann Arbor has called for an "open season" on deer killing to thin the herds. Only drawback is there's no "high beam" but these are about 3 times brighten than conventional brights. I can flick on the Harley fog lamps for brights if I want.

I have had HIDs in numerous vehicles for many years and keep retrofitting them to my cars. I'm trying out a couple LED headlight bulbs but they have an electric fan on backside so they're for brights only.
JIM N

I queried the seller of the Stark lights and here is what he replied:

This is for a pair of headlight housings and a pair of H4 led bulbs which have a three pronged connector.

So it appears that for a negative ground car this would be a relatively simple installation. As noted above by Jim B (thank you) it would be a bit more complex.
John Quilter

Here is a set that is advertised for Harley's, but also fits jeeps. May work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Harley-FLD-Touring-7-Chrome-Round-Projector-Daymaker-HID-Hi-Lo-LED-Headlight-/302071890279?fits=Year%3A2007%7CMake%3AHarley-Davidson&hash=item4654e34167:g:oeMAAOSwA3dYDd-p&vxp=mtr

$58,75 for a pair with free shipping.
Bruce Cunha

I put these on our 72 MGB from Moss and they worked great! I made no mods to the system and encountered no problems whatsoever. On a T series I would operate them through relays. PJ



Paul Jennings

The bulbs to buy are these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Philips-LED-Chips-160W-16000LM-H4-9003-HB2-Headlight-Kit-H-L-Beam-Bulbs-AY8-/201735791954?hash=item2ef863e552:g:34QAAOSwEzxYQSAs

1. Current draw is OK for standard wiring, needs no relays
2. the LEDs are identically placed to filament bulbs, which means the light pattern from the headlight is correctly masked on dipped beam
3. The standard headlamp fitting is H4 with a standard three pronged fitting identical to the sealed beam connection, and sill fit into any standard H4 reflector.
4, These fit completely inside the standard Lucas three adjuster headlamp bucket. they dont fit in a two adjuster bucket because of the inner bowl, so you may need new bowls as well.

I have installed these in a number of cars and can verify that they work very well. Other places sell this same bulb for £100 a pair so I always buy from this source

HID is much more complicated to install and not as reliable. The conversions I did to HID have all been replaced with LED. If you want a HID kit I have two available for the price of the postage

I recommend LED!
Dominic
Dominic Clancy

Absolutely. I am in full agreeent with that recommendation. If you have already fitted relays, these bulbs will work very well with them, and without relays they will still be excellent. The only drawback, if it is one, is that the brilliant white light will make it obvious that they are leds. However, safety first as well as safety fast.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I'm going to have to disagree. I believe that they are saying that a pair of them will be burning up 160 watts. At 13 volts that's in excess of 12 amps. The light switch isn't going like that. It had better be controlling relays. Not much generator current is left for the rest of the car's needs (5-7 amps if you're lucky). These sounds as if they are about the most inefficient LEDs around. A lot of the 160 watts is being wasted as heat. Bud



Bud Krueger

I've spent a lot of time on LED lighting. I built my own hi-power LED rear lamps, brighter than stock with lower draw. I also built an LED system for my motorcycle, with a homemade LED headlamp.

I wish to reiterate that any H4 'drop-in' LED is NOT DOT legal. The beam pattern on LEDs isn't even close to the patterns on incandescents. Truck-Lite and Phillips and others have built sealed 7 inch round units that ARE DOT legal and fairly expensive ($150 and up, per pair).

Anything else is highly problematical and I would not recommend, just as I would never recommend HID units.

That being said it is pretty unlikely you would ever end up being charged for illegal lighting - I doubt there has ever been a case. But DOT regulations exist for a reason - to make headlamps illuminate areas that need illumination - and non-legal headlamps are just not going to be as safe - plus you have the danger of being a danger to others with excessively bright light if it is aimed too high.

I would only ever use DOT legal headlamps, period.
As far as draw, LEDs use far less draw than a similar bulb, but sadly, most manufacturers have used that to increase illumination rather than lower electrical demand, so LED headlamps may well require relays and more generating power to run than an old, original bulb. I would read up carefully before making any purchase.

Lastly, many purists may not like the "look" of LED headlamps or the color of the light being output.
Geoffrey M Baker

The ones recommended use 25W.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Long live the original Lucas 700 Headlamp inserts with original globe ratings. If you can get your hands on some NOS units,they are perfectly adequate for night use whilst mixing it in modern traffic!!

Cheers
Rob Grantham

Rob Grantham

Notice nobody makes any BPF replacement led's for headlights? You can get halogen 35 watt that give off better light for driving than the originals, if they happen to be constructed right to work in the lucas 700's. Better off using correct or halogen in the 700;s and saving the illigal led blinders for driving lights.
S Cole

This thread was discussed between 22/12/2016 and 27/12/2016

MG TD TF 1500 index

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