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MG TD TF 1500 - Lower Left Door Hinge

I think I just won the 2015 DCO (Dumb Current Owner) award. I just finished cleaning the carb and fuel pump screens and generally tightening everything up on the TD in anticipation of a drive tomorrow. Then I took about a 20 mile drive ending at the local filling station to top it off with some 87 octane non-ethanol gas. Brought it home and stopped outside the garage to hose off the dust. Hopped in and drove it into the garage - notice the missing element - Should have been "hopped in, shut the driver side door and drove into the garage. Yup! The door caught the side of the garage door and snapped the lower left hand door hinge right at the tub. I can't believe it but it does not appear that any damage was done to the door but I need a new hinge. The Moss brass hinges (mine look like pot metal) are $74 each and I think I just need the lower left (401-980). It also looks like I may be missing one or two mounting screws.

Does anyone have any experience with the Moss hinges (I'd order through LBC) or know where I go to pick up my DCO award?

Thanks.

Jud


J K Chapin


Jud, I did a similar thing when my door flew open and hit the gate at my Moms home years ago, but my damage was bad. Anyway, from looking at your photo, it looks like someone used an upper hinge rather than the correct lower one in your application for some reason?.
If my memory serves me right, the lower hinges had only 2 holes drilled diagonally where they bolt to the tub. The upper ones had two bolt holes drilled vertically and one centered that accepted a wood screw at the tub. Check things out before you buy something that might not work well in your set up. Blessed that there wasn't more damage.
Richard Cameron

Here's a photo of a R/H upper hinge. Its setting up side down in the photo. Note the 3 holes that fit on the tub. I'm not sure what your broken one is---- Upper or lower? original ones were brass.


Richard Cameron

Richard, thanks. I noticed the different hole patterns and figured the same thing you did. The PO seems to have used whatever was at hand so I had three left bonnet catches and one right one. I'm thinking to just order the full set of Moss hinges and hardware tonight. Jud
J K Chapin

Richard -

Both of the upper hinges on my TF are missing the center wood-screw. I've inserted the mandatory toothpicks and SuperGlue, so I need to replace the screws.

Are they #14 wood screws? I bought a Moss hardware kit about a year ago, but the screw heads in the kit are smaller.

Sorry for the hijack.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Jud, I have an original hinge you can have.
I am in Carnesville, Ga, 35 miles from Anderson on 85.
Let me know if I can help. Larry
Larry Brown

Jud,
I'd just be thankful it broke as it did.
If not you could have had a whole other mess to fix - that's for sure.
It also looks like there was an extra whole drilled in the hinge? But yet no screw in it? Really strange.

Rod.
R. D. Jones

Larry, thanks. I just ordered through LBC a full set of 4 so that they will (hopefully) all match. If they are junk and I send them back I'll happily take you up on your kind offer.

Rod, it looks like the top hinges have three holes and the lower hinges have two holes and, yes, it looks like the one that I broke was a top hinge with an extra hole to provide the weakness needed to protect the car from dunces like me.

Jud
J K Chapin

When I did the TD I had to replace the hinges, and they came from Abingdon. They were brass and fit quite well. I painted them white, it is a white car (Old English White). When I did the TF, I also replaced the hinges. On the TF, the car is black and I just could not bare to paint the hinges, I left them brass.
I replaced the hinge pins with ones I made from stainless steel. I took a 1/4 bolt, and cut the shaft off at the right length (well above the threads). I used a bench grinder and a belt sander to grind and shape the bolt head to the proper dome shape for the hinge pin. Next I lightly peened the bottom of the hinge pin to keep it in the hinge. This was a surprisingly easy job.
I would recommend fitting the hinges before painting them. You will surely have to bend them a bit to make the door adjustment just right. Remember to have two clicks at the latch. Once adjusted, you can paint them if you wish.
David
D. Sander

Many years ago (pre 1978) the hinges Moss supplied for the TD/TF were made of aluminum with a brass finish. When you put the new hinges on you will most likely find the doors will need adjusting. The method I use is placing a folded match book in the hinge (sometimes more than one) and by closing the door causing the hinge to spread. It takes time but works. If you don't have it I suggest a turn buckle in the door brace it does wonders. I just put Moss hinges on the TF and found them to be just fine.
F. Driver

Thanks all. I'll be back on this thread as soon as the hinges arrive and I start having installation anxieties. Right now I'm planning on leaving the hinges natural brass (on a dark green car) so that's the biggest reason I ordered the set of four - the other reason is that I don't know and can't see whether I damaged the upper hinge. It seems to be OK but I'll know better when I get into it.

Jud
J K Chapin

Jud,

Don't kick yourself too hard. We all have our moments. I'm too ashamed to share any of mine though. Hope you get her back together without too much trouble.

Kirk
Kirk Trigg

You may find the replacement hinges are slightly different, and your doors won't fit correctly any more. Perhaps replace just the broken one first? There were repro aluminum with brass anodizing hinges out years ago, that may be what you broke, and that was likely a top hinge. George
George Butz

I bought 4 hinges from B&G and they are all brass, fit well, but I had to make up shims to get the doors to work properly. A job I don't envy anyone doing. I painted mine, but had to think hard before doing so, as I hated to cover up brass with paint. Brass is supposed to be polished. PJ
Paul S Jennings

The most important thing is to ensure the top and bottom hinge pins are in perfect alignment otherwise each hinge will fight against its pair as you open the door and cause twisting. Bending the flaps can make this worse. The easiest way is to remove both pins and replace them with a temporary straight rod. If you attach one flap to either the body or door you can then measure the thickness of shims necessary to maintain the alignment. I found I needed to taper the shims for a good fit.


Jan T
J Targosz

Jan,

I had always imagined that if I ever did my hinges, that alignment between them would be important. I had arrived at a similar solution as you did with a rod between them. What material did you use for shim stock?

Alex
Alex Waugh

Hi Alex,

I used hard plastic for the shims recovered from the lid of an old recycling box. This will not rust or react with the body. I made thin ones from a plastic one gallon oil container. I attach a photo showing how well the door fits and that's without the catch fitted to pull it in. The rust stain is from a washer left on the wing. I like the rod through both hinges since you can actually measure what's needed. Otherwise it is a bit of hit and miss.

Jan T


J Targosz

This is the time to properly adjust the hinges for a perfect fit. To widen the gap, close the door with a piece of pine jammed in to the hinge. To narrow the gap, bend the hinge by hitting it with a two by four with a mallet against the hinge.
I have never seen hinges shimmed from the factory. I have removed shims and successfully adjusted the doors on a number of cars, successfully achieving a good door gap, and achieving a latch with two clicks.
David
D. Sander

Hi David,

' don't see how a bang with a hammer will work. If you hit it hard enough you will reduce the diameter of the bend but put put the pivot points out of alignment. The fit may be OK with the door shut but it will twist as it is opened, putting a strain on the door frame.

Cheers

Jan T
J Targosz

Ideally the hinge should be in a vise, but I have hit them on the car. Often the hinges have been bent open too wide, with too much of a gap. I use a two by four to keep the soft brass from getting a hammer whack ding.
The hinges can be bent back with just the vise, but I have had to resort to bending them with the hammer and two by four as well.
Another measurement is the location of the hinge pin. Sometimes, the hinge needs to be bent, increasing the arc of the bend in the hinge to move the pin closer to the car.
Door adjustment on these cars often does not look pretty, but the end result is worth it.
David
D. Sander

Update: The Moss (I assume) hinges that I ordered through LBC arrived yesterday. They are solid brass, quite heavy and seem to be quite satisfactory. They are not highly polished but ultimately they will get painted. They are also quite stiff. Pic, less the one I installed, attached. Jud


J K Chapin

I got home last night around 8, we have a Blue Ridge Parkway drive planned for Saturday, so it was off to the shop to see hat removal of the broken hinge and installation of the new hinge was going to entail. As you know, the hinges are held in place by flat-head machine screws through the door pillar and through the door frame. Getting to the nuts on the inside of the tub and the inside o the door required removing the interior panels which requires removing the side curtain hardware and the hood frame (glad I can separate the hood canvas from the frame and from the tub).

Once the panels were out of the way and the broken hinge pieces were removed, it was gratifyingly simple to just line the new hinge up, stick the screws through the holes, add the washers, and spin the nuts on. Well, simple but not totally easy. First, getting my fat fingers through the little square sharp edged hole in the tub wile holding the nut and then blindly getting it started without cross threading it (Peter, I think I turned the screw backwards to get the threads aligned more than I ultimately turned it forward) was challenging but doable.

Because I wanted to get the harder part out of the way first I did the hinge to tub attachment first. Wrong-a-mondo. With the hinge attached to the tub and the door check still attached and functioning, it is impossible to open the door far enough to get a straight shot at the holes with the long machine screws provided. I didn't want to undo and redo the attachment to the tub so I turned to my trusty hack saw an shortened the screw by about 3/8" and was able to line it up sufficiently to get it through the hole. With the interior door panel off, access to put the washes and nuts on the screws was easy.

The new unpainted hinge sticks out like a sore thumb but it works. Jud


J K Chapin

I don't know that the door was perfectly aligned before I broke the danged hinge but with the new hinge it sags in the front just a bit. By pulling up on the front of the door just a bit the latch lines up with the striker plate and the door secures shut (two clicks) nicely. Nonetheless, after we get back from the drive I plan on reinstalling the lower hinge with a plastic shim cut from a storage container to slightly raise the front. I guess I'll also have to get it painted green since I don't plan on having the car painted any time soon. Jud


J K Chapin

This thread was discussed between 03/04/2015 and 10/04/2015

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